BlueDreams

FWIW I fall somewhere in the middle of this. I used to watch some of Hanson. I liked several of the debates. But I did get turned off when the debates and dialogue focused on social issues. In there I can certainly see the gate keeping orientation that ttribe is point out. I don't mind and generally assume many hold different social views in the church body. I have a problem with said socio-politcal views are assumed to be more right or gospel aligned than others. And these were often that. There were a number that felt super srawman-esque. Particularly the ones where the argument he was against was formatted by him and then the only guests available were ones that agreed with him. Wasn't impressed at all by that I was willing to ignore one video....but at the time he strung up several in a row. And I don't enjoy watching things to perpetually be annoyed at it. He's allowed his space on the Internet. But there's others I prefer for a more measured approach. I may disagree with a couple points here and there, but I'm not annoyed or irritated by it. Hanson had a way that annoyed. With luv, BD

It's your list with your own choices. But I think there's a difference between something you do for yourself and something you share with others. I can see your point of view but think for a general list for others, it absolutely fits the definition. Of course I also enjoy their channel, even when I disagree with them. I find it comfortably in the Pro-lds side of things. People do latter-day saint differently but in also "pro" sort of ways. This channel is the epitomy of that to me. To me disagreement and even fleshing out arguments for or against a view isn't "ark steadying." That would take more proactive and consistent pushes than what i've seen on that channel. Ps. I don't really go into polygamy discussions at all. So it's not much of a temptation to debate it. But I have listened to almost all of their recent discussion on that. All I will say is that I usually disagree enough with common views on it that I've seen. Both more LDS conventional and less so. I also just don't care that much, since it doesn't have much effect in my worship or beliefs one way or another.

Probably so. Personally I think "ark steadier" is too much of a judgment call. It would be like If I pulled a few of the channels I'm not as much of a fan of and categorized them as "rigid thinkers" or "culture as gospel saints." Pro-lds to me sounds more neutral and fits the overarching banner of folks who ascribe positively within an LDS framework. Both of the sites I mentioned definitely fit that. Faith matters is run by active members (as far as I can tell) who quite often bring in other active members of the faith who tend to be more intellectual in nature (think Terryl/Fiona Givens, Carol Lynn pearson, Jennifer finlayson-fife, Patrick mason, etc). It may not be your specific cup of herbal tea. But it's still within the wide umbrella of participating church members IMHO. Make sense. There really are and it seems to have really blossomed over the last couple of years.

Quite the list! You're missing 2 that I frequent quite a bit that are fairly big: Come back podcast (37.8 subscribers) Faith Matters (23.6k Subscribers) Again, this list is more exhaustive than I would have been able to make....but thought you'd like 2 more.

This was answered already....but it's another cultural policy that hasn't been a real policy for years now. There were often mixed instructions on this coming through when I first was a temple worker I saw and heard this start to shift. I have no qualms talking about my undies to other ladies especially. I always wear undies for my period under my garments cuz anything else would be a hot mess. I usually wear my bra over my garments if I wear one. This is more for utility. It helps keep my g's in place and I buy ones that look like an undershirt to avoid another layer. Plus it reduces go often I need to wash my bra, elongating it's lifespan. I have no problem wearing it the other way though. Many women are stuck mentally though with whatever they were instructed to do. Either outright in the temple or by others after the fact. This can lead some to have unnecessarily strong opinions about treating them more like underwear or more like an under garment. In my head it can be both based on looser but more universal and more recent instructions/policies. I use them as both depending on what's most practical that day. As an aside. It's been a few days and I really like the new g's. I had a hot flash in the top the other day...and it was so much more bearable and shorter lived because of the materials wicking abilities. The cut leads to less figiting and fixing the garment on my usual outfits and it's made it overall more comfortable...even though I never really minded the other cuts for comfort. This one feels like a second skin. Close amd tight, but moves with me so I actually feel it less. The only complaints I have is that the nylon can be a little bit of a static fest on the slip style and the tops can roll up. I'm ordering a longer one just so see if that helps a little. But I'll definitely take this over my previous problems with G's. My husband got a little sensitive of the material by the end of the day, but he's hoping a run in the wash will help that because he also strongly prefers these over his usually sleeved ones. He's completely sold on the bottoms even though it took a moment to adjust to the tighter fit. I was reading in a comment on another site that this was years in the making and preparation. I'm grateful for it. I get that this is a sensitive topic for many who received a variety of uncomfortable messages around this and modesty for years. Including for myself. I also recognize it can be uncomfortable for other who invested and strongly believed in the policies as some variation of gospel truth or who believe in more constant standards in their interpretation of what it means to have a consistent God. But I think I'm choosing more than anything just to be grateful change came to meet the needs and comfort of members around the world more fully. With luv BD

Me too. It's one of the things I like the most about the church... But I can understand to some degree the lure to things like univocality. I was watching a show tonight with a fairly accurate depiction of a Catholic practice and I could see the appeal to a very sovereign ultimate authority vision of God. I can see that same draw in that in our church...the straightforwardness of it all that makes a clear and unwavering world in the midst of the chaos life brings. And I could imagine how doing change too rapidly or radically would likely not do well for folks who fit this category. I don't want a church that's in a constant cultural tug of war amongst it's members. So I try to be patient with those who seem to me to fall into this line of reasoning more. And try not to fall into my own pitfalls by assuming my vision of the gospel likely has its own pitfalls and weaknesses I don't see. It's not how I've done faith personally, so I probably naturally see the weaknesses to it more. But I can see the allure to it. Even at points it's strengths. With luv, BD

I think there's a cost we pay by assuming a level of continuity and unity in the church that's not really there and (IMHO) can't be there. This is part of the cost....we don't know how to dialogue and accept contradictions and change well. We're getting better at it, but it's not a natural language for many and there's still a lot of people who are invested in the more simplistic model of what it means for our church to be true. Either proactively by firmly wanting and trying to maintain it. Or reactively by only engaging in the church in this singular entity that's singularly harmful in one way or another. Both can be pretty problematic and emotionally tenuous from what I've seen. I With luv, BD

I tried a little of each of them and already decided I need a slightly smaller size for the full slip one. It's especially loose, which would have been AMAZING this summer, but is a little too much for me now. I really like the half slip for my skirts and dresses. I'll likely wear these with any dress or skirt I wear in the summer. It allowed me to basically move it to wherever was most comfortable on my torso. Since I still have a solid baby pooch due to diastasis recti, that's on my upper waist. Not a huge fan on the elastic waist, but I'll take it for the versatility. I'm not a fan of the regular bottoms I got. They only had regular and said they'd redone the sizing...but it's still the usual issue with me with the cut... it's too high up on my waist and squishes my belly in half. So I have to roll it down. I may try again when there's petites available, the fabric is still very comfy. The first thing I noticed was definitely the lack of armpit fabric. I didn't realize how uncomfortable that is until it isn't there anymore. I bought a pair for my husband and he's also very very sold on that alone. The bottoms for him look a lot like bike shorts and he was surprised to realize that even though they're snug fitting... they're also comfy. The fabric seems to be very fast drying though. I peeled off my sweaty g's from the hot flashes I'd had 20 minutes prior and put these on then immediately needed to feed baby. I leaked on them pretty heavily and in 3-5 minutes they were completely dry. So it's giving me some good omens for summer. That said I'll probably wait before buying too many more until the cross over style comes out early next year. They're better for breast feeding and I wear more v-neck tops. I'm also hoping they'll fit my chest better since I currently have post-baby boobs. These fit but they're definitely stretched and it messes with the fabric over my shoulders. Besides by then I might be down a size or three again. With luv, BD

I think both can be true at the same time. In the sense that there are people in the church that have interpreted it either way. I remember I had a friend who was certain after being endowed that she should only wear clothes that reach the knee or lower. I was a temple worker at the time and was confused where she got that from. I went to the temple soon after and listened careful multiple times....and still couldn't figure it out. So much of what we get from a church setting is interpreted from family, local, regional, and personal lenses that we just don't acknowledge enough as happening in the church. And when the general authorities more consistently hailed from the US (mountainwest in particular) it reflected that even more. With luv, BD

I think it's the sensitivity to the topic. I haven't had a moment to respond to others, but I can feel this topic hitting me more sensitively than is my normal. I think BB mentioned that the 2000's were when they went hard on modesty in how they taught it and that does fit my experience. My clothes were chronically monitored as a teen to young adult. Modesty as a topic bothered me. A lot of the talk and presumptions around it in didn't line up to my experiences. That's a soft way of putting it. I try not to bite people's heads off. But I can imagine others may have stronger reactions from experiences similar or worse than me. As an aside, I had another hot flash/sweats and decided to buy a few pairs to try today. The line was definitely there...but it wasn't crazy. More later. With luv, BD

It may be most accurate to say it limits choices and only caters to a couple of outfit options. Personally, I feel ugly in t-shirts. I have very wide shoulders on a slim frame and when I was younger I had a very very thin frame with long very thin arms. T-shirts made me look like I was anorexic and I don't actually feel cooler in cotton. I used to be able to wear the same clothes for years....until I got pregnant. I went from a 2-4 to a 6-8 down to a 0-2 then back up to a 6-8 to a 10-12 to heaven help me if I can find a size to fit my basketball they call pregnancy on my last baby (he was a big and long boy on a very short torso'd lady). This was all in a 7 year period and I'm 2 months postpartum now wondering what my new normal will be weight wise and trying my hardest to not buy or mend clothes until I'm sure I've stabilized. I've been doing heavy amounts of shedding clothes that I'm pretty sure I'll never be able to wear again due to permanent hip and breast changes, making some of my clothes as I really do not appreciate the current cosplaying my childhood trend going on right now in most stores, and saying goodbye to a few clothes that are just simply wearing out because the material they're made from is crap for long term use (I'm trying to replace them with sturdier material). For some people and climates, garments really aren't challenging. I like them in the winter personally, because they add another layer to the cold for example. But that's not everybody and it doesn't fix that other people experience them differently. Heck, i experienced them differently at different sizes and periods of me wearing them. I used to be less heat sensitive and didn't notice the extra layer. I used to be smaller and could wear different styles that suddenly didn't work when my size changed and the garments changed with it. I never got yeast infections until this pregnancy. I never had a hot flash or postpartum sweats when I first started wearing them in my 20's. I lived in northern parts of the US. etc. I think part of the reason it took this long to change them is because people who were less likely to have problems with them were often the ones designing them. It worked for them so it should work for everyone. But that's just not a good measure for if the garments is meeting the people where they're truly at. I don't expect garments to be perfect all the time. I don't expect garments to always fit every fashion trends. I don't think they should, if I'm being honest. But I'm still happy that there's more space and recognition that we are not all the same and there needs to be more wiggle room for those differences. With luv, BD

The light fabric tanks are more useful for overheating. I ran into the limits of garment with this for the first time truly when visiting Sicily in August. It was literally too hot for me on the streets. Which meant to avoid overheating I didn't wear my garments while touring during the day and wore the loosest linen I could find in the markets to allow my body to properly sweat. My SIL lived in a very hot and humid area in peru and when they talked about getting endowed in relief society, the biggest barrier to the sisters wanting to was the heat and wearing garments in them. There's areas of the world and the US where just a little more adjustability can make a world of difference. And with the garments as is, to make an outfit work with g's with women's clothing means needing layers. So I can often be wearing 3 to 4 layers of fabrics in the summer, making light summer friendly outfits suddenly very warm. When this happens, the garment layer often becomes a glorified sweat collector. Unless you can find just the right shirts that are already garment friendly. Which can become more of less available depending the style that year. As an aside, I'm also looking forward to getting my husband some to reduce pit stains. His garments would last longer if it were for that. I buy pretty expensive deodorant to help reduce them. No way will I get my husband to do that too. With luv, BD

Might sincerely be different times. I wear mine as consistently as seems fit. But what's on my list of "not fit" is definitely more than just swimming.

I think this is a topic I don't have any patience with when it comes to sadness about changes to. It probably didn't help that I just came off of being as big as a house with baby and finding myself overheating when temps went over 70 basically the entire summer. There were times I couldn't wear my garments at all and made several compromises to make them workable for even short periods during the day. Or that I still have had hot flashes post partum. Or spaz spotting. And chronic yeast infections. Or a plethora of lady issues that really could have been helped by the new styles rolling out. It was like I was getting a sampling of all the common problems women face with garments styles in a 6 month period. I would have loved an inch or two less fabric and skirt/slip styled garments. I'm not just happy. I'm excited for this. For all the women like me who would have had to suffer or compromise with the garment on the regular. I feel good for future me who's still very heat sensitive. And I feel no shame in admitting that I'm excited to be able to put on sleeveless outfits. I have an Etsy wish list of things I either want to buy to try to sew just waiting. I never enjoyed maintaining a version of modesty that was never something I really believed in to continue something I truly do. What I can say is I sincerely wish there was space where you could feel comfortable participating and engaging with temple covenants in the way that suits your interpretation of things while maintaining space for how I sincerely view and engage with the temple covenants. That's probably not feasible, but I do wish for you to have space to engage with something I think we both deem sacred. With luv, BD

It likely crosses city boundaries. There are 3 spanish speaking wards in Springville for example. One in each stake. Language wards are often not as geographically centered as are English wards. It wouldn't surprise me if the mapleton members go to either springville or Spanish fork stakes rather that a mapleton one specifically. Or if the article confused wards with branches or other small details tatted would make this clearer.

And I can still appreciate its significance/wisdom in a very different context. 🙃 Besides Star wars is known for it's universal spiritual/cultural themes around light and dark; good and evil. With luv, BD

Really appreciated this quote from one of the survivors that I ran into today: From this article

I disagree a little with @bluebell. I don't think it's not the "I'll kill you for your beliefs" it. It does play a part. But I don't think this would have had nearly the impact if it wasn't a) a larger figure within the MAGA movement who wasn't directly a politician and b) it was graphically video'd. Millions saw his death in detail and as much as we claim numbing to this....I don't think we really have. I haven't seen a single video of a child graphically being killed for any of the mass shootings that entailed children. Or basically any mass shooting, TBH. It makes it less visceral and more abstract emotionally. It's not right, but its human. So, for example....plenty of black men had been wrongfully or questionably killed by the police. A number of those were captured on usually grainy video (which was already increasing awareness and social rumblings). None had the prolonged and dramatic filming that Floyd's had during a time where people were even more online than usual. It made the experience more real. Even if all of these are equally real in terms of weight and loss. With luv, BD

The answer isn't found in talking or not. It's learning how to communicate with respect and dignity. To see humanity in what we deem as "them" or "other." To share our disagreements and concerns without losing site of people not like us. To take accountability and acknowledge fault on "our side" as easily as we can another. To understand different views. To avoid broad brush strokes. If we can't, then we'll perpetuate the cycle of violence we're currently stuck on. Kirk wasn't the first. He won't be the last if we can't recognize where our speech and actions go too far and lose sight of human dignity. With luv, BD

I think of her often when I paint. When her hands started to make it difficult to do so, she asked me if I'd want her oil paints and mailed it to me. She is/was a kind soul. I'm glad her struggle with dementia is finished, but she'll definitely be missed here in the meantime.

The algorithm informed me this morning that they're now also suing now too.. https://www.dallasnews.com/news/courts/2025/06/09/fairview-residents-file-lawsuit-challenging-lds-temple-permit-approval/ This reminded me of a book I've been reading and why it's no so hard to build in the US nowadays...and Texas is a state that supposedly easier.

Funny enough this is the example that makes me more empathetic to both ends in this. I do think people can be oversensitive about gifts that obviously show sincerity in giving them. BUT I also really don't care for football. At all. Even if Tom Brady gave said hypothetical gift to me, he'd probably get a canned smile while I'm thinking of ways to regift it to one of my plethora of brothers who likes the sport. Anyone who knows me, knows football ain't remotely my thang. I would question why in the world they give me this gift of all gifts. It also had me thinking of my mom....who is not a good gift giver. Either we tell her exactly what we want and she gets that or the money for it (not bad) OR she gives exactly what she would want for us, even if it doesn't match us as people at all. For example, she gave us once a BYU themed baby outfit. I don't really do college paraphernalia and my husband has some (justified) sour feelings around BYU. She knew this already because she also tried to "gift" us BYU themed truffles for our wedding buffet table thinking it would be "cute" sense we both went to BYU. I didn't assume the worse from her, but it did feel symbolic of general experiences with her that indicates for me that she struggles to really connect with me (and others) more deeply. Whether we like it or not, gifts can say more than we mean to. From what I've seen, even poorly chosen gifts usually come from good places. There is both a need for grace from the gift receiver to assume good intentions even if it's something we don't like or want as well as better care in what we gift to those we care about. With luv, BD

I don't fit into the category of non-lds/former. I do maintain a good relationship with family members that do fit those categories.... and I have seen both better and worse methods for engagement within family fairly close up who have varying degrees of religious engagement. on the first bullet point, it's hard to tell just from your description. I've seen it both ways. Where family members really were throwing some passive (or more overt) judgments and ones where the active family members became symbols for the religious organization as a whole and weren't a lot of the traits the other ascribed to them. Often it's a muddy mix of both. If it were me, I probably wouldn't have given them a book of mormon wholesale. I think it's sweet that you guys personalized it as much as possible and tried to share it kindly. There's a reason 3 out of 6 didn't take it poorly and 1 wasn't as strongly effected negatively as the other 2 who had stronger reactions. Each child is different and in different places with their comfort with differences of faith and faith experiences. To me, understanding well where they're at in their experiences is prelude to deciding how I talk (or don't talk) about faith with those who've left or aren't members. Some have left but still have faith in something or aspects of the religion in general. With them I talk more frankly about faith...scriptures I find comfort it, experiences, thoughts etc....in a way that invites them to share their differing experiences if they want to and doesn't expect them to immediately defer to mine. I have one sibling that I know triggers me more, and when he states something from his faith I try to take a curiosity stance to mitigate a potential confrontational one. Some do not share much value in faith-practice, but there's space to talk about it fairly casually. My other bro fits this more. I still engage with sharing something spiritual carefully, as I know there's still tones and postures that can trigger him. I usually preempt it in a way that gives him space to shoot me down if he wants to. In a number that I know religion plays a bigger sore spot, I don't engage at all on the religion/spiritual front, with only the barest of references given (things like giving context to some rando event that happened to happen in say a church activity or something). In all of these my posture is aiming to share with instead of share at. As in I want to have whatever I'm sharing be part of an open conversation and be relevant to how we communicate in general. I rarely talk the exact same way to any given person. And I don't share spiritual thoughts until I know that I have a good handle as to where they're at. I also make sure the basis of my relationship is not simply religion-sharing. That goes for someone I do share a religious affiliation with as those who don't. In all these relationships I have the benefit of not being a parent to any of the people I'm close to. I think its easier to tack personal concerns and angst about a religious experience onto someone who most represented the religion in their daily life. And the relationship with parents rarely fully shifts to one of peer. There's often still a degree of deference and caution in how much/what you share that isn't there as much with a peer, sibling, cousin, etc. It would probably take more direct facilitation to give them more space to express their frustration, empathize with it, explain your intent, and find a way to find a healthier middle more collaboratively. Lastly I don't think it's necessarily wrong that you don't want alcohol in your house. It may be something to contemplate if it's worth the emotional toll to maintain that rule or if there's other reasons that you may not want alcohol served that's not simply faith-practice that you can share with them. Some people may take it more easily when they know there's other reasons you're not a fan of the drink in your home. For example, I have several negative associations with alcohol ranging from a bad past relationship where alcohol was involved to a grandparent being killed when I was young by a drunk driver. I don't enjoy being around drinking. I'd also personally feel concerned about the space being dry for the son whose working on sobriety. I know having spaces free from reminders can be a needed reprieve when they're still working things out. But I don't expect a person at a meal to bend to my associations.... I just also don't expect me to bend to theirs in my spaces. It's your personal space, though. So at the end of the day, it's your decision on what you want in your house. hope some of that was helpful. With luv, BD