Work for the Dead

[clarkgoble]

14 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

You think 4 billion people will survive into the Millenium? You are an optimist.

Not necessarily but as I said if they reproduce at the rate of Mormons in the 90's then it wouldn't take long to reach 4 billion. In the 20th century you had the US population doubling about every 20 years. It doesn't take long to reach 4 billion if you're doubling at that rate even if the population was decimated by war. Even if you went from 9 billion to 100 million due to war (dubious but possible) you'd get back up to 4 billion within 100 years.

Edited May 30, 2019 by clarkgoble

[SettingDogStar]

I was just chatting with my wife and she agrees to an extant. I just have a hard time understanding the idea that the millennium, even  small portion, would be dedicated to sitting in a temple somewhere watching the presentation a few hundred times. I always feel like the temple, in its purest form, is meant for so much more. Even in the Tabernacle the High Priest seemed to often have an actually visitation and conversation with Christ. Not that a visitation can't occur in our temples, because they have, but it seems like there is so much we are missing.

[Hamba Tuhan]

15 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

That time can be best used as a time of meditation and reflection on the deep things of God...

That has certainly been my experience. I can't count the number of times that I have been carried away in worshipful meditation during the performance of rituals so familiar that I can quote them word for word, and then the revelation flows and God speaks, sometimes even in His own voice. I have never grown weary of the experience and can't fathom that I ever will. It's like going home each time.

[Hamba Tuhan]

9 hours ago, hope_for_things said:

Most concepts about the Millenium and the afterlife don't make a whole lot of sense when you think about them too deeply.  

I think they make perfect, beautiful sense!

[Calm]

29 minutes ago, SettingDogStar said:

I was just chatting with my wife and she agrees to an extant. I just have a hard time understanding the idea that the millennium, even  small portion, would be dedicated to sitting in a temple somewhere watching the presentation a few hundred times. I always feel like the temple, in its purest form, is meant for so much more. Even in the Tabernacle the High Priest seemed to often have an actually visitation and conversation with Christ. Not that a visitation can't occur in our temples, because they have, but it seems like there is so much we are missing.

If the Spirit is more directly accessible, I suspect part of what we will experience in the presentation will be a vision of actual creation....how could that get boring?

Or if angels were the templeworkers....hmmm....

---

numbers...1 million members worldwide survive or are converts pretty quickly.  They each do one name a year for the next 1000 (assuming that is not symbolic).  That makes for 1 billion names.  Add in growing converts, children born, members who love going to the temple and go at least once a month...billions and billions...

And if we are starting the last 100 years and not keeping up, an appeal from the pulpit around the world and all the Saints hit their local temple/endowment house sometime once a week, maybe youth do baptisms in the local swimming hole (I really hope water gets nicely cleaned up and places to swim are everywhere), etc....done in no time!  

Edited May 31, 2019 by Calm

[Hamba Tuhan]

17 minutes ago, SettingDogStar said:

I just have a hard time understanding the idea that the millennium, even  small portion, would be dedicated to sitting in a temple somewhere watching the presentation a few hundred times.

Maybe stop watching the presentation and start being in it? I think that's the clear and open invitation.

[SettingDogStar]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

If the Spirit is more directly accessible, I suspect part of what we will experience in the presentation will be a vision of actual creation....how could that get boring?

Or if angels were the templeworkers....hmmm....

 

So I was actually thinking something like that! I don't think the presentation itself is in real error but I don't really believe that we will go watch a movie every day in the millennium haha! 

However, along that same vein, is that while the video/presentation might be beneficial to us on this side of the veil is it needed for the Spirits on the other side? We symbolically wash now, why not "symbolically" go through presentation to speed up the endowment?

My wife and I thought it be interesting if they offered two versions. A 30min session that has the bare essentials if you have a lot of names AND a longer (maybe even a 2 hour one) version with more information and explanation. That way first timers would be able to get a lot of context for their endowments and other members could occasionally go through to get the info again. In this way you could go to the temple and get through a lot of names faster but still get them the ordinances they need AND benefit your own spirituality. 

I'm not receiving revelation nor do I want to tell the brethren what to do however we thought it would be an interesting concept.  

[hope_for_things]

14 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I think they make perfect, beautiful sense!

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

[Hamba Tuhan]

16 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

Clearly.

[stemelbow]

Looking forward to the day when the other human species get their ordinances done.  Cant' wait to see how that plays out.  Since non-African sapiens have some traces of Neanderthal DNA I wonder how their species relates to God's species.  God must have known beforehand that their species would go extinct.  It makes me wonder if their species represented something that God was against in the world before.  Did God create them in his image too?  Or did he and another of his wives create them and he didn't like them as much, or got tired and stopped producing them as much?  

[hope_for_things]

1 hour ago, stemelbow said:

Looking forward to the day when the other human species get their ordinances done.  Cant' wait to see how that plays out.  Since non-African sapiens have some traces of Neanderthal DNA I wonder how their species relates to God's species.  God must have known beforehand that their species would go extinct.  It makes me wonder if their species represented something that God was against in the world before.  Did God create them in his image too?  Or did he and another of his wives create them and he didn't like them as much, or got tired and stopped producing them as much?  

Maybe God is more Neanderthal than the rest of us, maybe like 10% where those other non-African sapiens may only have 2-3%.  Perhaps, when we're twinkled our DNA will change to match the optimal divine ratio of Neanderthal to sapien?  Or maybe God has other non sapien genes as well, but you have definitely opened up some interesting lines of thinking.  Maybe the non sapien genes represent children God created through concubines rather than full wive status partners?  Oh the possibilities 

[TOmNossor]

On 5/29/2019 at 5:59 PM, SettingDogStar said:

I've been going to the temple at least a few times a week (advantages of being a college kid with no job) and as I've gone through a few session I've had a lot of time to think. 

I've always heard that in the millennium, among other things, we will be doing work for the dead in our temples, this brought to my mind a couple of questions. First of which is that if the millennium consists of sitting in an endowment session for a couple hours thousands of times then, while I might be happy to help, I will be intensely bored. I LOVE the endowment and have gathered so much knowledge from its teachings, but there are times were I find myself wishing it would move a little faster. I've just started to wonder why we need to go through the whole presentation? Though I figure the covenants, tokens, and signs may need to be given by proxy the spirits who will accept the ordinances can get the story from the spirits in Heaven (maybe Adam himself! Though I think he may already be very resurrected.).

To add to that if we only need to do the ordinances for those who have accepted baptism and such in the spirit world why go through the time to perform the ordinances for every single person? We know we won't get through everyone (not even close) So why not wait for revelation to perform an ordinances and then wait for the millennium when we will literally have angels getting us through the work quicker. Again I LOVE the Temple and the feeling of the Spirit that I personally have experienced and I mean no ill will. However it seems like a lot of the work we do is either not needed OR, if we need just work through names quickly, could be streamlined. 

Maybe I'm crazy but I'm curious about your thoughts.

First, let me say that I know what you are talking about.  I am occasionally tired and bored during the endowment.

Today, I participate in vicarious ordinances out of duty and love.  Sometimes the love is more intense than other times.  

Somebody may have touched on this, but this is what I think will be different.

In the future, we will love those we act for in a way that makes our love from parents and spouse today seem less.

In John 17:21, Christ prayed that His disciples would be One as He and the Father are One.  If we knew that the vicarious ordinance we were performing in the temple was potentially or truly salvific for someone who we love more intimately than we can now understand, would that change things?  If we felt their joy as if it was our joy because we are so connected to them, would that change things.  This is the communion we are called to.  This is the Oneness Christ and the Father have.

Charity, TOm

P.S. I think I may have seen folks who have approached figuring this out in the temple, but I, unfortunately, am not them.

 

 

[stemelbow]

6 hours ago, hope_for_things said:

Maybe God is more Neanderthal than the rest of us, maybe like 10% where those other non-African sapiens may only have 2-3%.  Perhaps, when we're twinkled our DNA will change to match the optimal divine ratio of Neanderthal to sapien?  Or maybe God has other non sapien genes as well, but you have definitely opened up some interesting lines of thinking.  Maybe the non sapien genes represent children God created through concubines rather than full wive status partners?  Oh the possibilities 

Hmmm maybe it was the fall played out over millennia as represented by the story of Adam and Eve.  The species of human that went extinct were more perfect, perhaps.  

[SettingDogStar]

On 5/30/2019 at 5:57 PM, Hamba Tuhan said:

Maybe stop watching the presentation and start being in it? I think that's the clear and open invitation.

I do! I love putting myself into the actual position as the invitation suggests. I've gained a lot, like I've already mentioned, from participating in the ordinances. What I'm mostly getting at is that I doubt the millennium work in temples actually consists of projectors and movies. 

[Calm]

I am looking forward to virtual reality endowments!

[JAHS]

On 5/29/2019 at 2:59 PM, SettingDogStar said:

To add to that if we only need to do the ordinances for those who have accepted baptism and such in the spirit world why go through the time to perform the ordinances for every single person? We know we won't get through everyone (not even close)

We do them now to keep us actively engaged in a good work that not only benefits them but us as well. The main reason is for them of course, but it also helps keep us active and strong in the gospel and promotes spirituality and humility in everyone who serves in this way. In this way can we help maintain a church with strong active members.

[Doctrine 612]

I have shared this before but I found out the new apostolic church also does baptism for the dead.