No Position on Evolution, yet most LDS are young creationists

[MormonVideoGame]

Most LDS believe humanity is 6,000 years old. According to Pew stats 52% of Mormons believe humans "Always existed in present form"... compared to 34% of all US adults, but at least Mormons do better than Evangelicals and Jehovah's Witnesses.  However, Mormons do better in college education than the national average, but I wonder how well Mormons do in Science degrees.

29% of Mormons believe in human Evolution guided by God, only 11% of Mormons believe humans "evolved due to natural processes such as natural selection,"

        

 

 

Edited February 25, 2017 by MormonVideoGame

[thesometimesaint]

This has been addressed before. It largely depends on how the question is phrased. In the broadest possible sense I'm a Creationist. I believe God did it. Science tells me how he did it.

SEE

 

[Danzo]

10 minutes ago, MormonVideoGame said:

Most LDS believe humanity is 6,000 years old. According to Pew stats 52% of Mormons believe humans "Always existed in present form". The US average is 34%, but at least Mormons do better than Evangelicals and Jehovah's Witnesses.  However, Mormons do better in college education than the national average, but I wonder how well Mormons do in Science degrees. There is no area in Utah and Idaho that is dark or strong blue.  

        

 

 

You would expect people with science and engineering degrees to live in areas with science and engineering jobs.

I don't see the point in getting an engineering degree and then moving to Toquerville, UT.

 

 

[MormonVideoGame]

2 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said:

This has been addressed before. It largely depends on how the question is phrased. In the broadest possible sense I'm a Creationist. I believe God did it. Science tells me how he did it.

Really? Please show us how God did it. You can get a Nobel Prize award if you explain how God did it, or at least show some evidence that God guided evolution. 

Anyways, only 29% of Mormons believe in Evolution guided by God. 

[MormonVideoGame]

39 minutes ago, Danzo said:

You would expect people with science and engineering degrees to live in areas with science and engineering jobs.

I don't see the point in getting an engineering degree and then moving to Toquerville, UT.

1. I never said Mormons do bad in Science degrees, I asked "I wonder how well Mormons do in Science degrees." 

2. Perhaps you need to read the Title "Percent of Bachelor's degree holders with a degree in Science and Engineering, by Metropolitan Statistical Area" 

It's not about Toquerville, UT!    

3. I don't think Oregon, Vermont, and Washington State are better than Utah, Utah is good for geology, but Washington State, New Hampshire, Vermont, and Oregon have a higher Science percentage. You can find dark or strong blue in Washington State, New Hampshire, Vermont, and Oregon, but not in Utah. 

Edited February 25, 2017 by MormonVideoGame

[Jane_Doe]

17 minutes ago, MormonVideoGame said:

Anyways, only 29% of Mormons believe in Evolution guided by God. 

This is a really false simplification of a complex and nuanced issue.  If you want to fully understand the issues and people's thoughts on the matter, you can't cartoonize it like this.

[MormonVideoGame]

1 minute ago, Jane_Doe said:

This is a really false simplification of a complex and nuanced issue.  If you want to fully understand the issues and people's thoughts on the matter, you can't cartoonize it like this.

I know there are many interpretations and ideas about God and Evolution, but according to Pew data 29% of Mormons believe in Evolution guided by God. 

[MormonVideoGame]

I am out of here 

[Jane_Doe]

1 minute ago, MormonVideoGame said:

I know there are many interpretations and ideas about God and Evolution, but according to Pew data 29% of Mormons believe in Evolution guided by God. 

Do you have a copy of the survey questions and the order in which they were asked?  Because it is VERY easy for a single/few questions to cartoonize things (particularly when many people don't understand the theory of evolution).  

[Rain]

18 minutes ago, MormonVideoGame said:

Really? Please show us how God did it. You can get a Nobel Prize award if you explain how God did it, or at least show some evidence that God guided evolution. 

Anyways, only 29% of Mormons believe in Evolution guided by God. 

I thought about that as I saw the last map with CA having a high percentage of science/engineering degrees. When my husband lost his job 3 years ago we considered moving there because there were a lot of positions available. There were only 3 companies in Utah that needed his skill set and they were not hiring. 

So I get the OP's question, but the last map/numbers may not show what it might appear to show, relevant to the question.

[MormonVideoGame]

7 minutes ago, Rain said:

ISo I get the OP's question, but the last map/numbers may not show what it might appear to show, relevant to the question.

I agree the map is not relevant to the question, but I wonder if Oregon, Vermont, New Hampshire, and Washington State are better for Science degrees than Utah? 

Edited February 25, 2017 by MormonVideoGame

[Danzo]

23 minutes ago, MormonVideoGame said:

1. I never said Mormons do bad in Science degrees, I asked "I wonder how well Mormons do in Science degrees." 

2. Perhaps you need to read the Title "Percent of Bachelor's degree holders with a degree in Science and Engineering, by Metropolitan Statistical Area" 

It's not about Toquerville, UT!    

3. I don't think Oregon, Vermont, and Washington State are better than Utah, Utah is good for geology, but Washington State, Vermont, and Oregon have a higher Science percentage. You can find dark or strong blue in Washington State, Vermont, and Oregon, but not in Utah. 

I don't dispute your findings, however Washing State and Oregon have a High concentration of Tech Industry Jobs, which is where i would expect to find people with science and engineering degrees without regard to religious affiliation.

Washington Has Boeing and Oregon has Intel.

As far as I know, Utah is not known for its Tech industry Jobs.

I think you are attempting to find causation when there is only correlation. 

Science and engineering degrees would logically be found in areas of Science and Engineering Jobs, regardless of the religion.  If I were from Utah (I am not), and I had a Science or Engineering Degree, it is highly likely that I would relocate to one of the areas that have a high concentration of Science and Engineering Jobs.  

 

[MormonVideoGame]

13 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Do you have a copy of the survey questions and the order in which they were asked?  Because it is VERY easy for a single/few questions to cartoonize things (particularly when many people don't understand the theory of evolution).  

"Which comes closer to your view?" 

"Humans and other living things have evolved over time [OR] Humans and other living things have existed in their present form since the beginning of time"

Humans and other living things have evolved due to natural processes such as natural selection, [OR] A supreme being guided the evolution of living things for the purpose of creating humans "and other life in the form it exists today"  

It's impossible to ask the perfectly unambiguous questions.   

[MormonVideoGame]

22 minutes ago, Danzo said:

I don't dispute your findings, however Washing State and Oregon have a High concentration of Tech Industry Jobs, which is where i would expect to find people with science and engineering degrees without regard to religious affiliation.

What about Vermont and New Hampshire? I am not from Utah, I didn't know, but like I said the map is irrelevant to the question. 

New Hampshire and Vermont happen to be "less religious" so perhaps that contributes. 

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/02/29/how-religious-is-your-state/?state=alabama

22 minutes ago, Danzo said:

I think you are attempting to find causation when there is only correlation. 

I asked "I wonder how well Mormons do in Science degrees." because I don't have enough information to make a conclusion. So No. 

and it's just red herring to the topic, that is why I am going to take the map out of the OP. I made a mistake to post it.  

Edited February 25, 2017 by MormonVideoGame

[katherine the great]

I'm a biological anthropologist so obviously I am all about evolution.  But to say that humans have always existed in our current form is not necessarily false.  Even science can't agree on a single definition of the word "human" or pinpoint the exact time when Homo sapiens sapiens arose.  We can, however, say that our species did not arise from a single couple living 6-10,000 years ago.  Evolution is an incredibly messy process and with improved methods of genetics we are finding that there have been multiple species of humans on this planet and we often interbred with now extinct species (current technology can identify interbreeding with Denisovans, Neanderthal and a currently unknown species of Homo).  So really, a lot of it boils down to how one defines the word "human".  I personally include the archaics (Neanderthal, Denisovan and Heidelbergensis) as types of very closely related humans.  From that viewpoint I would have to say that our species evolved through natural processes.  But I also believe that this was overseen (not necessarily micromanaged) by a supreme being.  It is very surprising to me though that anyone can really understand biology and flatly reject human evolution. Our bodies are organic and part of this world even if our spirits are not. We even need inorganic minerals to survive, the combination of which are only found on our planet.

[clarkgoble]

Polls like this are pretty misleading. First off there's the well known phenomena that those polled are trying to understand the aim of the poll and answer in terms of that. Thus political polls have people answering questions they couldn't possibly know based upon whether it makes their political identity look good and their opponent's look bad. Not everyone does that of course. In this case evolution is clearly a marker for religious identity and not really about scientific or religious understanding. You can see this when these sorts of polls are compared with polls on animal evolution. The numbers shift significantly. (By 25% points)

[MormonVideoGame]

To all the Pew poll skeptics

A) LDS church uses Pew Data 

B) Yes the data is a little problematic. Why? because Pew doesn't take into account:

1. Low information hardworking Americans that don't have time (or not interested) to participate in phone surveys. They simply hangup. Low information hardworking Americans that have busy lives don't know much about Evolution. 

2. Spanish speaking Americans. Most Spanish speaking Mormons don't read LDS books on Science and Mormonism because there very few in Spanish, if any. They don't read BYU Books, or the Mormon interpreter, they only have Bruce R Mcconkie on that subject... Science and Mormonism. 

 I strongly suspect the real percentage of Mormons that believe humans "Always existed in present form" is much higher than 52%, the same applies to all religions too. Which is so sad. 

MD&D doesn't represent the general population at all. 

45 minutes ago, clarkgoble said:

 In this case evolution is clearly a marker for religious identity and not really about scientific or religious understanding. 

Pew Questions:

"Which comes closer to your view?" 

"Humans and other living things have evolved over time [OR] Humans and other living things have existed in their present form since the beginning of time"

Humans and other living things have evolved due to natural processes such as natural selection, [OR] A supreme being guided the evolution of living things for the purpose of creating humans "and other life in the form it exists today"  

 

Edited February 25, 2017 by MormonVideoGame

[Freedom]

I was not able to see the sample sizes. A pole is somewhat effective but once you start breaking it down as this one does you fall into some serious problems. They may have only polled 100 Jehovah Witnesses for example, and they may have all been from the same city. 

[MormonVideoGame]

3 minutes ago, Freedom said:

I was not able to see the sample sizes. A pole is somewhat effective but once you start breaking it down as this one does you fall into some serious problems. They may have only polled 100 Jehovah Witnesses for example, and they may have all been from the same city. 

As I explained above (just a minute ago), the reality is much worst. 

Edited February 25, 2017 by MormonVideoGame

[thesometimesaint]

3 hours ago, MormonVideoGame said:

Really? Please show us how God did it. You can get a Nobel Prize award if you explain how God did it, or at least show some evidence that God guided evolution. 

Anyways, only 29% of Mormons believe in Evolution guided by God. 

Read the science. What would that evidence look like if it wasn't what he wanted?

Again it depends on how the question is framed. Some 40% of all American scientists are Theists.

Edited February 25, 2017 by thesometimesaint

[Jane_Doe]

3 hours ago, MormonVideoGame said:

"Which comes closer to your view?" 

"Humans and other living things have evolved over time [OR] Humans and other living things have existed in their present form since the beginning of time"

Humans and other living things have evolved due to natural processes such as natural selection, [OR] A supreme being guided the evolution of living things for the purpose of creating humans "and other life in the form it exists today"  

 

You're trying to write a thesis based off two question where a person can only answer A or B, when people's real answers are easily options C, D, E....Z?  That's hugely flawed!