Any other LDS Freemasons here?

[flameburns623]

Am catching up on dues and petitioning for reinstatement. 

Grandfather and an Uncle were both Shriners. Grandad favored the Scottish Rite and my uncle favored the York. But he and my aunt were especially active in the Eastern Star. 

I  know Utah lodges would not accept LDS until 1982 ( alleged similarities between the initiation rituals of the Blue Lodge and Temple ceremonies). Anyone experience being rebuffed over that?

Hapoy New Year, btw. 

[Jeanne]

Very interesting..though I wouldn't know a lot about the free masons in the valley here but there is one.  Do you enjoy it??

[Benjamin Seeker]

Not a freemason, but interested in understanding more of the organization. If you have time: How do different sub categories of masonry function? Are they just accommodated by the regular masonic lodge? I'm guessing a lodge is typically either Scottish or York, at least here in the states? and then do subcategories of masonry (ex. Royal Arch) fall into the jurisdiction of a larger category? Also, what does a "chapter" of one of these subcatgories refer to and what is the right way to refer to the subcategories generally (ex. strains, sects, ??)?

[Marmonboy]

There was a guy on here several years ago when I was here before who wrote extensively on Mormons and Masonry. I can't think of his name, so I have no idea if he's still around. Greg Something, I think. He was a Mason and a Mormon, IIRC.

[flameburns623]

2 hours ago, Benjamin Seeker said:

Not a freemason, but interested in understanding more of the organization. If you have time: How do different sub categories of masonry function? Are they just accommodated by the regular masonic lodge? I'm guessing a lodge is typically either Scottish or York, at least here in the states? and then do subcategories of masonry (ex. Royal Arch) fall into the jurisdiction of a larger category? Also, what does a "chapter" of one of these subcatgories refer to and what is the right way to refer to the subcategories generally (ex. strains, sects, ??)?

Freemasonry defines itself 'a peculiar system of morality, veiled in allegory and illustrated with symbols'. Meaning that it uses dramatic enactments along with the common tools and skills of a medieval stone mason to teach members some nonsectarian lessons on ethical living.

There are sundry theories of the origin of Freemasonry.  The most historically likely, is that it began among stone mason's guilds in the waning days of such guilds. A guild is a craftsman's association, which among other things, set standards of skill for apprentices and journeymen workers, as evaluated by the Masters of said crafts.

In the Middle Ages,  guilds were held responsible for teaching their members the Faith as well as the skills of their particular trade. Masters in those often semi-literate days are said to have used the working tools of their craft to illustrate such lessons: a bootmaker might employ the leather, needles, parts of a shoe or boot, etcetera, to teach Gospel lessons.

Apart from this, guilds within a region frequently cooperated in regular morality plays for their communities.  The various extant passion plays with which many here might be familiar with,  are a vestige of such. 

Guilds also protected certain trade secrets of their craft. Certain "tests" were administed to those claiming to be a craftsman: the responses to such tests told the Master of a work if the applicant was truly a craftsman, and if so, how much training and experience they likely had. 

Generally, it is believed that stone mason's guilds began accepting honorary members, as the need for heavy stone construction fell into eclipse.  These "speculative Masons" were drawn to such guilds because stonebuilding required a fairly broad set of skills and knowledge, attractive to the rising tide of Enlightenment ideas. Also, because Masons were particularly secretive and protective of one another, dissidents and intellectual gadflies could associate with less fear of being denounced to Church or Crown. 

Blue Lodges are the basic unit of Freemasonry,  and typically the most familiar to most people. They are called "lodges" because stonemasons, travelling from sundry places, would build rude lodging in which to dwell. 

There are three true degrees in Blue Lodge Masonry. The highest degree of Freemasonry is the degree of Master Mason. One enters the Lodge initiated as an Entered Apprentice.  After study and rote memorization,  one is "passed" to the degree of Fellowcraft (journeyman), and after further study and memory work, one is "raised to the sublime degree" of Master Mason.

Each of these degrees involve the petitioner in some degree of symbolic enactment, whose purpose is then explained in a concluding lecture on what the candidate has just experienced. One can continue one's Masonic education within the Blue Lodge by staying active, participating in future initiations of new candidates,  and holding the various offices of a Blue Lodge.

However,  the peculiar way that Freemasonic history unfolded means that there are variants and development on the three basic degrees. These have been systemetized into appendant bodies, most notably the Scottish Rite and York Rite.  These are separate from the Blue Lodge organizationally,  and are optional bodies which a Mason may elect to join.

Scottish Rite "Valleys" enlarge upon the lessons of the Blue Lodge using the "Seven Classic Liberal Arts": geometry, music, history, etcetera. The Scottish Rite offers these in 29 numbered "side degrees", making 32 degrees total. A 33rd honorary degree is extended by invitation only to those Scottish Rite Masons who have exerted special contributions to Masonry or to humanity as a whole. 

The York Rite employs Biblical stories and images and is often styled the Christian Freemasonic Order. The York Rite is actually three discrete bodies: the Chapter of the Royal Arch, the Council of Cryptic Masons,  and the Commandery of Knights Templar. The Royal Arch is thought to have once been a part of the Master Mason degree, but has since been broken off from it owing to length.

The Council of Cryptic Masons recount the story of the building of the Second Temple,  when certain vaults (crypts) were supposed to have been discovered beneath the foundations of Solomon's Temple. 

The Knights Templar relate to an alternative theory of the origin of Lodge Masonry: that, after the suppression of the historic Knights Templar,  some renegade Knights fled to Scotland and suborned a stonemasons lodge as a cover story. This idea is best flashed out in John J. Robinson's book, Born In Blood. In any case, the Masonic Knights pledge to defend the Christian Faith, making this the only Order of Masonry which is expressly Christian.

In general, religion and politics are not to be discussed in Masonry. The lessons of the Lodges and appendant bodies are meant to reinforce and complement of whatever religious beliefs one holds. Freemasonry was developed as what we would term an ecumenical,  nonsectarian meeting-ground for conviviality and community service.  

Fraternal bodies once offered some of the elements of the safety-net we now take for granted: old age and disability insurance,  credit unions,  libraries, hospitals,  orphanages,  retirement homes, and such. Masonic bodies still do extensive charitable work, to the tune of more than two million dollars per day. The Shriners,  another appendant group, are especially well known for their circuses  and hospitals.  

There have been various spurious Masonic bodies over the centuries. Most notable was the Grand Orient of France, sometimes thought to have been the hothouse from which the French Revolution sprang. 

I hope this helps. 

[Benjamin Seeker]

THank

2 hours ago, flameburns623 said:

I hope this helps. 

This was fantastic. One last question: Do appendant bodies have their own meeting places separate from blue lodges, or do they share meeting places?

[The Nehor]

You guys are doing a terrible job of secretly running the world from behind the scenes. Please sort things out. Thanks.

Edited January 4, 2017 by The Nehor

[flameburns623]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

You guys are doing a terrible job of secretly running the world from behind the scenes. Please sort things out. Thanks.

Freemasons love this sort of talk.

They frequently logjam in trying to decide what food to serve, pre-meeting.

Ruling the world seems a bit of a challenge. 

[flameburns623]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Seeker said:

THank

This was fantastic. One last question: Do appendant bodies have their own meeting places separate from blue lodges, or do they share meeting places?

Scottish Rite Valleys have their own Cathedrals.

York Rite groups may have their own buildings, or may share a Lidge. 

Shriners typically have their own buildings.

The Eastern Star usually meet in a Blue Lodge. As do the DeMolay and Rainbow, (youth organizations). There are invitation-only bodies, such as the 33°: but I  don't recall the names nor know where they meet. 

BTW: fraternal bodies began a slow decline in the late1950's. From a maximum of four million, they now hover just above two million, worldwide. Since the late 1990's, American bodies have seen an ever-so-slight uptick in interest,  but with baby boomers dying off at an accelerating pace, this is only just staying abreast of attrition. Masons have begun mastering the use of technology and there are some pretty good Masonic vlogs, blogs,  podcasts, and videos out there. And pop culture use our imagery to some degree. I won't link to it, but a popular rapper has several songs which do just that. (He can be a bit vulgar). 

Some 'what is Freemasonry?' videos:

https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=bsWkHhcFXdE

https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=YBDHRvBpHlg

[flameburns623]

9 hours ago, Jeanne said:

Very interesting..though I wouldn't know a lot about the free masons in the valley here but there is one.  Do you enjoy it??

Yes, Jeanne. There are a lot of things which Freemasonry does which complement what wards do. Every Masonic body has various targeted charities they support: the York Rite give to cures for blindness, the Scottish Rite Northern Jurisdiction funds rrsearch into schizophrenia, the Scottish  Southern Jurisdictions act on behalf of hospitalized veterans, Blue Lodges have a litany of benevolent outreaches. 

I have already mentioned the Shriners,  whose miniature cars, circuses,  and hospitals are a well-known sight. 

Apart from that is the fellowship with members of the local and regional community.  For some, who are spiritual but unchurched, Masonic activities can be a substitute for religious affiliations.  For someone like myself, who is active, Masonry can ne an extension of my faithful church service. 

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, flameburns623 said:

Freemasons love this sort of talk.

They frequently logjam in trying to decide what food to serve, pre-meeting.

Ruling the world seems a bit of a challenge. 

Then at least tell your buddies in the Illuminati to sort things out. Or are you puppets of the reptilians? I can never remember......

[cipriano]

There is a book I had been anticipating for years. It was titled "Method Infinite: Freemasonry and the Mormon Restoration". Unfortunately it has been removed from the "forthcoming" section at Greg Kofford books. Bummer.

[Calm]

On 2017-01-03 at 1:50 PM, Marmonboy said:

There was a guy on here several years ago when I was here before who wrote extensively on Mormons and Masonry. I can't think of his name, so I have no idea if he's still around. Greg Something, I think. He was a Mason and a Mormon, IIRC.

Greg Kearney.  Good guy.  Knows everything you could want to know about Masons...and probably Boy Scouts too.   You can contact him through FairMormon if he is available.

http://www.fairmormon.org/find-answers

Long time ago, we had D Charles Pyle.

http://www.fairmormon.org/perspectives/authors/pyle-charles

But haven't heard from him for years though I may have just found his obituary from last July, iirc he was in Minnesota.  I suspect Robert likely knew him.

There have been a few others, but it seemed they were interested in joining or just beginners.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Calm

[flameburns623]

On Tue Jan 03 2017 at 0:14 PM, Benjamin Seeker said:

X

Edited March 10, 2017 by flameburns623
Cannot delete this reply.

[flameburns623]

I am now enrolled in my local Lodge AND restored to good standing in the York Rite. 

Reminder to those who don't know: York and Scottish Rites are "appendant" bodies which are supposed to enlarge upon and elaborate on the lessons of the Blue Lodge, or basic degrees of Freemasonry.

 

York focuses on the Christian elements in Masonry; Scottish Rite on Freemasony relative to the Seven Classical Liberal Arts, which were the marks of an educated man in Renaissance times. 

Eastern Star, Shriners, Tall Cedars of Lebanon,  DeMolay, Rainbow, and Job's Daughters are termed "adoptive" organizations which don't build on Blue Lodge lessons but cooperate with other Masonic bodies to complement the work of Masons in some way. 

[Calm]

Interesting, thanks.

[Tacenda]

http://www.wasatchlodge.org/publish/schedule-a-visit/

I've thought I might want to take a tour of this temple. 

[Jeanne]

4 hours ago, Tacenda said:

http://www.wasatchlodge.org/publish/schedule-a-visit/

I've thought I might want to take a tour of this temple. 

I would love to go with you!! 

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Jeanne said:

I would love to go with you!! 

Whenever you're in town!

[notHagoth7]

On 3/10/2017 at 9:51 AM, Tacenda said:

http://www.wasatchlodge.org/publish/schedule-a-visit/

I've thought I might want to take a tour of this temple. 

I toured the Provo lodge a few months ago.

The SLC one looks even more interesting. Drove by it a few months ago. Might just drop in for a tour Monday.

[Guest]

On January 3, 2017 at 7:36 AM, flameburns623 said:

Am catching up on dues and petitioning for reinstatement. 

Grandfather and an Uncle were both Shriners. Grandad favored the Scottish Rite and my uncle favored the York. But he and my aunt were especially active in the Eastern Star. 

I  know Utah lodges would not accept LDS until 1982 ( alleged similarities between the initiation rituals of the Blue Lodge and Temple ceremonies). Anyone experience being rebuffed over that?

Hapoy New Year, btw. 

I have had relatives who were Freemasons, especially my only Uncle of my Mother's side. I never looked into it, I am just not a joiner of anything, unless it is an association needed for my work or professional groups. I would have never joined the Church without a strong Spiritual witness. Before vecoming LDS, had many groups come to my door, seeking to teach their faith and joined none. It was just by chance that I read the BoM, and invited the missionaries to my home. I do hear there are similarities to Temple endowments and masons, have watched a few videos of it, beyond that...still not a joiner. Now that you are speaking of dues and back dues, I really don't understand that part. 

[flameburns623]

2 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

 . . . . Now that you are speaking of dues and back dues, I really don't understand that part. 

Fraternal organizations require annual dues as a condition of membership. If you allow those dues to lapse your mrmbershup also lapses.

[Tsuzuki]

I'm not a Freemason, but I am in Ordo Templi Orientis, which was originally connected to European Freemasonry before Aleister Crowley reformed it. A hundred years ago, Freemasons could come into O.T.O. at their equivalent degree, but it's a different system now. I recently completed the "Man of Earth" set of degrees, which is roughly analogous to Blue Lodge, Royal Arch, and some Scottish Rite. Lately, I've been thinking about joining mainstream Freemasonry to see firsthand how it differs.

 

Man of Earth degrees in O.T.O.
http://oto-usa.org/oto/initiation/

0° - Minerval
(Guest degree roughly analogous to the same degree in the Bavarian Illuminati)

I° - Man and Brother/Woman and Sister
(Roughly analogous to Entered Apprentice)

II° - Magician
(Roughly analogous to Fellowcraft)

III° - Master Magician
(Roughly analogous to Master Mason)

IV° - Perfect Magician and companion of the Holy Royal Arch of Enoch
(Roughly analogous to Royal Arch)

P∴I∴ - Perfect Initiate, or Prince of Jerusalem
(Roughly analogous to up to 16° in Scottish Rite)

 

 

Edited March 17, 2017 by Tsuzuki

[probablyHagoth7]

If some haven't seen this...

...a few brief thoughts on Mormons, Freemasonry, and Nephites: 

http://www.candlestickstudio.com/files/Freemasonry.pdf

Thoughts?

[VideoGameJunkie]

Are there a lot of free Mason mormons?