Terror texts in the Book of Mormon

[Calm]

Interesting article, useful I think…copying way too much of it.  For a short piece, it has many important points, imo.

https://mi.byu.edu/news-blog-section/alma-13-16-what-should-we-do-with-terrifying-scripture
 

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“In this book, my task is to tell sad stories as I hear them. Indeed, they are tales of terror with women as victims.” These are the opening words of a difficult and important book, Texts of Terror, by the biblical scholar Phyllis Trible.[1] Trible is a believer who honors the Bible as scripture, the source of the sacred stories that guide her life. She describes how she began to notice and confront passages in the Bible that describe violence against women--passages like the stories of Tamar and of Jephthah’s daughter, which she called “terror texts.” Precisely because she loves the Bible, Trible was unwilling simply to discard these passages as uninspired or worse. But how was she to make sense of them?

Alma 14 presents the grim story of the massacre of the believing women and children of Ammonihah, the most disturbing of the terror texts in the Book of Mormon

 

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One of the features of terror texts noted by Trible is how quickly the victimized women drop out of the story once the violence has been perpetrated. In this passage, too, the focus quickly turns to the emotional state of Alma and Amulek. And so I think it’s worth pausing for a moment to consider this experience from the point of view of the women themselves, to acknowledge and grieve their suffering.

 

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Until a hot wind kissed their cheeks and their voices drowned in the inferno’s roar. You can see why Alma, or Mormon, turned quickly away from the women and children, back to the experience of the observers. It’s too awful to imagine their martyrdom in detail. The only reason not to turn away, perhaps, is the reason that Trible offers: “to retell such stories on behalf of the victims could itself be redemptive.”[2]To try, tentatively, to reconstruct something of their experience can both memorialize their lives and draw from their suffering something good: our compassionate awareness of the innocents who still suffer.

To think carefully about the meaning of these women’s and children’s deaths is a way to honor how they lived. Last summer, several friends and I sat around a table and discussed this terrible episode.[3] The believing men had already been expelled from Ammonihah and stoned. What was the significance of targeting the women, the children, and the religious records in this way? It’s clear that, at least in part, the point was to punish Alma and Amulek by twisting, literalizing, and projecting their words about the punishment of sinners onto the agony of their innocent friends and family (see Alma 14:14).

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But it seems likely that there was a strategic purpose, as well. The Nehorites of Ammonihah wanted to eradicate this new messianic religion, and so they had to destroy both its seeds and its sowers. The religious records contained the word of God that would take root and grow in an open heart. And the women were the primary sowers of that word, the caregivers who guided the children’s earliest spiritual formation. Women not only give birth to the next generation, they also reproduce culture in their teaching and socialization of children. To eradicate the next generation of believers, then, it was necessary to destroy the records, the women, and the children.

 

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“We live by stories,” Phyllis Trible writes.[4] The stories that we tell with the conviction of scripture grow up into faith. This is precisely why the women and the records were destroyed in Ammonihah. And this is why we must handle the “texts of terror” in our own scriptures with the greatest caution. I don’t believe in tossing them out or condemning them as misogyny. I agree with Trible that it is redemptive to keep and care for these stories. They can awaken us to ongoing instances of violence and victimization. They can speak personally to those who have suffered abuse themselves. When the Spirit is present, to hear one’s own story in scripture can be the beginning of healing.

 

[Robert F. Smith]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

Interesting article, useful I think…copying way too much of it.  For a short piece, it has many important points, imo.

https://mi.byu.edu/news-blog-section/alma-13-16-what-should-we-do-with-terrifying-scripture 

...........................

All of which remind us again that we humans are the authors of Scripture.  Each account contains our perspective, which also means that other perspectives may not get the attention they need.

[Dario_M]

I'm not agree though. I think we should appriciate the book of mormon more. Nowhere in the book of mormon have i read any terror against woman. If there is even any terror in the book of mormon it is more against people of color. Since the scriptures claim that black people carry a curse, and that their color is a result of that. Wich i find ridicelous anyway, and maybe even racisme. That's the only think i absolutely don't buy from the book of mormon. 

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Dario_M said:

I'm not agree though. I think we should appriciate the book of mormon more. Nowhere in the book of mormon have i read any terror against woman. If there is even any terror in the book of mormon it is more against people of color. Since the scriptures claim that black people carry a curse, and that their color is a result of that. Wich i find ridicelous anyway, and maybe even racisme. That's the only think i absolutely don't buy from the book of mormon. 

No terror against women? There was the violent abduction of women by Noah’s old priests to secure wives by force, the description in Mormon’s letter in Moroni of the rape and cannibalism of female captive, and the burning women and children story told above. There are probably more I am forgetting.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Dario_M said:

I'm not agree though. I think we should appriciate the book of mormon more. Nowhere in the book of mormon have i read any terror against woman. If there is even any terror in the book of mormon it is more against people of color. Since the scriptures claim that black people carry a curse, and that their color is a result of that. Wich i find ridicelous anyway, and maybe even racisme. That's the only think i absolutely don't buy from the book of mormon. 

It is not promoting such terror if that is what you are concerned about, the Book of Mormon authors condemn such things when it happens in the story.  It happens in several places as pointed out by Nehor above.  Sometimes when we read, the first several times we miss stuff.

1) 7 And now I write somewhat concerning the sufferings of this people. For according to the knowledge which I have received from Amoron, behold, the Lamanites have many prisoners, which they took from the tower of Sherrizah; and there were men, women, and children.

8 And the husbands and fathers of those women and children they have slain; and they feed the women upon the flesh of their husbands, and the children upon the flesh of their fathers; and no water, save a little, do they give unto them.

9 And notwithstanding this great abomination of the Lamanites, it doth not exceed that of our people in Moriantum. For behold, many of the daughters of the Lamanites have they taken prisoners; and after depriving them of that which was most dear and precious above all things, which is chastity and virtue—

10 And after they had done this thing, they did murder them in a most cruelmanner, torturing their bodies even unto death; and after they have done this, they devour their flesh like unto wild beasts, because of the hardness of their hearts; and they do it for a token of bravery.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/moro/9?lang=eng#intro1
 

2) 1 Now there was a place in Shemlon where the daughters of the Lamanites did gather themselves together to sing, and to dance, and to make themselves merry.

2 And it came to pass that there was one day a small number of them gathered together to sing and to dance.

3 And now the priests of king Noah, being ashamed to return to the city of Nephi, yea, and also fearing that the people would slay them, therefore they durst not return to their wives and their children.

4 And having tarried in the wilderness, and having discovered the daughters of the Lamanites, they laid and watched them;

5 And when there were but few of them gathered together to dance, they came forth out of their secret places and took them and carried them into the wilderness; yea, twenty and four of the daughters of the Lamanites they carried into the wilderness.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/mosiah/20?lang=eng#study_summary1

3) 8 And they brought their wives and children together, and whosoever believed or had been taught to believe in the word of God they caused that they should be cast into the fire; and they also brought forth their records which contained the holy scriptures, and cast them into the fire also, that they might be burned and destroyed by fire.

9 And it came to pass that they took Alma and Amulek, and carried them forth to the place of martyrdom, that they might witness the destruction of those who were consumed by fire.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/alma/14?lang=eng#study_summary1

 

Edited January 18, 2025 by Calm

[Dario_M]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

No terror against women? There was the violent abduction of women by Noah’s old priests to secure wives by force, the description in Mormon’s letter in Moroni of the rape and cannibalism of female captive, and the burning women and children story told above. There are probably more I am forgetting.

Well...i've never read any of this in the book of mormon sorry. Maybe i was not paying to much attention at that time. My ward that i went to at that time didn't told me anything about that..at all. I don't know. The only thing that i've noticed and what has bothered me from the book of mormon was a part in the book that was about the curse of the black people. 

Edited January 18, 2025 by Dario_M

[Dario_M]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

It is not promoting such terror if that is what you are concerned about, the Book of Mormon authors condemn such things when it happens in the story.  It happens in several places as pointed out by Nehor above.  Sometimes when we read, the first several times we miss stuff.

1) 7 And now I write somewhat concerning the sufferings of this people. For according to the knowledge which I have received from Amoron, behold, the Lamanites have many prisoners, which they took from the tower of Sherrizah; and there were men, women, and children.

8 And the husbands and fathers of those women and children they have slain; and they feed the women upon the flesh of their husbands, and the children upon the flesh of their fathers; and no water, save a little, do they give unto them.

9 And notwithstanding this great abomination of the Lamanites, it doth not exceed that of our people in Moriantum. For behold, many of the daughters of the Lamanites have they taken prisoners; and after depriving them of that which was most dear and precious above all things, which is chastity and virtue—

10 And after they had done this thing, they did murder them in a most cruelmanner, torturing their bodies even unto death; and after they have done this, they devour their flesh like unto wild beasts, because of the hardness of their hearts; and they do it for a token of bravery.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/moro/9?lang=eng#intro1
 

2) 1 Now there was a place in Shemlon where the daughters of the Lamanites did gather themselves together to sing, and to dance, and to make themselves merry.

2 And it came to pass that there was one day a small number of them gathered together to sing and to dance.

3 And now the priests of king Noah, being ashamed to return to the city of Nephi, yea, and also fearing that the people would slay them, therefore they durst not return to their wives and their children.

4 And having tarried in the wilderness, and having discovered the daughters of the Lamanites, they laid and watched them;

5 And when there were but few of them gathered together to dance, they came forth out of their secret places and took them and carried them into the wilderness; yea, twenty and four of the daughters of the Lamanites they carried into the wilderness.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/mosiah/20?lang=eng#study_summary1

3) 8 And they brought their wives and children together, and whosoever believed or had been taught to believe in the word of God they caused that they should be cast into the fire; and they also brought forth their records which contained the holy scriptures, and cast them into the fire also, that they might be burned and destroyed by fire.

9 And it came to pass that they took Alma and Amulek, and carried them forth to the place of martyrdom, that they might witness the destruction of those who were consumed by fire.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/alma/14?lang=eng#study_summary1

 

Thank you so much for your very long storie Calm. So thoughtfull of you. I will read your post really carefully. But not right now because i'm in the (trekpleister) Store. And it's kinda busy at here. I will read it carefully when i'm at home again. 

[The Nehor]

The Bible is much crueler to women. The Bible does have a lot more women in it though so complicated.

[Dario_M]

27 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

The Bible is much crueler to women. The Bible does have a lot more women in it though so complicated.

Yeah but i'm not very interested in the bible in the first place. I am more interested in the Book of Mormon. And i can not remember that i saw cruelty against woman in the Book of Mormon. But is it not just so that the Book of Mormon doesn't even contains cruelty against woman in the contents? 

[Calm]

12 hours ago, Dario_M said:

about the curse of the black people

Black skin here is used mostly symbolical as it is in the Bible, not actual skin color (remember those they were calling “black” were Native Americans and not descendants of Africans as slaves had not yet even brought to the Americas).

https://scripturecentral.org/knowhy/what-is-the-skin-of-blackness-in-the-book-of-mormon

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In its Assyrian context, “skin black as pitch” appears to be a motif for death and destruction.16 Its reappropriation in Lamentations, according to Gideon Kotze, may not refer to literal death but instead could indicate that the people have become “dead men walking.”17 Likewise, the “skin of blackness” Nephi describes falling upon the Lamanites was not necessarily physical but was given in the context of some people violating the Lord’s covenant and thereby being “cut off from the presence of the Lord,” bringing upon themselves the sore cursing that Lehi had warned of previously.18 In other words, the Lamanites had simply experienced what Alma later calls “spiritual death” and thus their souls were in spiritual darkness (Alma 42:9).

 

Edited January 18, 2025 by Calm

[Dario_M]

8 hours ago, Calm said:

Black skin here is used mostly symbolical as it is in the Bible, not actual skin color (remember those they were calling “black” were Native Americans and not descendants of Africans as slaves had not yet even brought to the Americas).

https://scripturecentral.org/knowhy/what-is-the-skin-of-blackness-in-the-book-of-mormon

 

Ooh thank you for that piece of history. 

[Calm]

10 hours ago, Calm said:

and not descendants of Africans as slaves had not yet even brought to the Americas

I need to modify this a bit…Africans had not been yet been brought to the Americas at the time of the Nephites, skin of blackness and similar references would not have referred to them, even if it was physical skin color, which I believe it wasn’t.

If one doesn’t believe Nephites wrote the original text and instead it was Joseph Smith or someone else, then there were black slaves in the Americas by the time of writing. They arrived in the early 1500s in South and Central America.

[Tacenda]

On 1/17/2025 at 11:42 PM, The Nehor said:

No terror against women? There was the violent abduction of women by Noah’s old priests to secure wives by force, the description in Mormon’s letter in Moroni of the rape and cannibalism of female captive, and the burning women and children story told above. There are probably more I am forgetting.

Yes, it seems the BoM turned Bible, which is sad.

[The Nehor]

On 1/19/2025 at 11:34 AM, Tacenda said:

Yes, it seems the BoM turned Bible, which is sad.

The Book of Mormon does do a better job at suggesting or outright saying it is wrong.