General Conference talk on hearing the pure truth

[Kenngo1969]

24 minutes ago, OGHoosier said:

... Also I'm not really sure what he means when he uses the word "pure." The word implies an incorruption, a singular nature...but can't purity exist in the presence of impurity? If there is a gold nugget amidst gravel, isn't that nugget still pure? On what scale is the "purity" we're talking about here? Perhaps he was favoring poetic expression over analytic vigor? Who's to say?

 

While I agree with you that, since we live in a fallen world, striving to find purity amidst corruption, love amidst hate, peace amidst tumult, and so on, ad infinitum, may be difficult, I invite you to ponder these thoughts: Are you an essentially mortal being who has been sent here to have occasional spiritual experiences, or, as the Child of Divine Parentage, are you an essentially spiritual being who has been sent here to have a mortal experience?  As fleeting and as difficult to grasp as this might seem (to the mortal mind, at least: see 1 Corinthians 2:11), I submit to you that you are the latter.  And recognizing that identity, striving to keep it ever top of heart and mind, are the keys to having true peace and to a lasting change in perspective.  What do the Scriptures say cannot exist in the presence of something else?  Here are just a couple of examples. 

Fear and pure love cannot exist in the same heart at exactly the same time, for "perfect love casteth out fear" (1 John 4:18).  Have you ever experienced perfect love?  While, again, I am not suggesting that such a thing is not difficult in our fallen world, I submit that, while such experiences may be fleeting, and while they may be few and far between, that you have.  If you have never experienced perfect love for another human being, have you, at least, experienced the Savior's perfect love for you?   I would be surprised if you haven't.

Turmoil and peace cannot exist in the same heart at exactly the same time.  The Savior said, "Peace I leave with you.  My peace I give unto you.  Not as the world giveth give I unto you.  Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid" (John 14:27).  What is the word's peace?  The world would have you believe that you can have peace ... as long as the sun is shining, and there are no storm clouds on the horizon, and as long as things are going well for you.  But there are going to be days ... weeks, months, years? ... when it may seem as though the sun never will shine again, and as though there are nothing but storm clouds on the horizon, and as though things are going anything but well for you.  What do we do then?  Turn on the gas?  Curse God and die (see Job 2:9)? 

What was the Savior talking about when he spoke of that kind of peace, then?  True peace cannot depend on circumstance: If so, it would be the most elusive, the most ethereal, the most transient and transitory of all commodities in this fallen, tumultuous world of ours.  No, true peace can only be had independent of circumstance, by realizing our Divine Heritage, and by realizing that this is only the Second Act in a Three-Act Drama: the First Act was premortal; we don't remember it, but we must have faith that many things that baffle us now will make a lot more sense when that veil is removed; this is the Second [mortal] Act; and again, we must have faith that many things that baffle us now will make a lot more sense when we proceed into the Third [post-mortal] Act.  We came from somewhere; as baffling and bewildering as the mortal present is, we are here for purposes that transcend everything that baffles and bewilders us (see 1 Corinthians 2:9); and we're going somewhere after this.

And there are numerous other examples that, potentially, I could list, such as all of the "fruits of the Spirit" in Galatians 5:22.  And so on, and so on.

And, as loath as I am to take issue with anything said by a prophet of God (I believe I understand it, and I agree with it), in another way of thinking, another perspective, the precious ore that you're seeking isn't something that is "out there," something that is independent of you.  That ore is within you.  One of my favorite verses in all of the hymnody of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the fifth, from the hymn "How Firm a Foundation," Number 85 in the current hymnal (1985).  It goes like this: "When thru fiery trials/Thy pathway shall lie/My Grace, all sufficient/Shall be thy supply!/The flame will not hurt thee/I only design/Thy dross to consume/And thy gold to refine!"  Economic realities of extensive lettering on headstones aside, I would like that to be my epitaph.  One of mortality's main purposes (if not its principal purpose) is to refine the precious ore that is within us.

Now, what to do when one isn't exactly feeling that Divinity?  Often, I think my own relationship with the Divine is too oblique, too opaque, too much "through a glass, darkly" (1 Corinthians 13:12).  As often as I have "felt to sing the song of redeeming love," at least as often (if not more often), I have been led to ask myself, "Can ye feel so now?" (Alma 5:26).  In such times, I remember the Lord's counsel to Oliver Cowdery:
 

Quote

 

Doctrine and Covenants 6:

22 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if you desire a further witness, cast your mind upon the night that you cried unto me in your heart, that you might know concerning the truth of these things.

23 Did I not speak peace to your mind concerning the matter? What greater witness can you have than from God?

 

Whatever questions I have (and believe me, the questions I have are myriad; they are legion: there have been times [and there are times] when the Heavens seem to me to be absolute, pure, utter Brass), I cannot deny the times when the Holy Spirit has spoken Utter and Complete Peace to My Very Soul.  It's as though the Lord has told me, "Yeah, sure, Ken, if you wish, you can deny the 'Did-I-not-speak-peace-to-your-mind?' moments we have had together and to privilege your Brass Heavens moments over those moments.  You have your agency to make that choice.  Or, you can do the opposite.  But again, that is your choice."

 

[mfbukowski]

7 hours ago, OGHoosier said:

This thread has prompted me to think and engage with these words of President Nelson's, and in so doing, it has given me a valuable object lesson in these principles. I'll write it down here first, and then I'm probably going to go add it to my personal journals. 

Anyways, I was somewhat troubled by these statements of President Nelson's, as I find prophetic infallibility to be a terribly frustrating concept and my prima facie interpretation of his words seemed to imply a tacit endorsement of that idea. I was troubled by the totality of his statement in my prima facie interpretation; surely anybody would realize that not every thought expressed in General Conference necessarily represents ultimate truth? In a somewhat troublesome habit of mine, I began to cast around in my mind for how I, in my expansive wisdom, would have phrased the infelicitous thought better.  I puzzled over it a bit until I realized that if I phrased it as "what is communicated to you today and tomorrow is pure truth", then that feeling of totality, that impression that he was speaking about every word of Conference, seemed to fall away for me. That choice of words seemed to convey better the message that the Spirit will teach you pure truths...at which point I realized that there is no functional difference between "what is communicated to you" and "what you hear." In terms of an objective standard of meaning (a risible concept but let's roll with it for a moment), there's not a difference between them, not functionally. So the difference in what I felt the words meant, what they meant to me, how they impacted me...had to come from me, and I can't accuse President Nelson based on what goes on inside my head. So I shall not accuse him. That was my mind, in all its conscious and subconscious machinations, at work. In real time I saw your point about the imprecision of language play out. 

Fine stuff. 

Also I'm not really sure what he means when he uses the word "pure." The word implies an incorruption, a singular nature...but can't purity exist in the presence of impurity? If there is a gold nugget amidst gravel, isn't that nugget still pure? On what scale is the "purity" we're talking about here? Perhaps he was favoring poetic expression over analytic vigor? Who's to say?
 

For me, THIS above is right on the money.

My approach and that of the Pragmatists is that if two statements are FUNCTIONALLY equivalent in the results they produce, they are for all practical (Pragmatic) purposes, one might say they have the same meaning.

And yes, that can make poetic expressions equivalent to analytic expressions.

Suppose an ancient culture believed that God, the giver of life, was at the center of the universe, embodied in the sun, and his intelligence and life force went out and filled the universe.

I think the HUMAN SIGNIFICANCE of that belief would in many ways be equivalent in meaning to those who now look scientifically at the importance of the sun to humanity.

Does that make the religious interpretation "false"?

Of course not! 

It's just another way to understand the sun's significance.

[let’s roll]

On 10/15/2021 at 4:27 PM, theplains said:

I have a question regarding this talk.

Emphasizing that “absolute truth — eternal truth” exists, President Nelson, who is 
revered by members of the faith as a prophet, assured listeners during the opening 
session of conference that “what you will hear today and tomorrow constitutes pure 
truth.”

What of past General Conferences too?  Should messages supposedly from the Lord 
through His servants that were spoken at those conferences also to have been accepted 
as pure truth?

The reason I ask is because the church (in the 1928 GC) taught the Hill Cumorah and 
the Hill Ramah are the same place; where two great battles took place.

https://ia800700.us.archive.org/6/items/conferencereport1928a/conferencereport1928a.pdf

Jim

While participating in General Conference a number of things were spoken to my mind and heart which are pure truth.  I’m thankful that the prophet invited us to prepare ourselves to receive pure truth during General Conference via communion with Deity.

[Navidad]

I live in a small village famous for its pottery. The Greek word used for purity in New Testament is a compound word, roughly translated in English as "sun-tested." It was a pottery term. When a potter formed a pot, prior to firing it, he or she would hold it up to the sun and turn it, looking for cracks, crevices, or imperfections in the pot. In holding it up to the sun he could see the light coming through any imperfections. If the pot passed the "sun-test" it was fired. If it passed through the firing without breaking it was used or sold. Biblically speaking we are pure when we pass the "sun-test." Methinks few of us pass the test; hence our need for and joy in being clothed with Christ's purity and righteousness.