webbles Posted May 2, 2021 Posted May 2, 2021 1 hour ago, webbles said: Looks like the study is now available to the public. This link worked for me https://www.asanet.org/sites/default/files/attach/journals/apr21asrfeature.pdf I'm going to see if I can rank the denominations using the health statistics that the study used. On the 8th page in the PDF (which is actually numbered 241), there is a chart that shows how they filtered the GSS data to get the health scores. I used the same criteria (Ballots A&C and Attend > 1/year, only 2006 and 2012 responses) and calculated the health score for both men and women for all of the denominations that GSS has. If you want to do it yourself, the process is to first grab the RELIG variable, then replace the Protestant entry with the results from the DENOM variable, then replace the Other entry in the DENOM results with the results from the OTHER variable. I didn't go through the process of matching up the denominations between the GSS and the NCS so I don't have the Sexism Scale rank. The average is calculated as: [(Excellent responses * 4) + (Good response * 3) + (Fair responses * 2) + (Poor responses * 1)] / (Total responses). This is how I believe the study calculated it. Here's the responses from men: Quote Scale Religion HEALTH Total Excellent Good Fair Poor Average 1 Inter-nondenominational 4 0 0 0 4 4 2 Nazarene 4 0 0 0 4 4 3 Evangelist Free Church 3 0 0 0 3 4 4 Orthodox-christian 2 0 0 0 2 4 5 Other eastern 1 0 0 0 1 4 6 Other methodist 1 0 0 0 1 4 7 Luth ch in america 1 0 0 0 1 4 8 Presbyterian c in us 1 0 0 0 1 4 9 Church of God in Christ 1 0 0 0 1 4 10 Disciples of Christ 1 0 0 0 1 4 11 Wesleyan 1 0 0 0 1 4 12 Christian Union 1 0 0 0 1 4 13 Presbyterian, merged 3 1 0 0 4 3.75 14 Afr meth episcopal 4 2 0 0 6 3.66666667 15 Quaker 2 1 0 0 3 3.66666667 16 Churches of God(Except with Christ and Holiness) 3 3 0 0 6 3.5 17 Four Square Gospel 1 1 0 0 2 3.5 18 Jehovah's Witnesses 1 1 0 0 2 3.5 19 Christian 23 13 3 2 41 3.3902439 20 Jewish 5 10 0 0 15 3.33333333 21 United Church of Christ 2 4 0 0 6 3.33333333 22 Church of Christ 9 6 1 2 18 3.22222222 23 Episcopal 7 9 3 0 19 3.21052632 24 Assembly of God 1 4 0 0 5 3.2 25 Buddhism 3 1 2 0 6 3.16666667 26 Free Will Baptist 2 3 1 0 6 3.16666667 27 Methodist-dk which 5 6 1 1 13 3.15384615 28 Lutheran-dk which 6 4 2 1 13 3.15384615 29 Pentecostal 11 8 8 0 27 3.11111111 30 Lutheran-mo synod 2 6 1 0 9 3.11111111 31 None 28 39 12 5 84 3.07142857 32 Catholic 96 146 64 6 312 3.06410256 33 Presbyterian-dk wh 8 6 3 2 19 3.05263158 34 Southern baptist 18 34 12 3 67 3 35 Other baptists 5 3 5 0 13 3 36 Am baptist asso 2 8 2 0 12 3 37 Mormon 4 4 2 1 11 3 38 Hinduism 1 5 1 0 7 3 39 Evangelical luth 2 3 2 0 7 3 40 Evangelical, Evangelist 1 3 1 0 5 3 41 Other lutheran 0 3 0 0 3 3 42 Other presbyterian 0 3 0 0 3 3 43 Unitarian, Universalist 1 1 1 0 3 3 44 Moravian 0 2 0 0 2 3 45 Reformed 0 2 0 0 2 3 46 Apostolic Faith 0 1 0 0 1 3 47 Pentecostal Holiness, Holiness Pentecostal 0 1 0 0 1 3 48 Harvest Church 0 1 0 0 1 3 49 United methodist 10 29 7 2 48 2.97916667 50 Other 3 5 4 0 12 2.91666667 51 Christian; Central Christian 1 5 2 0 8 2.875 52 Wi evan luth synod 2 3 1 1 7 2.85714286 53 Am lutheran 1 4 0 1 6 2.83333333 54 United pres ch in us 0 3 1 0 4 2.75 55 Independent 0 3 1 0 4 2.75 56 7th Day Adventist 1 1 2 0 4 2.75 57 Moslem/islam 2 9 7 0 18 2.72222222 58 Christian Reform 0 2 1 0 3 2.66666667 59 Baptist-dk which 10 23 15 7 55 2.65454545 60 Am bapt ch in usa 1 4 6 0 11 2.54545455 61 Holiness; Church of Holiness 0 1 2 0 3 2.33333333 62 Congregationalist, 1st Congreg 0 0 3 0 3 2 63 Covenant 0 0 2 0 2 2 64 Nat bapt conv of am 0 0 1 0 1 2 65 Christian & Missionary Alliance 0 0 1 0 1 2 66 Spiritualist 0 0 1 0 1 2 67 Church of Christ, Evangelical 0 0 1 0 1 2 68 Faith Covenant 0 0 1 0 1 2 69 Full Gospel 0 0 0 1 1 1 And here's the results for women: Quote Scale Religion HEALTH Total Excellent Good Fair Poor Health Sum Average 1 Moravian 2 0 0 0 2 8 4 2 Christian & Missionary Alliance 2 0 0 0 2 8 4 3 Friends 1 0 0 0 1 4 4 4 Quaker 1 0 0 0 1 4 4 5 Religious Science 1 0 0 0 1 4 4 6 Life Sanctuary 1 0 0 0 1 4 4 7 Inter-nondenominational 1 0 0 0 1 4 4 8 Orthodox-christian 5 1 0 0 6 23 3.83333333 9 Pentecostal Holiness, Holiness Pentecostal 2 1 0 0 3 11 3.66666667 10 United Church of Christ 2 1 0 0 3 11 3.66666667 11 Buddhism 3 2 0 0 5 18 3.6 12 Hinduism 4 3 0 0 7 25 3.57142857 13 Presbyterian-dk wh 12 7 1 0 20 71 3.55 14 Unitarian, Universalist 2 2 0 0 4 14 3.5 15 Nat bapt conv of am 1 1 0 0 2 7 3.5 16 Apostolic Faith 1 1 0 0 2 7 3.5 17 Christian Reform 1 1 0 0 2 7 3.5 18 Disciples of Christ 1 1 0 0 2 7 3.5 19 Moslem/islam 3 3 0 0 6 21 3.5 20 Evangelical luth 3 5 0 0 8 27 3.375 21 United pres ch in us 1 3 0 0 4 13 3.25 22 Evangelist Free Church 1 3 0 0 4 13 3.25 23 Presbyterian, merged 2 1 1 0 4 13 3.25 24 Episcopal 9 9 4 0 22 71 3.22727273 25 Free Will Baptist 3 6 1 0 10 32 3.2 26 Mormon 11 10 2 2 25 80 3.2 27 Jewish 10 7 4 1 22 70 3.18181818 28 Lutheran-dk which 6 3 3 1 13 40 3.07692308 29 Assembly of God 6 3 3 1 13 40 3.07692308 30 United methodist 21 36 10 3 70 215 3.07142857 31 Church of Christ 7 5 2 2 16 49 3.0625 32 Pentecostal 10 19 6 1 36 110 3.05555556 33 Catholic 115 173 71 16 375 1137 3.032 34 Evangelical, Evangelist 2 3 2 0 7 21 3 35 Methodist-dk which 4 3 0 2 9 27 3 36 Advent Christian 0 1 0 0 1 3 3 37 Spiritualist 0 1 0 0 1 3 3 38 Free Methodist 0 2 0 0 2 6 3 39 Independent 0 4 0 0 4 12 3 40 Church of the Living God 0 1 0 0 1 3 3 41 Full Gospel 0 3 0 0 3 9 3 42 Mennonite 0 1 0 0 1 3 3 43 Nazarene 0 2 0 0 2 6 3 44 Reformed 0 1 0 0 1 3 3 45 Pentecostal Apostolic 0 2 0 0 2 6 3 46 House of Prayer 0 1 0 0 1 3 3 47 Christian; Central Christian 1 10 2 0 13 38 2.92307692 48 Christian 10 25 8 3 46 134 2.91304348 49 Other baptists 5 7 1 3 16 46 2.875 50 Congregationalist, 1st Congreg 3 2 2 1 8 23 2.875 51 Baptist-dk which 24 44 31 6 105 296 2.81904762 52 Wi evan luth synod 2 4 4 0 10 28 2.8 53 Am baptist asso 3 5 4 1 13 36 2.76923077 54 Southern baptist 18 66 26 10 120 332 2.76666667 55 Lutheran-mo synod 4 12 8 1 25 69 2.76 56 Afr meth episcopal 0 3 1 0 4 11 2.75 57 Am lutheran 0 5 0 1 6 16 2.66666667 58 Community Church 0 2 1 0 3 8 2.66666667 59 Holiness; Church of Holiness 1 3 1 1 6 16 2.66666667 60 Luth ch in america 0 2 1 0 3 8 2.66666667 61 Nat bapt conv usa 0 3 2 0 5 13 2.6 62 Other eastern 0 3 2 0 5 13 2.6 63 Am bapt ch in usa 0 7 3 1 11 28 2.54545455 64 Afr meth ep zion 0 1 1 0 2 5 2.5 65 Church of God in Christ 0 1 1 0 2 5 2.5 66 7th Day Adventist 1 1 1 1 4 10 2.5 67 Real Life Ministries 0 1 1 0 2 5 2.5 68 Presbyterian c in us 1 1 2 1 5 12 2.4 69 Jehovah's Witnesses 0 8 9 1 18 43 2.38888889 70 Missionary Baptist 0 2 0 1 3 7 2.33333333 71 Churches of God(Except with Christ and Holiness) 0 1 3 0 4 9 2.25 72 Other lutheran 0 0 1 0 1 2 2 73 Other presbyterian 0 0 3 0 3 6 2 74 Covenant 0 0 1 0 1 2 2 75 Primitive Baptist 0 0 1 0 1 2 2 76 Sanctuary 0 0 1 0 1 2 2 77 Native american 0 0 1 0 1 2 2 78 Polish National Church 0 0 0 2 2 2 1 79 Christian Union 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 The results for the church are: Men - Rank 37 with 11 responses that have an average of 3 Women - Rank 26 with 25 responses that have an average of 3.2 It looks like women in the church have slightly better health on average than men in the church. So even if the church is sexist according to the study, it apparently is not causing worse health for women. 3
Stargazer Posted May 2, 2021 Posted May 2, 2021 On 4/25/2021 at 8:07 AM, Robert F. Smith said: Yep. Scott has set his clock. I've been on this board just over ten years. So another ten years should be a piece of cake. Scotts and clocks aside, I for one do hope you're still on this board after 10 years! 1
Meadowchik Posted May 2, 2021 Author Posted May 2, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, webbles said: On the 8th page in the PDF (which is actually numbered 241), there is a chart that shows how they filtered the GSS data to get the health scores. I used the same criteria (Ballots A&C and Attend > 1/year, only 2006 and 2012 responses) and calculated the health score for both men and women for all of the denominations that GSS has. If you want to do it yourself, the process is to first grab the RELIG variable, then replace the Protestant entry with the results from the DENOM variable, then replace the Other entry in the DENOM results with the results from the OTHER variable. I didn't go through the process of matching up the denominations between the GSS and the NCS so I don't have the Sexism Scale rank. The average is calculated as: [(Excellent responses * 4) + (Good response * 3) + (Fair responses * 2) + (Poor responses * 1)] / (Total responses). This is how I believe the study calculated it. Here's the responses from men: And here's the results for women: The results for the church are: Men - Rank 37 with 11 responses that have an average of 3 Women - Rank 26 with 25 responses that have an average of 3.2 It looks like women in the church have slightly better health on average than men in the church. So even if the church is sexist according to the study, it apparently is not causing worse health for women. I think the gist of the study is that the women's health is worse in more sexist churches than in more inclusive churches or no church at all. Men and women can have different average health scores, but the question is whether there is a statistical relationship between health and other factors, in this case: church activity versus no church activity and sexist churches versus inclusive churches. In general, iirc, regardless of religiosity women have longer lifespans but lower self-reported health scores than men. IOW, the raw averages of men versus women does not tell us much about the impact of church activity. Edited May 2, 2021 by Meadowchik
webbles Posted May 2, 2021 Posted May 2, 2021 8 minutes ago, Meadowchik said: I think the gist of the study is that the women's health is worst in more sexist churches than in more inclusive churches or no church at all. Men and women can have different average health scores, but the question is whether there is a statistical relationship between health and other factors, in this case: church activity versus no church activity and sexist churches versus inclusive churches. In general, iirc, regardless of religiosity women have longer lifespans but lower self-reported health scores than men. IOW, the raw averages of men versus women does not tell us much. Right, the study is comparing across all the religions. But the correlation isn't perfect so that means that a few denominations either have no health differences or are inverted. And the church appears to be one that has inverted results. It would be interesting to study why some "sexist" denominations don't cause health differences and study why some "non-sexist" denominations cause health differences. Here's some "sexist" denominations where there are worse health responses for women: Quote Sexist Rank Denomination Responses Sexism Scale Female Rank Female Health Male Rank Male Health 62 Evangelical Free Church 770 2.28571429 22 3.25 3 4 65 Church/Churches of Christ 645 2.53333333 31 3.0625 22 3.22222222 69 Jehovah's Witnesses 1206 3.66666667 69 2.38888889 18 3.5 They are some of the denominations with the worst "sexism score". In all three, the women have worse self-reported health than the men. 2
Meadowchik Posted May 2, 2021 Author Posted May 2, 2021 20 minutes ago, webbles said: Right, the study is comparing across all the religions. But the correlation isn't perfect so that means that a few denominations either have no health differences or are inverted. And the church appears to be one that has inverted results. It would be interesting to study why some "sexist" denominations don't cause health differences and study why some "non-sexist" denominations cause health differences. Here's some "sexist" denominations where there are worse health responses for women: They are some of the denominations with the worst "sexism score". In all three, the women have worse self-reported health than the men. Again, though, the question is not initially women Vs men. It's women Vs women and men Vs men, under the different types of churches. Then they check to see if men's health is impacted similarly to how women's health is impacted. In no case is it about men's Vs women's raw averages.
webbles Posted May 2, 2021 Posted May 2, 2021 5 minutes ago, Meadowchik said: Again, though, the question is not initially women Vs men. It's women Vs women and men Vs men, under the different types of churches. Then they check to see if men's health is impacted similarly to how women's health is impacted. In no case is it about men's Vs women's raw averages. Ah, I see what you mean now. I'll guess I'll try and correlate the NCS denominations with the GSS denominations. I wish the study had those details. Once I have that, I'll be able to put the women's health and the sexism scale together and see how the church compares in that. I do think it is going to still be an outlier because the women's health score is really high. 1
webbles Posted May 3, 2021 Posted May 3, 2021 1 hour ago, webbles said: Ah, I see what you mean now. I'll guess I'll try and correlate the NCS denominations with the GSS denominations. I wish the study had those details. Once I have that, I'll be able to put the women's health and the sexism scale together and see how the church compares in that. I do think it is going to still be an outlier because the women's health score is really high. Ok, I went through the NCS denominations and GSS denominations and tried to link them together. In the below table, I have the NCS Denomination, the sexism scale factor, its original rank in the sexism scale (any time a number is skipped, that indicates a denomination that I couldn't match with the GSS), the GSS Denomination, Male and Female health scale rank and health score. The last column indicates whether it is "sexist" or not. The study wasn't exactly clear how to figure this out. It said that a score of 2 on the Sexism Scale is sexist and it said that a No on the Leader and Board is sexist. But the Leader and Board are a continuous scale from 1 (all yes) to 2 (all no) so I used 1.75 as the cut off. Quote NCS Denomination Sexism Scale Sexism Rank GSS Denom Female Rank Female Health Male Rank Male Health Jewish Reform (Union) 0 1 Jewish Reform 28 3.16666667 21 3.25714286 UU 0 4 Unitarian, Universalist 14 3.5 44 3 Buddhist 0 5 Buddhism 11 3.6 26 3.16666667 Disciples of Christ 0 7 Disciples of Christ 18 3.5 10 4 UCC 0 9 United Church of Christ 10 3.66666667 20 3.33333333 Evangelical Covenant 0 10 Covenant 76 2 65 2 Quaker 0 13 Quaker 4 4 15 3.66666667 PCUSA 0.01333333 15 Presbyterian c in us 70 2.4 8 4 Episcopal Church 0.07575758 18 Episcopal 25 3.22727273 24 3.21052632 Nazarene 0.08333333 19 Nazarene 45 3 2 4 AME 0.13043478 21 Afr meth episcopal 58 2.75 14 3.66666667 Pentecostal Holiness 0.18181818 23 Pentecostal Holiness, Holiness Pentecostal 9 3.66666667 48 3 Assemblies of God 0.25490196 26 Assembly of God 30 3.07692308 25 3.2 Jewish Conservative (United) 0.33333333 27 Jewish Conservative 20 3.5 51 2.93023256 Seventh Day Adventist 0.36842105 28 7th Day Adventist 68 2.5 58 2.75 Hindu 0.4 29 Hinduism 12 3.57142857 39 3 Christian Reformed 0.81818182 36 Christian Reform 17 3.5 60 2.66666667 Full Gospel 1.33333333 43 Full Gospel 43 3 71 1 Mormon 1.33333333 44 Mormon 27 3.2 38 3 Sexist Christian Missionary Alliance 1.6 50 Christian & Missionary Alliance 2 4 67 2 Sexist Freewill Baptist 1.64285714 51 Free Will Baptist 26 3.2 27 3.16666667 Catholic 1.78917379 52 Catholic 34 3.032 33 3.06410256 Sexist National Baptist Convention of America 1.85714286 54 Nat bapt conv of am 15 3.5 66 2 Jewish Orthodox 2 56 Jewish Orthodox 35 3 22 3.25 Sexist SBC 2.06866953 59 Southern baptist 56 2.76666667 35 3 Sexist Lutheran, Missouri Synod 2.18367347 61 Lutheran-mo synod 57 2.76 31 3.11111111 Sexist Evangelical Free Church 2.28571429 62 Evangelist Free Church 23 3.25 3 4 Sexist Church/Churches of Christ 2.53333333 65 Church of Christ 32 3.0625 23 3.22222222 Sexist Muslim 2.55555556 66 Moslem/islam 19 3.5 59 2.72222222 Sexist Jehovah's Witnesses 3.66666667 69 Jehovah's Witnesses 71 2.38888889 18 3.5 Sexist Some interesting thoughts from this: * Mormon has the best "Sexism scale" of the "sexist denominations". * National Baptist Convention of America and Free Will Baptist are "non-sexist" denominations that are surrounded by "sexist denominations". * The average women's health of the "non-sexist denominations" is 3.216281219 and the average of the "sexist denominations" is 3.096005556. That is in line with what the study showed. * The average men's health of the "non-sexist denominations" is 3.050728421 and the average of the "sexist denominations" is 3.086965811. Also in line with what the study showed. * The lowest women's health is actually a "non-sexist denomination": Evangelical Covenant with a score of 2. * One of the "sexist denominations" is tied for the highest health score: Christian Missionary Alliance with a score of 4. Quaker is the other denomination with 4. * The score for Mormon is about the same as the average women's health of the "non-sexist denominations". So, as the study showed, women's self reported health is, on average, lower in "sexist" denominations. But the church is above the average and is close to the average of the "non-sexist" denominations. 3
JustAnAustralian Posted May 3, 2021 Posted May 3, 2021 48 minutes ago, webbles said: So, as the study showed, women's self reported health is, on average, lower in "sexist" denominations. But the church is above the average and is close to the average of the "non-sexist" denominations. Which links in with what they also suggest. Membership in a "sexist denomination" could also mean immersion in sexist societal features outside church. 1
Robert F. Smith Posted May 3, 2021 Posted May 3, 2021 8 hours ago, Stargazer said: Scotts and clocks aside, I for one do hope you're still on this board after 10 years! Thanks, but I'd need the longevity of Russell Nelson to manage that. 1
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