He was arrested in Provo riot; now, he’s been arrested for storming of the Capitol

[Dan McClellan]

9 hours ago, Calm said:

I wonder if it ever occurred to him that his behavior would be used as evidence by some that the riot was caused by antifa or left wing extremists.  Probably wouldn’t have cared as he seems to be infatuated by violence (given what I heard him say on a video in the Provo protest and what is reported as on his video of the Capital riot).

I also wonder how those who were using him for ‘press’ reports will respond when they find out he was intentionally ‘making the news’ he was reporting to some extent.

BLM kicked him out long ago because he was always trying to incite violence and always came to everything armed to the gills. He had to start up his own org. The progressive movement in Utah has long been disgusted by his idiocy, and now he's embarrassing the state all over again.

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, MorningStar said:

Oh my gosh. He even showed the video with a commentary from himself and threatens to sue people who said he was arrested. Then he got arrested today. What a dummy! He so thought he got away with it. 

The FBI officers recruited in the late 90’s (who started out tracking the Unabomber, the Oklahoma City bomber, and that Neo-Nazi shooter) are like kids in a candy store right now. I got this from a guy I know and also the FBI press conference. Weirdly giddy but in a good way I think. A lot of careers will be boosted and the first round is fish in a barrel. A lot of people are disappointed at the low number of counts for a lot of the people caught early but I am guessing a lot more charges will be added as everyone starts to turn on each other. The initial push is to grab as many people that were inside the building as they can.

If you need a laugh here is a lawyer critiquing the lawyer of the guy who stole the Speaker’s lectern from the Capitol. Spoilers: He needs a better lawyer.

 

[Scott Lloyd]

5 hours ago, MorningStar said:

I just saw the part of the CNN interview with Sullivan and the girl who was there with him said nothing. Like she knew, "Oh crap. He is lying his head off." I watched a 39 minute YouTube video he put up today and it appeared that the cops blocking the door moved out of the way because he told them others had gotten hurt and he didn't want them to get hurt. 

I've never seen the inside of the Capitol Building and it brought tears to my eyes seeing the mayhem in there. It hurts so much that we can't pull together during a pandemic when so many people are suffering.  

Did they identify the girl who was with him? Was her name Samantha Darling?

[Scott Lloyd]

44 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I know of him. He is an idiot. He was involved in BLM stuff but after his first stupid stunts everyone just wanted him to go away. People like him are dangerous to protests. I heard some anecdotal stories of him being connected with some of the vandalism in the BLM protests but it is ‘third hand’ or more so take it with a shaker of salt. All the online “chatter” from BLM associated people about the 6th was “don’t go to DC on the 6th”. It was clear over a week before that there was a good chance of a lot of violence and some horrible plans were being constructed in the darker corners of the web and everyone knew that counter-protesting would almost certainly make anything that happened much worse.

I am glad they caught him. There were some legitimate media and ‘underground’ media that followed the group inside and we will see a lot of people claiming that was them too but the reality is most will be traced by their online activities or by all the documentation that was created by those there (journalists and people recording their own crimes and the crimes of others) and by the security cameras. The most troubling aspect that is becoming clearer is the strong possibility of tour groups reconning the building and possible collusion between members of Congress or their staff and some of the terrorists. There is also that some of the Capitol police appeared to be assisting the terrorists while others tried to hold them back. Two USCP officer have already been arrested.

The FBI has also (as far as I know) identified the terrorist who planted the pipe bombs at the RNC and DNC headquarters and no information has come out as to whether they were a bluff or authentic bombs that failed to detonate.

For those interested the current plans in those darker areas are for the 17th and the 20th. Especially the 20th. There is a diminishing interest in the 17th so that is more likely to be nothing. The 20th are where most of them have insane plans for victory that I won’t dignify by repeating. Hopefully the increased military and federal agency presence at the Capitol will discourage both. There are also grandiose plans of hitting all 50 state capitols. I doubt they have the numbers but we may see protests with some violent actors at some of the Capitols. Some may try for other federal of state buildings. I would avoid government buildings on the 20th in general if possible. Again, hopefully it will be nothing. The delusions of these borderline cultists are based largely around specific dates where grand events will be occurring to bring victory. It is like watching Second Coming predictors except it is like they are on meth and instead of picking a new date every couple of years they add a new one a week or two out when the last one failed. For some it is starting to break down in a lot of areas as the predictions keep failing and some are abandoning the movement. The danger is from the desperate and the true believers who will just never let go no matter how crushed they are. They may become less of a group and more of an individual threat going forward. A lot depends on whether they can find a new leader.

The FBI has been warning about this threat for a while now but hopefully now the gloves can come off. The Pentagon is also trying to screen their own ranks for radicals.

 

41 minutes ago, Dan McClellan said:

BLM kicked him out long ago because he was always trying to incite violence and always came to everything armed to the gills. He had to start up his own org. The progressive movement in Utah has long been disgusted by his idiocy, and now he's embarrassing the state all over again.

Is Sullivan still associated with Jesse Taggart, the alleged shooter of the motorist at the Provo riot? It seemed like they were rather closely aligned back then. Have the BLM/Antifa movements been disassociating themselves from Taggart as well as Sullivan?

[The Nehor]

19 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Did they identify the girl who was with him? Was her name Samantha Darling?

They don’t look like the same person to me when I look at the photos but I could be wrong.

[Scott Lloyd]

48 minutes ago, Dan McClellan said:

BLM kicked him out long ago because he was always trying to incite violence and always came to everything armed to the gills. He had to start up his own org. The progressive movement in Utah has long been disgusted by his idiocy, and now he's embarrassing the state all over again.

Embarrassing the state or embarrassing the progressive movement in the state? I’m a Utahn, and I surely don’t claim any affinity for him that I would be embarrassed by his behavior. 

[The Nehor]

1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said:

 

Is Sullivan still associated with Jesse Taggart, the alleged shooter of the motorist at the Provo riot? It seemed like they were rather closely aligned back then. Have the BLM/Antifa movements been disassociating themselves from Taggart as well as Sullivan?

No idea. The only time I heard about Taggart was during the Provo shooting thing but there was some anger as one of the cardinal rules everyone was telling everyone about those protests is “don’t bring guns” because of the potential for escalation. There are people defending him under Utah “Stand your ground” laws but I haven’t heard if he has or ever had or continues to have a relationship with Sullivan. I don’t know Utah’s laws but the videos I saw at the time had me leaning toward the driver deliberately assaulting the group. I think it would have been better to get out of the way rather than open fire but they may not have had time. My understanding is that that is not a turn lane and the narrative that the car was rushed seems to me to me to be the opposite of what happened. I can’t justify the second shot though other than emotional rage. This also serves as an example of why bringing firearms to these protests is a bad idea.

Here is the video if interested. Warning it involves a car hitting people and gunfire:

I found this just now:

https://justiceforjessetaggart.com/index.html

There is no way to really disassociate. I never heard of him again after that for what it is worth (not much).

[The Nehor]

11 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Embarrassing the state or embarrassing the progressive movement in the state? I’m a Utahn, and I surely don’t claim any affinity for him that I would be embarrassed by his behavior. 

I would say both.

[Scott Lloyd]

7 hours ago, Calm said:

https://www.ksl.com/article/50083768/utah-activist-inside-us-capitol-says-woman-killed-was-first-to-try-to-enter-house-chamber

He keeps putting himself in the center, by his actions and when he tells his story. 

 

7 hours ago, Calm said:

The Rolling Stone article makes him into some kinds of maverick reporter hero.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/ashli-babbitt-shooting-video-jayden-x-maga-riot-interview-1112949/amp/

And he says he is very antigovernment, never voted.  

 

7 hours ago, strappinglad said:

Rule #1 . Always assume that the media gets the story straight... like a moving snake . 

Mr. Sullivan is, of course, innocent before the law until proven guilty, but the behavior described in these reports seems to fit the commonly understood symptoms of psychopathy, including a manipulative nature.  I was embarrassed for the Deseret News when I saw the reported interview quoting him as though he were some sort of insider pundit, but it now appears he has been making the rounds. I think news outlets would be well advised to be wary of making him into a gonzo folk figure. 

[Dan McClellan]

35 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Embarrassing the state or embarrassing the progressive movement in the state? I’m a Utahn, and I surely don’t claim any affinity for him that I would be embarrassed by his behavior. 

I don't claim any affinity for him either, nor do I claim any affinity for our Congressman or our Senators, but with one exception, they all thoroughly embarrass me when they appear in national or international headlines as Utahns doing stupid things. The social identities that we share still exist even if we set ourselves apart in others. I'd suggest if such headlines are not embarrassing because we're happily and unilaterally ensconced on the "other side," we might have identified the root of all this divisiveness. 

[Dan McClellan]

52 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Is Sullivan still associated with Jesse Taggart, the alleged shooter of the motorist at the Provo riot? It seemed like they were rather closely aligned back then. Have the BLM/Antifa movements been disassociating themselves from Taggart as well as Sullivan?

BLM had kicked Sullivan out well before the Provo incident. He had even moved to Portland, tried to get in with BLM there, and was also kicked out before coming back to Utah. That's when he started up his own organization, "Insurgence USA," which was the group that actually organized the Provo event (BLM was not involved). I'm not aware of any formal connection of any kind between Utah's BLM chapter and Taggart. 

[Scott Lloyd]

28 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

No idea. The only time I heard about Taggart was during the Provo shooting thing but there was some anger as one of the cardinal rules everyone was telling everyone about those protests is “don’t bring guns” because of the potential for escalation. There are people defending him under Utah “Stand your ground” laws but I haven’t heard if he has or ever had or continues to have a relationship with Sullivan. I don’t know Utah’s laws but the videos I saw at the time had me leaning toward the driver deliberately assaulting the group. I think it would have been better to get out of the way rather than open fire but they may not have had time. My understanding is that that is not a turn lane and the narrative that the car was rushed seems to me to me to be the opposite of what happened. I can’t justify the second shot though other than emotional rage. This also serves as an example of why bringing firearms to these protests is a bad idea.

Here is the video if interested. Warning it involves a car hitting people and gunfire:

I found this just now:

https://justiceforjessetaggart.com/index.html

There is no way to really disassociate. I never heard of him again after that for what it is worth (not much).

I think the behavior of the motorist is explainable and justifiable in the context of a boisterous and menacing mob blocking traffic, committing vandalism, brandishing firearms and ultimately one being fired point blank at a motorist. 
 

The video is confusing to me. I don’t see anyone actually being struck by a car. I see someone falling over, but that is well before the SUV moves up into the frame. The car picks up speed only after the shot is heard, more than understandable.  
 

I’m acquainted with the material you posted here. It is from a website apparently managed by his sister pursuant to a legal defense fund for her brother. That is where I’ve seen the “stand-your-ground” argument. I’m no attorney, but it strikes me as extremely strained. It distorts Utah’s stand-your-ground law, which pertains to such things as home-invasion robberies in which a victim’s space is being violated in the course of commission of a crime. The argument in this instance presupposes that the rioters had the right to be there blocking or inhibiting traffic in the intersection, which, of course, is an outrageous presumption. 
 

I will be surprised if they get anywhere with such a defense. I think Taggart’s best bet at this point will be to cut some sort of plea deal with the prosecution, if he can. 

[Scott Lloyd]

47 minutes ago, Dan McClellan said:

BLM had kicked Sullivan out well before the Provo incident. He had even moved to Portland, tried to get in with BLM there, and was also kicked out before coming back to Utah. That's when he started up his own organization, "Insurgence USA," which was the group that actually organized the Provo event (BLM was not involved). I'm not aware of any formal connection of any kind between Utah's BLM chapter and Taggart. 

Taggart was present at the rioting in Salt Lake last year, in which a police car was set on fire. 

Edited January 15, 2021 by Scott Lloyd

[The Nehor]

1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I think the behavior of the motorist is explainable and justifiable in the context of a boisterous and menacing mob blocking traffic, committing vandalism, brandishing firearms and ultimately one being fired point blank at a motorist. 
 

The video is confusing to me. I don’t see anyone actually being struck by a car. I see someone falling over, but that is well before the SUV moves up into the frame. The car picks up speed only after the shot is heard, more than understandable.  
 

I’m acquainted with the material you posted here. It is from a website apparently managed by his sister pursuant to a legal defense fund for her brother. That is where I’ve seen the “stand-your-ground” argument. I’m no attorney, but it strikes me as extremely strained. It distorts Utah’s stand-your-ground law, which pertains to such things as home-invasion robberies in which a victim’s space is being violated in the course of commission of a crime. The argument in this instance presupposes that the rioters had the right to be there blocking or inhibiting traffic in the intersection, which, of course, is an outrageous presumption. 
 

I will be surprised if they get anywhere with such a defense. I think Taggart’s best bet at this point will be to cut some sort of plea deal with the prosecution, if he can. 

My first reaction to the whole thing was that an idiot brought a firearm to a protest and we knew it would be a hit to the goals of the protests in general and it was as it changed the narrative for a few days.

I have a hard time understanding why, seeing a group of protesters they would swerve towards the sidewalk and keep going instead of stopping behind the line of cars. Driving into the group seems to be using the vehicle as a weapon but I obviously am not familiar with Utah law.

I doubt it will go well for him no matter what and I see no justification for the second shot no matter what so I don’t think we disagree on that much.

[The Nehor]

1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Taggart was present at the rioting in Salt Lake last year, in which a police car was set in fire. 

Was that the car fire that happened shortly after the guy with the bow and arrow?

[Scott Lloyd]

37 minutes ago, Dan McClellan said:

I don't claim any affinity for him either, nor do I claim any affinity for our Congressman or our Senators, but with one exception, they all thoroughly embarrass me when they appear in national or international headlines as Utahns doing stupid things. The social identities that we share still exist even if we set ourselves apart in others. I'd suggest if such headlines are not embarrassing because we're happily and unilaterally ensconced on the "other side," we might have identified the root of all this divisiveness. 

There is, of course, a substantial difference between an elected representative and an alleged instigator and perpetrator of crime in terms of whether one or the other can credibly be viewed as representing the state. 

[The Nehor]

Oh and the thread title made me remember this.

 

[Scott Lloyd]

7 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

My first reaction to the whole thing was that an idiot brought a firearm to a protest and we knew it would be a hit to the goals of the protests in general and it was as it changed the narrative for a few days.

I have a hard time understanding why, seeing a group of protesters they would swerve towards the sidewalk and keep going instead of stopping behind the line of cars. Driving into the group seems to be using the vehicle as a weapon but I obviously am not familiar with Utah law.

I doubt it will go well for him no matter what and I see no justification for the second shot no matter what so I don’t think we disagree on that much.

Phrases like “swerve toward the sidewalk,” “driving into the group” and “using the vehicle as a weapon” distort what actually happened, which is that the motorist was slowly creeping up, trying to make his way past the traffic clog and giving the rioters, who had no right to be there blocking traffic in the first place, plenty of time to get out of the way. 
 

You seem to be rather cavalier about the behavior of the rioters: blocking traffic, menacing the motorists with loud and aggressive behavior, inflicting property damage on vehicles, etc. 

[Scott Lloyd]

18 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Was that the car fire that happened shortly after the guy with the bow and arrow?

It all runs together in my memory, but yeah, I think Taggart was there for that stuff, with his camp trailer towed behind his pickup. 

[teddyaware]

5 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Phrases like “swerve toward the sidewalk,” “driving into the group” and “using the vehicle as a weapon” distort what actually happened, which is that the motorist was slowly creeping up, trying to make his way past the traffic clog and giving the rioters, who had no right to be there blocking traffic in the first place, plenty of time to get out of the way. 
 

You seem to be rather cavalier about the behavior of the rioters: blocking traffic, menacing the motorists with loud and aggressive behavior, inflicting property damage on vehicles, etc. 

You too would likely be cavalier about this mobs lawbreaking and destructive rampages if you also sympathized with their Marxist agenda.

[Scott Lloyd]

10 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

You too would likely be cavalier about this mobs lawbreaking and destructive rampages if you also sympathized with their Marxist agenda.

My enthusiasm in agreeing with you is tempered by my worry about the thread drifting into the political realm and thereby being shut down prematurely. 

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Phrases like “swerve toward the sidewalk,” “driving into the group” and “using the vehicle as a weapon” distort what actually happened, which is that the motorist was slowly creeping up, trying to make his way past the traffic clog and giving the rioters, who had no right to be there blocking traffic in the first place, plenty of time to get out of the way. 
 

You seem to be rather cavalier about the behavior of the rioters: blocking traffic, menacing the motorists with loud and aggressive behavior, inflicting property damage on vehicles, etc. 

I invite anyone to watch the video and decide if I am distorting it.

I consider the BLM movement’s goals to be more important than making people feel comfortable or minor vehicle damage but I am not going to do a lot of pearl-clutching over the protests in general nor do I feel the need to defend every action taken by protesters. I am obviously more sympathetic to the protesters.

“I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.” -MLK

Hiding behind property damage and the inevitable violence that is going to happen in any struggle for equality that requires resorting to civil disobedience is, in essence, saying that you cannot pursue your cause because it might have negative ramifications. It is blaming the victims. A paternalistic chiding that if you would all just calm down and never do anything wrong and we will get to your problems in due time is meaningless because the time may never come. It is also against the American spirit itself. How many Tories in the days leading up to and during the Revolution told everyone to calm down and that one day Britain would stop their excesses if the colonists would just be reasonable and calm down and act politely? Quite a few.

49 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

You too would likely be cavalier about this mobs lawbreaking and destructive rampages if you also sympathized with their Marxist agenda.

“Stop killing minorities” is not a Marxist agenda or if we have reached the point that that platform is only acceptable to communists than I guess communism is the way.

It is amazing that people that claim to think the Civil Rights movement led to positive change try to shout down other movements with the same flawed accusations used during the Civil Rights movement. Convinced the commies are behind a plea for civil rights and equal protection. What does that say about our society that a plea for those things makes people default to that excuse?

Since this thread is going to burn down soon here is a good article about the Capitol attack and the forces behind it that built to this point.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/01/25/among-the-insurrectionists

God help us all.

Edited January 15, 2021 by The Nehor

[The Nehor]

34 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

My enthusiasm in agreeing with you is tempered by my worry about the thread drifting into the political realm and thereby being shut down prematurely. 

It was never going to last.

[Dan McClellan]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

There is, of course, a substantial difference between an elected representative and an alleged instigator and perpetrator of crime in terms of whether one or the other can credibly be viewed as representing the state. 

The social identity I share with other people who identity as Utahns is not limited only to those formally elected to represent me or other Utahns in state or federal government. 

[Dan McClellan]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Taggart was present at the rioting in Salt Lake last year, in which a police car was set on fire. 

Which is not a demonstration of anything approximating any formal relationship whatsoever to the Utah chapter of Black Lives Matter.