Jared Livesey Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 In the last post, "Who Are the Rich?", we saw that there are two economic classes in the scriptures: the rich: those who have more than they immediately need, and the poor: those who do not have more than they immediately need, and who are themselves divided into two sub-classes: those who have sufficient for their immediate needs, and those who do not have sufficient for their immediate needs. Next, we look at 2 Nephi 9:27-43. Preliminary questions: What does it mean to be wise? What does it mean to be learned? 2 Nephi 9 27 But woe unto him that hath the law given, yea, that hath all the commandments of God, like unto us, and that transgresseth them and that wasteth the days of his probation, for awful is his state. 28 O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness and the frailties and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves. Wherefore their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not; wherefore they shall perish. 29 But to be learned is good if it so be that they hearken unto the counsels of God. 30 But woe unto the rich which are rich as to the things of the world, for because that they are rich, they despise the poor and they persecute the meek. And their hearts are upon their treasures; wherefore their treasure is their god. And behold, their treasure shall perish with them also. 31 And woe unto the deaf that will not hear, for they shall perish. 32 Woe unto the blind that will not see, for they shall perish also. 33 Woe unto the uncircumcised of heart, for a knowledge of their iniquities shall smite them at the last day. 34 Woe unto the liar, for he shall be thrust down to hell. 35 Woe unto the murderer who deliberately killeth, for he shall die. 36 Woe unto them who commit whoredoms, for they shall be thrust down to hell. 37 Yea, woe unto they that worship idols, for the devil of all devils delighteth in them. 38 And in fine, woe unto all they that die in their sins, for they shall return to God and behold his face and remain in their sins. 39 O my beloved brethren, remember the awfulness in transgressing against that holy God, and also the awfulness of yielding to the enticings of that cunning one. Remember, to be carnally minded is death and to be spiritually minded is life eternal. 40 O my beloved brethren, give ear to my words. Remember the greatness of the Holy One of Israel. Do not say that I have spoken hard things against you; for if ye do, ye will revile against the truth; for I have spoken the words of your Maker. I know that the words of truth are hard against all uncleanness, but the righteous fear it not, for they love the truth and are not shaken. 41 O then, my beloved brethren, come unto the Lord, the Holy One. Remember that his paths are righteousness. Behold, the way for man is narrow, but it lieth in a straight course before him. And the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel, and he employeth no servant there. And there is none other way save it be by the gate, for he cannot be deceived, for the Lord God is his name. 42 And whoso knocketh to him will he open. And the wise and the learned and they that are rich which are puffed up because of their learning and their wisdom and their riches, yea, they are they whom he despiseth. And save they shall cast these things away and consider themselves fools before God and come down in the depths of humility, he will not open unto them. 43 But the things of the wise and the prudent shall be hid from them forever, yea, that happiness which is prepared for the saints. ===== Questions: Have we been given the law? (v. 27) (hint: 3 Nephi 14:12) Do we have all the commandments of God, like unto the Nephites? (v. 27) (hint: 3 Nephi 15:1-10) What does it mean to "hearken unto the counsels of God"? (v. 29) Is it good to be learned if one does not hearken to the counsels of God? (v. 29) Why do the rich necessarily despise the poor and persecute the meek? (v. 30) Is there any good news for the rich in this? (v. 30) Of what significance is it that Jacob is herein repeating the words of the Lord God? (v. 40) What does it mean to be "puffed up"? (v. 42) Why does the Lord God despise the wise, the learned, and the rich? (v. 42) What is the counsel of God to the wise, the learned, and the rich pertaining to their wisdom, their learning, and their riches? (v. 42) Are the saints, as a group, and the wise, the learned, and the rich, as a group, mutually exclusive? (v. 43) How does this help us understand what it means to come down in the depths of humility? Bonus question: are Jacob's words binding upon us? If so, why? If not, why not?
strappinglad Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 Under 42 line 3 it gives the caveat about the wise and learned etc. Apparently He doesn't despise all of them.
strappinglad Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 25 minutes ago, Jared Livesey said: Why is that the case? jealousy? God does say He is a jealous god. OK, that was uncalled for! What shall we do then with the ' commandment ' to learn from the best books ? Is it to be done for the same reason that one can seek riches,ie, to grow the Kingdom?
Jared Livesey Posted October 9, 2020 Author Posted October 9, 2020 Jacob 2 17 Think of your brethren like to yourselves, and be familiar with all and free with your substance, that they may be rich like unto you. 18 But before that ye seek for riches, seek ye for the kingdom of God. 19 And after that ye have obtained a hope in Christ, ye shall obtain riches if ye seek them; and ye will seek them for the intent to do good, to clothe the naked and to feed the hungry and to liberate the captive and administer relief to the sick and the afflicted. ===== Questions: What does "be familiar with all" mean? (v. 17) What does "be ... free with your substance" mean? (v. 17) What does "that they may be rich like unto you" mean? (v. 17) What is "the kingdom of God"? (v. 18) With actionable specificity, how does one seek for the kingdom of God? (v. 18) What is the relationship between the kingdom of God and having obtained a hope in Christ? (vv. 18-19) If you think of your brethren as equals to yourself, and you are familiar with everyone and free with your substance so that everyone is as rich as you, and you go about doing good with your substance, clothing the naked and feeding the hungry, and liberating the captive - which means paying off others' debts - and administering relief to the sick and the afflicted, then can you be rich as to the things of this world at all? If so, how? If not, why not? (v. 19) Bonus question: are Jacob's words binding upon us? If so, why? If not, why not?
Robert F. Smith Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Jared Livesey said: In the last post, "Who Are the Rich?", we saw that there are two economic classes in the scriptures: the rich: those who have more than they immediately need, and the poor: those who do not have more than they immediately need, and who are themselves divided into two sub-classes: those who have sufficient for their immediate needs, and those who do not have sufficient for their immediate needs. #2 is incorrectly defined, Jared. The poor are a distinct group of "those who do not have sufficient for their immediate needs." Sufficiency clearly excludes the poor. I, for example, am neither rich nor poor, and that is true of most Americans. Even in Russia and China today there are basically three economic groups: rich, ordinary, and poor. Quote Next, we look at 2 Nephi 9:27-43............................. to be learned is good if it so be that they hearken unto the counsels of God. .... woe unto the rich which are rich as to the things of the world, for because that they are rich, they despise the poor and they persecute the meek. And their hearts are upon their treasures; wherefore their treasure is their god. And behold, their treasure shall perish with them also. .............................. And the wise and the learned and they that are rich which are puffed up because of their learning and their wisdom and their riches, ................................. Questions: Have we been given the law? (v. 27) (hint: 3 Nephi 14:12) Do we have all the commandments of God, like unto the Nephites? (v. 27) (hint: 3 Nephi 15:1-10) What does it mean to "hearken unto the counsels of God"? (v. 29) Is it good to be learned if one does not hearken to the counsels of God? (v. 29) Why do the rich necessarily despise the poor and persecute the meek? (v. 30) Is there any good news for the rich in this? (v. 30) Of what significance is it that Jacob is herein repeating the words of the Lord God? (v. 40) What does it mean to be "puffed up"? (v. 42) Why does the Lord God despise the wise, the learned, and the rich? (v. 42) What is the counsel of God to the wise, the learned, and the rich pertaining to their wisdom, their learning, and their riches? (v. 42) Are the saints, as a group, and the wise, the learned, and the rich, as a group, mutually exclusive? (v. 43) How does this help us understand what it means to come down in the depths of humility? ............................................. God teaches us the conditional nature of our economic situation, and He addresses this matter directly: Mosiah 4:16-26 (King Benjamin), Quote ye yourselves will succor those that stand in need of your succor; ye will administer of your substance unto him that standeth in need; and ye will not suffer that the beggar putteth up his petition to you in vain, and turn him out to perish. Perhaps thou shalt say: The man has brought upon himself his misery; therefore I will stay my hand, and will not give unto him of my food, nor impart unto him of my substance that he may not suffer, for his punishments are just— But I say unto you, O man, whosoever doeth this the same hath great cause to repent; and except he repenteth of that which he hath done he perisheth forever, and hath no interest in the kingdom of God. For behold, are we not all beggars? Do we not all depend upon the same Being, even God, for all the substance which we have, for both food and raiment, and for gold, and for silver, and for all the riches which we have of every kind? ...even at this time, ye have been calling on his name, and begging for a remission of your sins. And has he suffered that ye have begged in vain? Nay;................. And now, if God, who has created you, on whom you are dependent for your lives and for all that ye have and are, doth grant unto you whatsoever ye ask that is right, in faith, believing that ye shall receive, ... ye ought to impart of the substance that ye have one to another. And if ye judge the man who putteth up his petition to you for your substance that he perish not, and condemn him, how much more just will be your condemnation for withholding your substance, which doth not belong to you but to God, to whom also your life belongeth; ................ .....wo be unto that man, for his substance shall perish with him; and now, I say these things unto those who are rich as pertaining to the things of this world. And again, I say unto the poor, ye who have not and yet have sufficient, that ye remain from day to day; I mean all you who deny the beggar, because ye have not; I would that ye say in your hearts that: I give not because I have not, but if I had I would give. ..... if ye say this in your hearts ye remain guiltless, otherwise ye are condemned; and your condemnation is just for ye covet that which ye have not received. .........for the sake of retaining a remission of your sins from day to day, that ye may walk guiltless before God—I would that ye should impart of your substance to the poor, every man according to that which he hath, such as feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the sick and administering to their relief, both spiritually and temporally, according to their wants. These are straightforward rules, and they divide the people into three groups. Edited October 9, 2020 by Robert F. Smith
Amulek Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 God doesn't despise the wise, the learned, or the rich - at least, not in absolute terms. I think what God despises is the wise and learned who think they know better than God and ignore his commandments. Same goes for the rich who think they don't need God and/or have no obligation to help their fellow man.
let’s roll Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 I invite you to ponder more deeply the scriptures you cite and make appropriate adjustments to you interpretation of those scriptures. Verse 30 might be a good place for you to start. A few things you might consider. Who is the richest of all? Does God despise himself? Does material wealth equate fully to being rich as to the things of the world? If one can been poor in things that aren’t temporal (I.e. spirit), can one be rich in spiritual things ( e.g. humility, charity) and if so, wouldn’t they fall outside the scriptures’ definition of rich, regardless of how much temporal wealth they have, because their spiritual richness defines where their heart is and it is not set on the temporal but on the spiritual? 2
Recommended Posts