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Who Are the Twenty-four Elders? See Revelations Chapter Four.


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I've studied Mormon Scripture diligently for the last seven years. I know it comes from God. However, I have few disagreements with D&C Scriptures. D&C teaches that the 24 elders are the 12 apostles in America and the 12 in Jerusalem. 

But the Scriptures paint a different story. First off, I take God's promised as literal and not a figure of speech. God promised Abraham, "Behold thy seed will be equal to all the stars in heaven". Secondly, God strategically scattered all 24 tribes to breed with all nations so this promise will come to pass. God did this so everybody alive today will have the blood of Abraham in them. For example, perhaps the tribe of Mishma built a boat and went to Austerlia in 800BC and bread with the Aboriginals. 

God created many stars and promised we would be equal to them. The Stars testify of His love for us. Each star is room in his mansion. He created the stars so we can become like him. The universe is an infant platform awaiting the God's fill it with love and life. Without Ishmael this is not possible. With Ishmael, the son of Abraham, this is possible.

(See Genesis 17:20, Genesis 21:18, and Genesis 25:12-18 for the names of the other twelve tribes)

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Ishmael partakes in the blessings of Abraham just not in the direct birthright line... The birthright line is Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Ephraim. The non-birthright lines still have significant blessing though not usually the focus of our scriptures. David's line, is the royal line, and the line of which the Messiah came was the line of Judah. Moses and Aaron were from Levi which has the levitical priesthood blessings.

There is also the first shall be last and last first element.

Judah received the gospel first but Ephraim will lead the latter-day gathering. Now that much of Ephraim has been gathered out of Western Europe and the time of the Gentiles is drawing to a close note who is flooding into Europe to inherit the Gentiles place (Ishmael). Most of the islamic world remains closed for proselyting... for Ishmael's blessings(the firstborn) come last. Note that not all persons of colour were denied the priesthood just those with African ancestory. A less recognised factoid around the blacks and the priesthood debate is that Africa is rich in the blood of Judah and Ishmael whose blessings come later. Some African tribes(Lemba) display little to no external differences from their neighbours but:

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A subsequent study in 2000 found that a substantial number of Lemba men carry a particular haplotype of the Y-chromosome known as the Cohen modal haplotype (CMH), as well as a haplogroup of Y-DNA Haplogroup J found among some Jews, but also in other populations across the Middle East and Arabia.[38][39] The genetic studies have found no Semitic female contribution to the Lemba gene pool.[40]

Many of the lineage declarations in patriarchal blessing for black africans are confirming the genetic evidence with them declared as from the tribe of Judah. I know because they are in my wards and stakes and they come from across the continent. Southern, central and even West Africa which is about as far as you can get from the Jewish diaspora. Africa specifically East Africa is the fastest growing Areas of the church right now with apostles equating it with growth rates that have not been seen since the Kirtland days. The Middle Eastern, East African sea routes have been open and active for millennia.

Something to Ponder...

The numbers of Revelation are highly symbolic and have many meanings.

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10 hours ago, Moroni Spagnola said:

I've studied Mormon Scripture diligently for the last seven years. I know it comes from God. However, I have few disagreements with D&C Scriptures. D&C teaches that the 24 elders are the 12 apostles in America and the 12 in Jerusalem. 

But the Scriptures paint a different story. First off, I take God's promised as literal and not a figure of speech. God promised Abraham, "Behold thy seed will be equal to all the stars in heaven". Secondly, God strategically scattered all 24 tribes to breed with all nations so this promise will come to pass. God did this so everybody alive today will have the blood of Abraham in them. For example, perhaps the tribe of Mishma built a boat and went to Austerlia in 800BC and bread with the Aboriginals. 

God created many stars and promised we would be equal to them. The Stars testify of His love for us. Each star is room in his mansion. He created the stars so we can become like him. The universe is an infant platform awaiting the God's fill it with love and life. Without Ishmael this is not possible. With Ishmael, the son of Abraham, this is possible.

(See Genesis 17:20, Genesis 21:18, and Genesis 25:12-18 for the names of the other twelve tribes)
 

Your idea that the Doctrine & Covenants teaches that the twenty-four elders in chapter 4 of the Book of Revelation are the 12 apostles in Jerusalem and the 12 disciples in ancient America is incorrect. You’ve got me wondering how you came up with this erroneous idea?

In Doctrine and Covenants 77, the prophet Joseph Smith answers the question:

 5 Q. What are we to understand by the four and twenty elders, spoken of by John? A. We are to understand that these elders whom John saw, were elders who had been faithful in the work of the ministry and were dead; who belonged to the seven churches, and were then in the paradise of God.

So the elders in question are actually 24 especially faithful members from the 7 churches in Asia Minor who had died and were given crowns of glory for their faithfulness while in the midst of the paradise of God.

You are also incorrect about all present-day people on the earth having the blood of Abraham. The prophet Joseph Smith taught that those who are not of the Abrahamic lineage are adopted into the house of Abraham when they join the Church. The following is from the Church’s official guide to the scriptures.

A person who is of non-Israelite lineage becomes a member of the family of Abraham and the house of Israel by having faith in Jesus Christ, repenting, being baptized by immersion, and receiving the Holy Ghost. (Guide to the Scriptures)

It’s important to keep in mind that those who are adopted into the family of Abraham through faith are just as much the children of Abraham as anyone who is a literal descendant of Abraham. And on the other hand, those literal descendants of Abraham who reject or turn against the gospel of Christ are numbered among those who are considered to have rejected their birthright.

Edited by teddyaware
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18 hours ago, gav said:

Many of the lineage declarations in patriarchal blessing for black africans are confirming the genetic evidence with them declared as from the tribe of Judah.

Thank you for some great insight, I agree with most of what you said, and appreciate the feedback. But this verse above I have a problem with.

Hagar was Egyptian and took Ishmael back to Egypt. This is when Ishmael had twelve sons. The sons of Ishmael taught Egypt of a Messiah that will be born from a virgin.

Why? Because Abraham taught Ishmael the prophecies of God.

Evidence: Horas heard the prophecies of Abraham through the children of Ishmael (see Genesis 17:20 & 21:18). This is when the first false Messiah came. Horas claimed to be the Savior born of a virgin and made himself twelve apostles. He also kicked out Ishmael's tribes (the 12 BedouinTribes, see Genesis 25:12-18).

Some tribes went to Africa. Judah DNA is Jewish DNA. Africans are not Jews. They're Ishmaelites and the Children of Abraham and they belong to one of the 24 tribes of Abraham. Also, none of us are actually from the tribe of Ephraim, we we're adopted into that tribe. Native Americans and Latinos are the chosen ones, we are the gentiles who are suppose to carry them on our backs (metaphors for helping them). They own blood rights to the priesthood, we do not (see D&C 107:16-80). 

After doing much Scripture study and Prayer I received many revelations.

1) I am from the tribe of Asher.

2) I know of the 24 tribes of Abraham

3) I know Jesus Christ showed himself to each elder of the tribe. We have two elders testimony of this, Judah and Ephraim.

4) I know that 22 more elders wrote their testimony of Christ in golden or silver plated. 

5) I know when the blood of Abraham is united in the waters of Mormon, the 24 elders of Abraham will throw their golden crowns at the feet of Christ and worship him (see Revelations 4:10).

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Also, when Lehi commanded to get Ishmael, how do we know he was talking about somebody from the tribes of Israel. What if it was someone from the tribe of Bedouin? That would mean the Nephites mixed with Ishmael daughters blood, would create Ishmael and Isaac children. Children that are both lions and lambs, as Isaac was like a lamb, and Ishmael was like a lion. 

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I want to be clear that in 600BC God cursed Judah (the Jews) and made Ephraim (Nephites and Lamanites) the chosen tribe of God. 

Israel is only 12 tribes of Abraham. We only know of 2 tribes. We know nothing of the other 10 tribes of Israel. I only know I come from Asher because I pray diligently and received personal revelations. But that would mean Asher mated with the English or Irish. The other 12 tribes of Abraham come from Ishmael. All 24 Tribes are Abrahamic and Abraham is basically our father. Ephraim is the only tribe that own blood rights to the priesthood (native Americans and Latinos). 

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5 hours ago, Moroni Spagnola said:

Also, when Lehi commanded to get Ishmael, how do we know he was talking about somebody from the tribes of Israel. What if it was someone from the tribe of Bedouin? That would mean the Nephites mixed with Ishmael daughters blood, would create Ishmael and Isaac children. Children that are both lions and lambs, as Isaac was like a lamb, and Ishmael was like a lion. 

How do we know?  Two quotes:

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James E. Talmage, Articles of Faith, p.504 - 505, Footnotes
1.  Ishmael an Ephraimite -- "The Prophet Joseph Smith informed us that the record of Lehi was contained on the one hundred sixteen pages that were first translated and subsequently stolen, and of which an abridgment is given us in the First Book of Nephi, which is the record of Nephi individually, he himself being of the lineage of Manasseh; but that Ishmael was of the lineage of Ephraim, and that his sons married into Lehi's family, and Lehi's sons married Ishmael's daughters, thus fulfilling the words of Jacob upon Ephraim and Manasseh in the 48th chapter of Genesis [verse 16] which says: 'And let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.'  Thus these descendants of Manasseh and Ephraim grew together upon this American continent, with a sprinkling from the house of Judah, from Mulek descended, who left Jerusalem eleven years after Lehi, and founded the colony afterwards known as Zarahemla found by Mosiah -- thus making a combination, an intermixture of Ephraim and Manasseh with the remnants of Judah, and for aught we know, the remnants of some other tribes that might have accompanied Mulek.  And such have grown up upon the American continent." -- From "Discourse by Apostle Erastus Snow," at Logan, Utah, May 6, 1882, see Journal of Discourses, vol. 23, pp. 184, 185.

And:

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B. H. Roberts, New Witnesses for God, Vol.3, p.172

Footnote:  The statement here that Ishmael was of Ephraim is set down upon the authority, first, of inference. The inference is based upon the fact as already stated that there are promises in the Hebrew scriptures respecting Ephraim which cannot be realized so far as we know, except through the seed of Ephraim dwelling upon the land of America, as we have seen in considering the evidence of the Bible for the truth of the Book of Mormon; and as Lehi and his family were of the tribe of Manasseh, and Mulek's colony being Jews, it leaves the family of Ishmael, and perhaps Zoram, the servant of Laban to introduce the descendants of Ephraim into the western world. Second, a number of Latter-day Saints, familiarly acquainted with the Prophet Joseph Smith, declare that in conversation they had known him to say that in Mormon's abridgment of the book of Lehi (which supplied the 116 pages of manuscript lost by Martin Harris) it was plainly stated that Ishmael was of the tribe of Ephraim. Among those who heard such remarks was the late Elder Franklin D. Richards, of the Council of the Apostles and Church Historian, who records his recollection of the Prophet's statement in the following manner:

"One day in the autumn of that year, (1843) as I was passing near, (the "Nauvoo Mansion") it being in warm weather, I observed the door standing open and the Prophet Joseph inside conversing with one of the brethren, leaning against the counter. It being a public house, I ventured to walk in, and scarcely had more than time to exchange usual civilities, when this brother said: 'Brother Joseph, how is it that we call the Book of Mormon the Stick of Joseph, in the hands of Ephraim, when the book itself tells us that Lehi was of the lineage of Manasseh? I cannot find in it about the seed of Ephraim dwelling on this land at all.' Joseph replied: 'You will recollect that when Lehi and his family had gone from Jerusalem out into the wilderness, he sent his son Nephi back to the city to get the plates which contained the law of Moses and many prophecies of the prophets, and that he also brought out Ishmael and his family, which were mostly daughters. This Ishmael and his family were of the lineage of Ephraim, and Lehi's sons took Ishmael's daughters for wives, and this is how they have grown together, 'a multitude of nations in the midst of the earth.'

"'If we had those one hundred and sixteen pages of manuscript which Martin Harris got away with, you would know all about it, for Ishmael's ancestry is made very plain therein. The Lord told me not to translate it over again, but to take from Nephi's other plates until I came to the period of time where the other translation was broken off, and then go on with Mormon's abridgment again. That is how it came about that Ishmael's lineage was not given in the Book of Mormon, as well as Lehi's.'"--Frankling D. Richards, "The Contributor," Vol. XVII, p. 425.

 

Edited by InCognitus
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