The Nehor Posted February 19, 2020 Posted February 19, 2020 On 2/17/2020 at 12:54 PM, mfbukowski said: Yep. You start with toddies, and on to heroin. The slippery slope. It usually starts with Coca-Cola and Mountain Dew.
stemelbow Posted February 19, 2020 Posted February 19, 2020 53 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said: Nope, no 'visual impact' at all. All very simple ... and as quiet as the drawing of a breath. Nope, the police didn't witness the death either. I arrived at the police station that morning with a living (though severely injured) boy , and when the cops were finally able to help me get him to hospital, we left the police station with a living boy as well. There were only two witnesses to what happened in between. That's always the question, isn't it? People also asked it of Jesus's death. I could, of course, go into further detail regarding my own personal experience, including what the doctors later told me, but you and I both know that no amount of detail per se is sufficient to compel agreement. After all, I'm just telling a story. I could easily just be making it up. Or taking a real event and significantly embellishing it. When we hear an account that sounds familiar or that slots neatly into our own personal experiences, it has a 'ring of truth' to it. And when we hear an account that doesn't, the natural response is to doubt and question. Sometimes doubts and questions lead people on to having new experiences of their own, and sometimes they are the final stop. Mighty kind of you to continue and answer my questions. Thanks.
mfbukowski Posted February 20, 2020 Posted February 20, 2020 1 hour ago, The Nehor said: It usually starts with Coca-Cola and Mountain Dew. Clearly these drugs must be banned, and the pushers jailed or worse.
hope_for_things Posted February 20, 2020 Author Posted February 20, 2020 On 2/18/2020 at 5:47 PM, mfbukowski said: You miss that this is true of all slow paradigm changes. Yes some are revolutionary but not most. Some begin asking questions and then gradually over time there are discussions and it seems clear that was old has inexplicably morphed into the new, that was really there all the time in the cracks and corners and remained unobserved within the old ideas. Yes, I can understand that this is how change typically happens. I just hope for quicker change because I'm living in the culture and I see the harm and hope for something better.
Islander Posted March 12, 2020 Posted March 12, 2020 On 2/17/2020 at 11:14 AM, hope_for_things said: Can you even imagine how cool this would be! I'm just imagining my wife being pregnant again and having the RS come over to anoint her belly and bless her and the baby. Imagine a world where women stand in circles with men, side by side to give blessings to kids. Imagine my Mom giving me a blessing. Its enough to make me tear up with joy to think of how wonderful this would all be. As stated by the prophets, that would be acceptable if there are no priesthood brethren available to perform the ordinance. I do not see women performing blessings just as a common practice since after all, when officiated by the priesthood, it is an ordinance. There are issues that fit a particular historical and social frame of reference that we can not "import" into the 21st century or vis a vis. Until a few years ago only priesthood brethren officiated the initiatory for women. That is no longer the case. That does not mean that the sisters were ordained to the priesthood to perform the ordinance in the temple. In the 19th century women cared for sick women for the most part. A male physician was called as a last resort. So, a blessing of faith among sisters for an ill one was not uncommon, since no brethren would be called in to minister in those circumstances. But that act of compassion and shared faith does not constitute an ordinance. That was then and this is now.
hope_for_things Posted March 12, 2020 Author Posted March 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Islander said: As stated by the prophets, that would be acceptable if there are no priesthood brethren available to perform the ordinance. I do not see women performing blessings just as a common practice since after all, when officiated by the priesthood, it is an ordinance. There are issues that fit a particular historical and social frame of reference that we can not "import" into the 21st century or vis a vis. Until a few years ago only priesthood brethren officiated the initiatory for women. That is no longer the case. That does not mean that the sisters were ordained to the priesthood to perform the ordinance in the temple. In the 19th century women cared for sick women for the most part. A male physician was called as a last resort. So, a blessing of faith among sisters for an ill one was not uncommon, since no brethren would be called in to minister in those circumstances. But that act of compassion and shared faith does not constitute an ordinance. That was then and this is now. I don't like the current policy, I'd like to see us get to a more egalitarian practice, similar to earlier in the church, but for my comfort level, I'd like priesthood for women as well.
Calm Posted March 12, 2020 Posted March 12, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Islander said: As stated by the prophets, that would be acceptable if there are no priesthood brethren available to perform the ordinance. I do not see women performing blessings just as a common practice since after all, when officiated by the priesthood, it is an ordinance. There are issues that fit a particular historical and social frame of reference that we can not "import" into the 21st century or vis a vis. Until a few years ago only priesthood brethren officiated the initiatory for women. That is no longer the case. That does not mean that the sisters were ordained to the priesthood to perform the ordinance in the temple. In the 19th century women cared for sick women for the most part. A male physician was called as a last resort. So, a blessing of faith among sisters for an ill one was not uncommon, since no brethren would be called in to minister in those circumstances. But that act of compassion and shared faith does not constitute an ordinance. That was then and this is now. My great, maybe great great grandmother was trained as a midwife and was then set apart in this as a calling by iirc, the Presiding Bishopric late 1800's. Could have been stake Presidency, but she lived in Salt Lake area and my memory is it was more 'generic' than her stake. Not saying equivalent to the Priesthood, just saying in many cases it was viewed much more than what we would do ourselves as gathering and praying for a sister in a group. Edited March 12, 2020 by Calm 1
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