Yesterday's Lesson with a Revised Version

[stemelbow]

21 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

I don’t know how your elders would react to that story. 

I believe I’m in the minority when I truly believe people can find happiness outside the church.  I don’t however think the siblings in the story are happy.  Happy people don’t try to tear down others thoughts and feelings and belief systems ****imo***.  

I think one of the cruelest things we do to each other is to yuck someone else’s yum. 

To be fair the siblings and loved ones likely do not see themselves as tearing down anything.  They were probably seeking a open communication and it turned out it seemed more like  relentless bombardment to him, because he couldn't answer the concerns, and felt badly that his faith was being negatively affected.  It's silly to blame them without knowing their story.  

[MustardSeed]

2 hours ago, stemelbow said:

To be fair the siblings and loved ones likely do not see themselves as tearing down anything.  They were probably seeking a open communication and it turned out it seemed more like  relentless bombardment to him, because he couldn't answer the concerns, and felt badly that his faith was being negatively affected.  It's silly to blame them without knowing their story.  

No doubt that happens too.  Both realities are hurtful to relationships aren’t they

 

[cdowis]

6 hours ago, cinepro said:

I think you are illustrating one of the fatal flaws of modern ecumenism in the LDS Church.  Joseph McConkie saw this:

And if God is inspiring people to join other churches, then I want my money back for my mission.  It is extremely insulting to make the truth claims that the Church does, and focus on missionary work like the Church does, and then suggest that people are praying to God to find churches and God is saying anything other than "Find your nearest LDS Church and get baptized!" 

The Church is constantly putting pressure on members to provide referrals to the missionaries, but hey, instead of coming up with a new program for member referrals, why doesn't God just stop telling people to join other religions?

It is unfortunate that you are mischaracterizing my comment, and putting words in my mouth.  I suggest that you re-read and found out what I ACTUALLY said.... or not.

[Storm Rider]

On 2/25/2019 at 5:02 PM, Navidad said:

Yesterday I sat through a lesson in Elder's Quorum. We were taught from a talk that included the following:

"A man who grew up in the Church, served as a full-time missionary and married a lovely woman was surprised when some of his siblings began speaking critically of the Church and the Prophet Joseph Smith.  After a time they left the Church and tried to persuade him to follow. As often happens in such cases, they bombarded him with essays, podcasts, and videos produced by critics, most of who were themselves disaffected former members of the Church. His siblings mocked his faith, telling him he was gullible and misled. He didn't have answers for all their assertions, and his faith began to waver under the relentless opposition. He wondered if he should stop attending church. He talked with his wife. He talked with people he trusted. He prayed. As he meditated in this troubled state of mind, he recalled occasions when he had felt the Holy Spirit and had received a witness of truth by the Spirit. He concluded, "If I am honest with myself, I must admit that the Spirit has touched me more than once and the testimony of the Spirit is real." He has a renewed sense of happiness and peace that is shared by his wife and children."

I sat there happy for the man in the story that he found a renewed witness of truth in his faith, and sad for this stereotypical and one-sided illustration. Of course I said nothing. I wondered what the priesthood holders would say if I changed just a few words?

"A man who grew up in the Mennonite Church, served as a full-time missionary and married a lovely woman was surprised when some of his siblings began speaking critically of the Mennonite Church and its founder Menno Simons..  After a time they left the Mennonite Church and tried to persuade him to follow them into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. As often happens in such cases, they bombarded him with essays, podcasts, and videos produced by many who were themselves disaffected former members of the Mennonite Church and other Christian groups. His siblings mocked his faith, telling him he was gullible and misled, following a church created by man, or maybe even the Devil and pursuing a life of dead works. He didn't have answers for all their assertions that they were now in the "only true and living Church," and his faith began to waver under the relentless opposition and accusations of being a "so-called Christian." He wondered if he should stop attending church. He talked with his wife. He talked with people he trusted. He prayed. As he meditated in this troubled state of mind, he recalled many occasions when he had felt the Holy Spirit and had received a witness of truth by the Spirit. He concluded, "If I am honest with myself, I must admit that the Spirit has touched me more than once and the testimony of the Spirit is real." He has a renewed sense of happiness and peace that is shared by his wife and children." 

Would the elders be equally happy for this man?

 

Yes, our missionaries are taught to seek out those prepared to accept the gospel...because they need the gospel of Jesus Christ in their lives. Those who can easily say they are happy and know that they are following the Spirit are on our Father's errand just as much as each disciple of Jesus Christ. 

You do not need to be validated in your choice by others; you are validated by the Holy Spirit. 

[Storm Rider]

On 2/25/2019 at 6:09 PM, hope_for_things said:

Good points.  The conclusion by the authors of these stories are always that allegiance to the CoJCoLDS needs to be the only valid path to take.  This kind of simple thinking is what retards actual growth in my opinion.  If a person takes the metaphors of taking up your cross, and dying and rebirth seriously, one of the best ways to grow according to these metaphors is having your naive approaches to religion die, and going through a process of rebirth with a much more complicated approach to life coming out the other side of that journey.   People end up being much more humble about what they can really place confidence in and ultimately have knowledge about.  

The deepest thinkers in human history all seem to acknowledge the necessity of having our naive approaches to life broken down.  This can be an extremely challenging process, but I believe it is the path towards greater understanding.  

Good, trite caricature of both members and the Church of Jesus Christ itself, but as most caricatures, it is good propaganda, but without substance.

What retards growth is not following the Spirit.  Period - full stop.  Believing and knowing that others follow the Spirit, by their own admission, is a teaching of the Church. 

Edited February 27, 2019 by Storm Rider

[hope_for_things]

13 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

Good, trite caricature of both members and the Church of Jesus Christ itself, but as most caricatures, it is good propaganda, but without substance.

What retards growth is not following the Spirit.  Period - full stop.  Believing and knowing that others follow the Spirit, by their own admission, is a teaching of the Church. 

I think you intentionally and completely missed my points.  

[mfbukowski]

On 2/25/2019 at 6:03 PM, Navidad said:

Wow! What a great reply. Are you a country music fan. Isn't 'Jesus take the wheel" a country song? I sincerely thank you for your reply. 

Don't know the song, but I have heard the simple phrase "Let go, let God"