Here We Go Again-Holocaust Victim Baptisms

[Exiled]

9 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

OK.  I admit, I have only a rather casual acquaintance with Ms. Radkey.  Perhaps I ought to read up a bit, but, frankly, where she stands is rather low on my list of priorities of things about which I ought to inform myself.

 

CFR that the prophet "is supposedly a righteous individual like Christ."  On at least one occasion, even Christ, when the rich young man who had kept all of the commandments "from [his] youth up" addressed Christ as "Good Master" and asked, "What lack I yet?" to achieve exaltation, asked that young man, "Why callest thou me 'good'?  There is none good but one, that is, God" (see Mark 10:17-25).  Among the principles Christ was trying to teach, I think, is that more than simple goodness or righteousness is required.  Christ was uniquely positioned to offer Himself as a sacrifice for the sins of all mankind because not only was He "good" (indeed, not only was He sinless, and not even the prophet can say that), He was the only person who had power to lay down His mortal life and to take it up again (see John 10:15-18).  

But even He asked the Father if there might be some other way for humankind to be redeemed: "Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me" (Matthew 26:39). Fortunately for us, however, He says, "I came down from heaven not to do mine own will, but the will of Him that sent me" (John 6:38).  And so He told the Father after pleading with Him to let the cup pass from Him, "Nevertheless, not as I will, but as Thou wilt" (Matthew 26:39). Fortunately for us, as Christ says in the Doctrine and Covenants, "Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, for I partook and finished my preparations among the children of men" (Doctrine & Covenants 19:19).

Proxyhood in temple ordinances, however, whatever similarities it may bear to Christ's sacrifice, is a different animal.   While only Christ could serve as a proxy sacrifice for sin because of His sinlessness and because of His power both to lay down His mortal life and to take it up again, neither Christ (even though He is perfect) nor President Thomas S. Monson (good as he is) is commanded to seek after my kindred dead, nor vice versa.  The Brethren have stated repeatedly that while salvation might be an individual undertaking, exaltation is a family affair.

Sure the prophet is fallible and subject to the flesh. But so are the individuals who routinely do the proxy work and yet they are allowed to do it on an individual basis. Why can't they do the proxy work for families, or towns, or whole countries at once? It seems inefficient. The only reason I can see is that going through individually promotes the continual need to go because there are a lot of people who lived, and promotion of the goal to be constantly reminded of what goes on there.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Exiled

[Jane_Doe]

4 minutes ago, Exiled said:

Sure the prophet is fallible and subject to the flesh. But so are the individuals who routinely do the proxy work and yet they are allowed to do it on an individual basis. Why can't they do the proxy work for families, or towns, or whole countries at once? It seems inefficient. The only reason I can see is that going through individually promotes the continual need to go because there are a lot of people who lived, and promotion of the goal to be constantly reminded of what goes on there.

Because commitments to Christ are individual, not by country.  What you're saying here is even more silly than saying "all you ladies in Australia are now married to all the men in Iran"-- it just make zero sense.

[bluebell]

45 minutes ago, Exiled said:

Covenanting and then remembering the covenants is the whole point of going to the temple, right? So, proxy work is really incidental to this.

Why?  We believe that the dead are capable of both covenanting and also remembering the covenant, if a living person participates in the act. 

[Exiled]

54 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Because commitments to Christ are individual, not by country.  What you're saying here is even more silly than saying "all you ladies in Australia are now married to all the men in Iran"-- it just make zero sense.

The atonement is supposedly individual, silly, as well.  However, that was done by one man, for everyone, right?  So, I don't think your quick jump to the zero sense makes sense.  Also, if an individual does proxy work for one, why not one for many?  The reason for having continual work that needs to be done seems to me is that it forces the member to continually return to renew their own promises.

[Exiled]

35 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Why?  We believe that the dead are capable of both covenanting and also remembering the covenant, if a living person participates in the act. 

The dead individually accepting the proxy could still be done, like the atonement, if one did so for many.

[Calm]

We do it this way because we believe we have been commanded to do it this way.  Not much else to say about it, imo.  If God wants it to be all at once, he will share that process with us.