receive the oath

[mfbukowski]

5 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

Can you receive the oath before receiving all the blessings of the temple?

I think you can receive it but even in the endowment the blessings are sealed upon you but are still preparatory to your becoming righteous enough for them to be fully confirmed upon you.  I mean after all we are talking about exaltation here and that is a little hard to do while on this earth!   I think it is like receiving inspiration from the Holy Ghost vs having the Gift of the HG- one can receive the HG before even being a member or else they could not get a testimony in the first place to desire to be baptized, yet after baptism one receives officially the Gift of the HG, and then after sufficient progression we can receive the Second Comforter through the HG since the HG is the conduit for all revelation, like the wires a current runs through or the radio waves which allow the message to flow.    So being ordained before the endowment is one level, getting endowed is another and whatever comes after the endowment on earth or otherwise, is where we "really" get the blessings we deserve or don't deserve.

All this is just the gospel according to Bukowski though.  Your mileage may vary, as we are fond of saying here.

Edited October 26, 2017 by mfbukowski

[HappyJackWagon]

6 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

I think you can receive it but even in the endowment the blessings are sealed upon you but are still preparatory to your becoming righteous enough for them to be fully confirmed upon you.  I mean after all we are talking about exaltation here and that is a little hard to do while on this earth!   I think it is like receiving inspiration from the Holy Ghost vs having the Gift of the HG- one can receive the HG before even being a member or else they could not get a testimony in the first place to desire to be baptized, yet after baptism one receives officially the Gift of the HG, and then after sufficient progression we can receive the Second Comforter through the HG since the HG is the conduit for all revelation, like the wires a current runs through or the radio waves which allow the message to flow.    So being ordained before the endowment is one level, getting endowed is another and whatever comes after the endowment on earth or otherwise, is where we "really" get the blessings we deserve or don't deserve.

All this is just the gospel according to Bukowski though.  Your mileage may vary, as we are fond of saying here.

I'm not getting this. Can you help me understand?

It feels like there is a conflation of covenant and oath. These are 2 different things. What is the oath? As an oath it should not require any qualification beyond Heavenly Father's honor to keep his promise/oath. An oath is not contingent on another person qualifying in some way. That would be a covenant.

[mfbukowski]

4 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I'm not getting this. Can you help me understand?

It feels like there is a conflation of covenant and oath. These are 2 different things. What is the oath? As an oath it should not require any qualification beyond Heavenly Father's honor to keep his promise/oath. An oath is not contingent on another person qualifying in some way. That would be a covenant.

D&C 130

Quote

 

20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessingsare predicated—

21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

 

The oath is the promise of a blessing.  You obey and you get it.

Call it whatever.  Language is ambiguous.   Be a good boy, you get the candy.

[HappyJackWagon]

1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

D&C 130

The oath is the promise of a blessing.  You obey and you get it.

Call it whatever.  Language is ambiguous.   Be a good boy, you get the candy.

So you're essentially saying that God makes an oath that he will make a covenant? The promise of a blessing IF we keep a commandment sounds more like a conditional blessing that must be earned. I think I'm understanding, just not seeing much of a differentiation. I think I'm getting hung up on the idea that an oath is unconditional. But isn't that what is said in the talk mentioned in the OP?

[JLHPROF]

1 minute ago, HappyJackWagon said:

So you're essentially saying that God makes an oath that he will make a covenant? The promise of a blessing IF we keep a commandment sounds more like a conditional blessing that must be earned. I think I'm understanding, just not seeing much of a differentiation. I think I'm getting hung up on the idea that an oath is unconditional. But isn't that what is said in the talk mentioned in the OP?

Someone once told me that a promise is conditional on you to fulfill , an oath is conditional on God to fulfill , and a covenant is an agreement that requires you and God to do their part to fulfill.  Not sure I understand that myself.

[mfbukowski]

11 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Someone once told me that a promise is conditional on you to fulfill , an oath is conditional on God to fulfill , and a covenant is an agreement that requires you and God to do their part to fulfill.  Not sure I understand that myself.

That's because these are distinctions without a difference. It's simply confusing ambiguous words as if there was some difference between them. Give me 30 bucks I promise I will give you 10 gallons of gas. No 30 bucks no promise no gas.

I see nothing complicated about it it's a contract. Call it an oath call it Promise Call It Whatever You Like I see no difference. This was dictated on my phone excuse extra capitals et cetera.

God doesn't break his promises. I see no difference between an oath or a promise from God -he's going to do it if we do our part.

The entire concept of him being God includes the fact that he doesn't break promises. That's why we say he would cease to be God if he broke one. It's more that the concept of God would not make sense if a God breaks a promise.

Edited October 26, 2017 by mfbukowski

[JLHPROF]

5 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

That's because these are distinctions without a difference. It's simply confusing ambiguous words as if there was some difference between them. Give me 30 bucks I promise I will give you 10 gallons of gas. No 30 bucks no promise no gas.

I see nothing complicated about it it's a contract. Call it an oath call it Promise Call It Whatever You Like I see no difference. This was dictated on my phone excuse extra capitals et cetera.

God doesn't break his promises. I see no difference between an oath or a promise from God -he's going to do it if we do our part.

The entire concept of him being God includes the fact that he doesn't break promises. That's why we say he would cease to be God if he broke one. It's more that the concept of God would not make sense if a God breaks a promise.

Then why would D&C differentiate between the oath and covenant if they are just semantics?

[Bobbieaware]

1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

Then why would D&C differentiate between the oath and covenant if they are just semantics?

According to Paul, God swears an oath (“because he can swear by none greater”) that those who become priests will, if faithful, remain priests forever after the order of Melchizedek. Then those who are ordained to the Melchizedek Priesthood make covenants with the Father to abide by the laws governing the priesthood so that the divine power and authority they have received might be fully activated and realized.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Bobbieaware

[JLHPROF]

13 minutes ago, Bobbieaware said:

According to Paul, God swears an oath (“because he can swear by none greater”) that those who become priests will, if faithful, remain priests forever after the order of Melchizedek. Then those who are ordained to the Melchizedek Priesthood make covenants with the Father to abide by the laws governing the priesthood so that the divine power and authority they have received might be fully activated and realized.

So the Oath is from God to man.
The covenant is between man and God together.  That's what I posted previously.

[Bobbieaware]

48 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

So the Oath is from God to man.
The covenant is between man and God together.  That's what I posted previously.

Here are the actual words of the oath:

19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:

21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec (Hebrews 7)

Or in other words, ‘I swear that you will rule and reign as a kings and priests or queens and priestesses in the eternal world forever’.

 

[JLHPROF]

12 minutes ago, Bobbieaware said:

Here are the actual words of the oath:

19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:

21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec (Hebrews 7)

Or in other words, ‘I swear that you will rule and reign as a kings and priests or queens and priestesses in the eternal world forever’.

That is God's oath to those who receive these two priesthoods (as good a description of the temple endowment as any).

The covenants are agreements between God and man - the law/blessing balance.

[mfbukowski]

5 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

That is God's oath to those who receive these two priesthoods (as good a description of the temple endowment as any).

The covenants are agreements between God and man - the law/blessing balance.

That's what I thought I said

[Avatar4321]

On 10/26/2017 at 7:06 PM, JLHPROF said:

That is God's oath to those who receive these two priesthoods (as good a description of the temple endowment as any).

The covenants are agreements between God and man - the law/blessing balance.

I can't figure out why I never realized the Temple connection wit the oath and covenant before

[JLHPROF]

5 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

I can't figure out why I never realized the Temple connection wit the oath and covenant before

So few people seem to realise that priesthood is given in the temple, even if no office is conferred (although one is promised).  But everyone who enters the temple receives the priesthood garment, priesthood robes, and keys for Aaronic and Melchizedek knowledge and power.  The temple is directly connected to priesthood, and it's a higher priesthood than any church calling (according to Joseph Smith).

[Avatar4321]

So why do we become the sons of Moses and Aaron?

[Avatar4321]

What does the renewal of our bodies entail? Is it in this life or just the resurrection

[janderich]

Some have thought that the renewal of our bodies did not just apply to the resurrection. Orson Pratt said: 

Quote

“When the Temple is built [in the New Jerusalem] the sons of the two Priesthoods [Melchizedek and Aaronic] . . . will enter into that Temple . . . and all of them who are pure in heart will behold the face of the Lord and that too before he comes in his glory in the clouds of heaven, for he will suddenly come to his Temple, and he will purify the sons of Moses and of Aaron, until they shall be prepared to offer in that Temple an offering that shall be acceptable in the sight of the Lord. In doing this, he will purify not only the minds of the Priesthood in that Temple, but he will purify their bodies until they shall be quickened, and renewed and strengthened, and they will be partially changed, not to immortality, but changed in part that they can be filled with the power of God, and they can stand in the presence of Jesus, and behold his face in the midst of that Temple. “This will prepare them for further ministrations among the nations of the earth, it will prepare them to go forth in the days of tribulation and vengeance upon the nations of the wicked, when God will smite them with pestilence, plague and earthquake, such as former generations never knew. (Journal of Discourses 15:365-366)

 

[Avatar4321]

20 hours ago, janderich said:

Some have thought that the renewal of our bodies did not just apply to the resurrection. Orson Pratt said: 

 

That is an awesome quote. Something to ponder

[mfbukowski]

On 11/6/2017 at 10:44 PM, Avatar4321 said:

What does the renewal of our bodies entail? Is it in this life or just the resurrection

Here.

Why do you think all our apostles live longer than average while carrying work loads of young men?

There is a reason most people retire around 65, you just can't do it anymore, it is a fact if life.

Even temple workers work on well into their 80's in many occasions.

Edited November 8, 2017 by mfbukowski

[Avatar4321]

been thinking of the oath and covenant today. Well alot lately

the fulness of the priesthood is is manifest in the new and everlasting covenant of marriage. Wouldn't that mean to magnify our priesthood we need to magnify our marriage and family and place them first?

is it any wonder why the proclamation on the family is so vital to our faith? It represents the fulness of the priesthood

[Avatar4321]

On ‎11‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 2:12 AM, Avatar4321 said:

So why do we become the sons of Moses and Aaron?

what exactly do the sons of Moses have to do with the priesthood?