california boy Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 How about this article. I am trying to understand the straight community. Can anyone explain to me why the straight community does these kinds of things? Quote Man Tortured His Girlfriend’s 8-Year-Old Son to Death Because He Thought Boy Was Gay: Prosecutor October 17, 2017 | 10:46am An L.A. County District Attorney says 32-year-old Isauro Aguirre fatally tortured his girlfriend’s 8-year-old son because he thought the kid was gay. The boy’s mother, Pearl Fernandez, was an accomplice and also faces trial. KTLA reports: Prosecutor Jon Hatami detailed the acts allegedly committed by Aguirre and the boy’s mother, Pearl Fernandez, who also faces trial. Hatami explained that the Palmdale couple beat Gabriel, bit him, burned him with cigarettes, whipped him, shot him with a B.B. gun, starved him, fed him cat litter, and kept him gagged and bound in a small cubby until he was found on May 22, 2013. The couple called first responders to treat Gabriel, but that was only in an attempt to mislead, the prosecutor said. “They didn’t call 911 to help Gabriel. They called 911 to cover up what they did,” Hatami said. “The defendant lied on the 911 call.” The boy was hospitalized and died two days later… …The prosecutor said that Aguirre made Gabriel dress up in girls’ clothes and go to school. He added that Aguirre just didn’t like Gabriel and thought the boy was gay, and that was his motivation for his treatment of the child. Aguirre’s attorney John Allan said that his client never intended the boy to die, a claim the prosecutor disputes: “He is guilty of murder, but the special circumstance alleged, that he intended kill Gabriel with the infliction of torture, is not true,” Allan said. “Despite the horrific abuse, Isauro never intended for Gabriel to die,” he said. Hatami showed the jury text messages between Aguirre and the boy’s mother and said they prove the couple conspired together to torture and kill Gabriel. The texts also show that the couple tried to conceal their actions against the boy in order to prevent anyone knowing that they were harming him, according to Hatami. Maybe that couple needed to realize that a little understanding of an 8 year old kid that might be a little different than them would have been helpful. 1
Gray Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, smac97 said: Again: "It’s so important to have representation and normalize all the letters in LGBTQIA+ in everyday lives." Are you saying this is not being given to us as a "representation?" Not of "the whole LGBT movement," but of some portion of it? Moreover, Fred Phelps and his group are pariahs. They are not supported or endorsed or celebrated, and are instead condemned and disowned, by the vast majority of "religious conservatives." So are you suggesting that this drag queen is likewise a pariah in the "LGBT movement?" Thanks, -Smac It's one library in Long Beach, Smac, and one drag queen. No one person represents an entire movement, and no one library represents all libraries. If Xochi Mochi starts protesting Christian funerals in baphometic drag, I'm sure you'll start seeing some real uproar. As it is, this is just red meat to get the base worked up. 2
Gray Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 1 minute ago, california boy said: How about this article. I am trying to understand the straight community. Can anyone explain to me why the straight community does these kinds of things? Maybe that couple needed to realize that a little understanding of an 8 year old kid that might be a little different than them would have been helpful. Exactly.
california boy Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, smac97 said: For the fifth time: What responses to this story are, in your view, within the spectrum of propriety? What sort of response do LGBTQ+ folks expect to elicit with such things? Again, please stop trying to personalize this thread. What, in your mind, is "outrageous" about this story? Thanks, -Smac Ah how about we might be a little different than you but quit killing us? 1
smac97 Posted October 18, 2017 Author Posted October 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, Gray said: It's one library in Long Beach, Smac, and one drag queen. Actually, I linked to two stories, one in Long Beach and one in Brooklyn. And there's a website: https://www.dragqueenstoryhour.org/, which has an "Upcoming Events" section showing events in Los Angeles, New York City, San Francisco and North New Jersey. 5 minutes ago, Gray said: No one person represents an entire movement, and no one library represents all libraries. I acknowledge that. 5 minutes ago, Gray said: If Xochi Mochi starts protesting Christian funerals in baphometic drag, I'm sure you'll start seeing some real uproar. As it is, this is just red meat to get the base worked up. What responses to this story are, in your view, within the spectrum of propriety? What sort of response do LGBTQ+ folks expect to such things? Thanks, -Smac
snowflake Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 24 minutes ago, california boy said: Another good one. Obviously this guy's soul is lost to Satan because you know what kind of person he is and how he treats others. Nothing says I am an evil person who has lost his soul to Satan because of the way I dress. Matthew 6: 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. 1
smac97 Posted October 18, 2017 Author Posted October 18, 2017 9 minutes ago, california boy said: Ah how about we might be a little different than you but quit killing us? I'll take that as a response to the second question. As to the first, here it is again: What responses to this story are, in your view, within the spectrum of propriety? Thanks, -Smac
california boy Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 Another article for us to understand the straight community better. The one above was from yesterday. This one is from today Quote Flyers Encouraging LGBT Kids to Commit Suicide Posted at Cleveland State University On Day it Opens LGBT Center By Karen Farkas, cleveland.com kfarkas@cleveland.com CLEVELAND, Ohio - A flier encouraging Cleveland State University's LGBTQ students to consider suicide spurred a larger discussion about First Amendment rights and hate speech on the college campus. The flier was posted Thursday on a billboard in the Main Classroom building and was removed as soon as officials were notified, said CSU spokesman Will Dube. However, Dube said Tuesday that the flier would still be up if the person had followed the proper procedure to post a notice. "According to the legal framework related to free speech it would have been allowed," he said. President Ronald Berkman issued a statement to the campus community on Monday that came under fire because it didn't address the content of the flier but said CSU "will continue to protect free speech to ensure all voices may be heard." Berkman issued another statement Tuesday saying that he "wanted to acknowledge that yesterday I failed to express my personal outrage over a recent incident involving an anti-LGBTQ+ poster." "While I find the message of this poster reprehensible, the current legal framework regarding free speech makes it difficult to prevent these messages from being disseminated." he wrote. "However, let me make it clear that I am committed to promoting a safe and inclusive campus for all members of our community. I recognize this incident has created significant concern around the campus." He and staff will hold a meeting at 2 p.m. Wednesday in the Main Classroom Auditorium for students to discuss concerns. A CSU student is organizing a gathering of students at 11:30 a.m. Thursday to let Berkman know that "Hate Speech is not Free Speech." The incident may have been prompted by the opening of CSU's new LGBTQ+ center in the building last week. An open house was held on Thursday. Someone posted the flier the same day. "It was taken down as soon as it was realized they did not follow the proper procedure for posting and had not gotten approval to post," Dube said. Flyers must have an approval stamp. Dube said it is not known who posted the flier and no information could be found on Fascist Solutions, the name at the bottom. CSU police also investigated, he said. The original flier was covered with another that had an illustration of a white man and woman above the words, "We have a right to exist," according to OhioFusion.com, an advocate for LGBTQ issues. In May, a similar anti-LGBTQ flyer was found at a bus stop in Houston, the website said. Vice President for Student Affairs Boyd Yarbrough met with LGBTQ students on Friday, Dube said. On Monday, Berkman released his first statement. How about quit trying to hope that we will die? 1
california boy Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, snowflake said: Matthew 6: 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. Well thank you for that. Obviously if you are gay and dress up, you follow mammon. Of course you already knew that because he is gay.
smac97 Posted October 18, 2017 Author Posted October 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, california boy said: Another article for us to understand the straight community better. The one above was from yesterday. This one is from today How about quit trying to hope that we will die? Please dispense with the absurd and false accusations. What responses to this story are, in your view, within the spectrum of propriety? Thanks, -Smac
smac97 Posted October 18, 2017 Author Posted October 18, 2017 18 minutes ago, california boy said: How about this article. I am trying to understand the straight community. Can anyone explain to me why the straight community does these kinds of things? Quote Man Tortured His Girlfriend’s 8-Year-Old Son to Death Because He Thought Boy Was Gay: Prosecutor Maybe that couple needed to realize that a little understanding of an 8 year old kid that might be a little different than them would have been helpful. I don't think "the straight community does these kinds of things." Nor does the "straight community" condone or celebrate "these kinds of things." Instead, the entire community criminalizes "these kinds of things," and prosecutes and punishes the perpetrators where possible. I fail to see any sort of parallel or relevance between this story and the one in the OP. Thanks, -Smac 2
california boy Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, smac97 said: Please dispense with the absurd and false accusations. What responses to this story are, in your view, within the spectrum of propriety? Thanks, -Smac For you, it is absurd. For many in the gay community it is a daily reality. The response in my view that is totally appropriate is to show in a very visual way that WE ARE NOT ALL ALIKE. So quit killing us. Quit beating us up. Quit denying us our civil rights. Quit demonizing us every chance you get. Quit telling us we all serve Mammon. Quit judging us by what we wear or who we date. Quit pretending that what one person does in NYC or LA does not represent every person on earth. Quit starting threads that you know are inflammatory. Should I begin to start threads about all the outrageous things straight people do? Because I could start one just about every single day. Would it be helpful if I asked the question, "Why do straight people go around killing 8 year old children" 1
california boy Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 45 minutes ago, smac97 said: I don't think "the straight community does these kinds of things." Nor does the "straight community" condone or celebrate "these kinds of things." Instead, the entire community criminalizes "these kinds of things," and prosecutes and punishes the perpetrators where possible. I fail to see any sort of parallel or relevance between this story and the one in the OP. Thanks, -Smac Of course the straight people do those kinds of things. It is reported just about every single day. Why do you like your story and dismiss mine? The parallel? Really? You can't see why you picked the most outrageous story about the gay community you could find for the day and post it on a Mormon Board to discuss how far off the deep end the gay community is because LOOK AT THIS GUY. Edit. These kinds of things means straight religious church goers are killing, beating up and brutalizing gay people on a regular basis. Do you want me to post more stories from just the past week? And you want to belittle a story about teaching diversity? This thread isn't likely to last long but you will be removed from the thread if you continue to derail. 2
Analytics Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, smac97 said: I'll take that as a response to the second question. As to the first, here it is again: What responses to this story are, in your view, within the spectrum of propriety? Thanks, -Smac I'll take a stab at addressing your actual questions, although I do find it difficult to understand what you are asking. Responses to this "story" that are within the spectrum of propriety are along the lines of asking, "Is this really a story? Or is it the result of a bigoted culture warrior scanning the internet for something to be upset about?" I can't really comment about the actual event in question because I wasn't there. I vaguely remember events at libraries, schools, and community events were people were dressed up like clowns, mimes, characters from books, or other costumes. From what I can gather, I categorize this event in the same way. It appears the people who were there liked it and thought it was a good experience that helped people see the world in new ways and helped people have more empathy for other people. Beyond that, I can't really say much about it because, again, I wasn't there. I do find it depressing and mildly upsetting that other people who weren't there are writing prejudiced, sensationalistic blog entries about it (these blog entries are quite literally based on prejudice--on preconceived notions of what was actually said and done rather than the actual experience of going to the library and hearing what was said). These blog entries appear designed to stir up fear and hate. 2
Pete Ahlstrom Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 24 minutes ago, california boy said: How about this article. I am trying to understand the straight community. Can anyone explain to me why the straight community does these kinds of things? Maybe that couple needed to realize that a little understanding of an 8 year old kid that might be a little different than them would have been helpful. My heart breaks for this poor innocent kid who was brought into this world only to suffer at the hands of two monsters. Prison doesn't seem to be enough for these two if the above facts are true. 1
smac97 Posted October 18, 2017 Author Posted October 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, california boy said: Of course the straight people do those kinds of things. It is reported just about every single day. "Straight people" commit crimes? Yes, I concede that. Those crimes are then prosecuted. There is no celebration of them. No endorsement. People do bad things, and society at large condemns those bad things. 4 minutes ago, california boy said: Why do you like your story and dismiss mine? Your "story" does not seem relevant. 4 minutes ago, california boy said: The parallel? Really? You can't see why you picked the most outrageous story about the gay community you could find for the day and post it on a Mormon Board to discuss how far off the deep end the gay community is because LOOK AT THIS GUY. Again: What responses to this story are, in your view, within the spectrum of propriety? Thanks, -Smac 1
snowflake Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 21 minutes ago, california boy said: Well thank you for that. Obviously if you are gay and dress up, you follow mammon. Of course you already knew that because he is gay. This man has either submitted to Christ as Lord or he hasn't, by going to the library and promoting the LGBTQ agenda i am assuming that he has not given his life to Christ. But you are correct i am assuming this.
bluebell Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 I haven't read any of the thread so I don't know what else has been said. For me, i wouldn't care if a drag queen read a story to my preschoolers at all. But I wouldn't want a demonic drag queen (or a demonic anything) to be interacting with my preschoolers at all. That just seems like all kinds of messed up to be putting kids that age in the presence of someone with that look. 1
smac97 Posted October 18, 2017 Author Posted October 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, Analytics said: I'll take a stab at addressing your actual questions, although I do find it difficult to understand what you are asking. Responses to this "story" that are within the spectrum of propriety are along the lines of asking, "Is this really a story? Or is it the result of a bigoted culture warrior scanning the internet for something to be upset about?" A news search for this story shows that stories about drag queens reading to children in libraries are presently being reported by Long Beach Press Telegram, AOL, TheBlaze.com, PinkNews.com, Tribune-Review, Patch.com, CBS Los Angeles, WND.com, STLtoday.com, MRCTV, Lawrence Journal World, WABE 90.1 FM, fox4kc.com, Atlas Obscura, Indianapolis Star, Smithsonian, HuffPost, Camrose Canadia, Los Angeles Times, New York Times, CBS News, National Review, Access Atlanta, Yorkton This Week, and dozens and dozens of other news outlets. So yes, this seems to be a story. And no, I didn't "scan the internet." I saw it on a newsfeed. And no, I'm not "bigoted." 5 minutes ago, Analytics said: I can't really comment about the actual event in question because I wasn't there. You comment about events to which you were not a percipient witness all the time. That's pretty much most of what we do here when we debate various facets of Mormonism. Nevertheless, I won't press you or anyone else to comment. It's a free country. 5 minutes ago, Analytics said: I vaguely remember events at libraries, schools, and community events were people were dressed up like clowns, mimes, characters from books, or other costumes. From what I can gather, I categorize this event in the same way. It appears the people who were there liked it and thought it was a good experience that helped people see the world in new ways and helped people have more empathy for other people. Beyond that, I can't really say much about it because, again, I wasn't there. Fine. You can't comment. 5 minutes ago, Analytics said: I do find it depressing and mildly upsetting that other people who weren't there are writing prejudiced, sensationalistic blog entries about it (these blog entries are quite literally based on prejudice--on preconceived notions of what was actually said and done rather than the actual experience of going to the library and hearing what was said). These blog entries appear designed to stir up fear and hate. Here is a link to the dozens and dozens of stories about it. From PinkNews: Quote A demon drag queen has entertained children at the Michelle Obama public library. The library in Long Beach, California, invited a drag queen replete in glorious red-tipped horns to read stories to the delighted kids. The guest of honour was wonderful queen Xochi Mochi, whose bold outfit choice wowed attendees. A colourful poster was made for the event, which was advertised as “Drag Queen Story Hour”. Drag Queen Story Hour aims to give young children “glamorous, positive, and unabashedly queer role models,” according to the programme’s website. As you can probably imagine, some people weren’t happy with the event. And they took to Twitter to express their opinions on the unconventional reading. ... However, many people were thrilled to see inclusivity being promoted amongst young people. And they posted their positive posts to make sure their voices were heard. ... The Drag Queen Story Hour site explains that the event “captures the imagination and play of the gender fluidity of childhood”. “In spaces like this, kids are able to see people who defy rigid gender restrictions and imagine a world where people can present as they wish, where dress up is real. The programme “happens regularly in LA, New York, and San Francisco, and events are popping up all over the world!” ... The event was part of a collaboration between the Long Beach Public Library, the LGBTQ Center of Long Beach, the Genders and Sexualities Alliance Network and the LGBTQ nonprofit Imperial Court of Long Beach. Thanks, -Smac
Atheist Mormon Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 Quote Meanwhile, at the Long Beach Public Library... Looks normal to me....It's Halloween, isn't it?
Storm Rider Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 2 hours ago, Gray said: Look, the story is silly. I wouldn't take my child to this. But I love this quote from your source: As part of the ongoing radicalization of the American right wing, the propaganda ministry is scaring its followers away from dangerous places like libraries and colleges, where learning takes place. I just wish they'd limit themselves to two minutes of hate, but the people undergoing right wing radicalization seem to be consuming this kind of material all day every day, amping themselves up full of hate and fear. learning takes place in universities? Hmm, what type of open minded learning are you talking about? The only thing I see in universities is group think - you must think just like I think or you will be shut up, harassed, and prevented from any form of communication. Why? Because your different way of thinking hurts "my" feelings. Pot, meet Kettle. I love the hypocrisy of the Left. 3
Analytics Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, smac97 said: A news search for this story shows that stories about drag queens reading to children in libraries are presently being reported by Long Beach Press Telegram, AOL, TheBlaze.com, PinkNews.com, Tribune-Review, Patch.com, CBS Los Angeles, WND.com, STLtoday.com, MRCTV, Lawrence Journal World, WABE 90.1 FM, fox4kc.com, Atlas Obscura, Indianapolis Star, Smithsonian, HuffPost, Camrose Canadia, Los Angeles Times, New York Times, CBS News, National Review, Access Atlanta, Yorkton This Week, and dozens and dozens of other news outlets. So yes, this seems to be a story. And no, I didn't "scan the internet." I saw it on a newsfeed. And no, I'm not "bigoted." For the record, you didn't lead with a story from a reputable news source. You lead with a blog entry from a prejudiced culture warrior. You asked how people should respond to that, didn't you? I offered my opinion about how I think you, or anybody else, should respond to that. I thought that is what you asked. How you should respond to a story from a reputable news source that is sincerely trying to be insightful and fair is something else. If that is what you are asking about, your response should be a sincere attempt to understand why the library did this, and why, apparently, the kids and parents in attendance liked it and actually thought it was a positive thing. 2
Pete Ahlstrom Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 6 minutes ago, Storm Rider said: learning takes place in universities? Hmm, what type of open minded learning are you talking about? The only thing I see in universities is group think - you must think just like I think or you will be shut up, harassed, and prevented from any form of communication. Why? Because your different way of thinking hurts "my" feelings. Pot, meet Kettle. I love the hypocrisy of the Left. I think there is a danger of group think on all sides. Having said that, it sure is troubling how some on the left want to violently shut down speech, even at Berkeley. How about we bring back the 1st amendment and tolerate each other a little more? 2
california boy Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 I need to take a little break. Obviously I am so sick and tired of these kinds of judgements and yes attacks on the gay community by Mormons that I have a difficult time expressing myself in a rational way Before I take a break however, I want each and every one of you that reads this post that this is a very real issue for just about everyone who is gay. Imagine what it is like to come to the self realization that you are not like everyone else. That no matter how much your churches, your leaders, your parents, your family your friends want you to be just the same as them, it is never going to happen. You are always going to be different. You are always going to be that gay guy. You are always going to be a target just because of who you are. You are always going to be judged. And the judgement is always the same. You choose Satan over God. You are gay so you must live the lifestyle that Satan has chosen for his followers. Here are a few scriptures that I want to give to show you how evil you are. Everything you do is judged on the gay litmus. People have a right to tell you who you should marry and who you shouldn't. People have a right to not bake your. wedding cakes. There is even a "gay panic defense" that sometimes justifying us killing you. We know we can blackmail you, harass you and hound you that you may feel the only way out is suicide. So any story where diversity might be the lesson should be immediately put up as a dog whistle for all those that want to continue the treatment of gay people. We can't let people start to believe that it is normal for some to be gay. Not all gay people react to this very real environment the same way. Some hide for their whole lives. Some come out waving flags and not caring who knows they are gay or care what they think. Some dress up in the most outlandish way possible to make this statement one that can not be overlooked. And some parents see value in showing their kids that it is ok to be different than anyone else. In fact it can be quite wondrous. Tom Christopherson said in the video that the church showed about his life that he knew he was different when he was 5 years old. This kid was killed when he was 8 years old because his parents thought he too was different. I knew I was gay when I was 12 years old. The fact is, very few parents know whether their kid is different than others even at 5 years old. So when is it too early to instill in their minds that just because you are different does not mean you don't have value. So I will bow out of this discussion for a while. Go ahead and throw your fiery darts at the gay community. Give them your best judgements you can possibly give. Quote some more scripture about how evil they are and how they are against God. Throw in a few abominations at just the right time. This much I am sure of. The Mormon Church is not done attacking the gay community, and the members are more than willing to rally around their church leaders who lead the way. 3
Analytics Posted October 18, 2017 Posted October 18, 2017 22 minutes ago, smac97 said: You comment about events to which you were not a percipient witness all the time. That's pretty much most of what we do here when we debate various facets of Mormonism. That is a fair point, but this does seem to be a bit different. Your original quotations and links were sensationalistic editorials and propaganda about a community event in a local public library. How are you supposed to judge an event at a local public library 1,500 miles away? Maybe it was a great event. Maybe it fell flat. Maybe it was a disaster. If we want to have an honest conversation about such things we can, but it should be based on facts rather than sensationalistic blog entries.
Recommended Posts