Church acquires another pIece of the original Book of Mormon manuscript

[bsjkki]

Thank you Scott Lloyd for this article. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865687831/LDS-Church-History-Department-announces-newly-found-fragment-of-original-Book-of-Mormon-manuscript.html I do not remember hearing the stories about what happened to the original Book of Mormon transcript and never was curious about it before. 

Edited August 31, 2017 by bsjkki

[hagoth7]

.

Edited August 31, 2017 by hagoth7

[Calm]

Nice...

"Neilson commented, “When I see fragments of the original Book of Mormon manuscript, I’m reminded that it takes heavenly help and mortal messengers to bring the divine down to earth. This is a collaborative effort … in this case a collaboration between an angel and a fairly young man. It’s a reminder of the marvel that so many early Latter-day Saints discovered and celebrated, that the divine still is present in our lives. ... It’s the intersection of the sacred and the profane, the worldly and the spiritual, the divine and the human.”"

[Robert F. Smith]

15 hours ago, hagoth7 said:

.

See also Scott's comment at http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/69503-book-of-mormon-original-manuscript-being-readied-for-publication/?tab=comments#comment-1209750710 .

 

[Robert F. Smith]

17 hours ago, bsjkki said:

Thank you Scott Lloyd for this article. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865687831/LDS-Church-History-Department-announces-newly-found-fragment-of-original-Book-of-Mormon-manuscript.html I do not remember hearing the stories about what happened to the original Book of Mormon transcript and never was curious about it before. 

Over half-a-century ago, when he was a grad student at BYU, Jeffrey R. Holland, wrote a couple of papers in which he looked at changes in the Book of Mormon over time, 

Holland, Jeffrey R., "Some Changes in the Book of Mormon, 1830-1920," graduate Religion 622 research paper (BYU, Aug 15, 1965).

Holland, Jeffrey R., "An Analysis of Selected Changes in Major Editions of the Book of Mormon, 1830-1920," master's thesis," (BYU, 1966).

Almost a decade later, Stanley R. Larson began a long series of articles on the meaning of the Original and Printer's Manuscripts of the Book of Mormon with his important master's thesis:

Larson, Stanley R., "A Study of Some Textual Variations in the Book of Mormon, Comparing the Original and Printer's MSS., and Comparing the 1830, 1837, and 1840 Editiions," master's thesis (BYU, 1974).

Larson, Stanley R., "Changes in the Early Texts of the Book of Mormon," Ensign, 6/9 (Sept 1976):77-82; FARMS reprint LAR-76.

Larson, Stanley R., "'A Most Sacred Possession': The Original Manuscript of the Book of Mormon," Ensign, 7/9 (Sept 1977):87-91.

Such studies led to the enormous and very successful FARMS Book of Mormon Critical Text Project, now in its 5th decade.

[rongo]

3 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Almost a decade later, Stanley R. Larson began a long series of articles on the meaning of the Original and Printer's Manuscripts of the Book of Mormon with his important master's thesis:

Larson, Stanley R., "A Study of Some Textual Variations in the Book of Mormon, Comparing the Original and Printer's MSS., and Comparing the 1830, 1837, and 1840 Editiions," master's thesis (BYU, 1974).

Larson, Stanley R., "Changes in the Early Texts of the Book of Mormon," Ensign, 6/9 (Sept 1976):77-82; FARMS reprint LAR-76.

Larson, Stanley R., "'A Most Sacred Possession': The Original Manuscript of the Book of Mormon," Ensign, 7/9 (Sept 1977):87-91.

Do you know why Stan Larson's Ensign articles have been removed? One of my first forays into apologetics involved trying to read his Ensign articles, and the Ensigns list the titles but they are dead links (or, at least, they were in the early 2000s).

Is he apostate?

[bsjkki]

4 hours ago, rongo said:

Do you know why Stan Larson's Ensign articles have been removed? One of my first forays into apologetics involved trying to read his Ensign articles, and the Ensigns list the titles but they are dead links (or, at least, they were in the early 2000s).

Is he apostate?

I tried to find his articles and could not.  In the LDS.org search box, I could find references for a Stan Larson article in the September 1977 Ensign but the 1977 version on lds.org does not contain the article. Is there anyplace that copied the original Ensign magazines? I always find it interesting when the original records/magazines have been modified.

Edited to add: He wrote a book called Quest for the Gold Plates that may be problematic and why his other articles were removed.

Edited September 1, 2017 by bsjkki

[Robert F. Smith]

5 hours ago, rongo said:

Do you know why Stan Larson's Ensign articles have been removed? One of my first forays into apologetics involved trying to read his Ensign articles, and the Ensigns list the titles but they are dead links (or, at least, they were in the early 2000s).

Is he apostate?

Yes, he is an apostate.  I was unaware that his articles had been removed, even though they are listed as contents:

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1976/09/contents?lang=eng lists his Sept 1976 article

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1977/09/contents?lang=eng lists his Sept 1977 article.

I couldn't find them on the Wayback Machine, but they will still be available in the original copies of the magazine.  He has many other articles still available in other magazines:

Larson, Stanley R., "Textual Variants in the Book of Mormon Manuscripts," Dialogue, 10/4 (Aut 1977):8-30.  FARMS Reprint LAR-77.  Online at https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V10N04_10.pdf .

Larson, Stanley R., "Conjectural Emendation and the Text of the Book of Mormon," BYU Studies, 18 (Summer 1978):563-569, online at https://byustudies.byu.edu/content/conjectural-emendation-and-text-book-mormon .

[Okrahomer]

2 hours ago, bsjkki said:

I tried to find his articles and could not.  In the LDS.org search box, I could find references for a Stan Larson article in the September 1977 Ensign but the 1977 version on lds.org does not contain the article. Is there anyplace that copied the original Ensign magazines? I always find it interesting when the original records/magazines have been modified.

Edited to add: He wrote a book called Quest for the Gold Plates that may be problematic and why his other articles were removed.

His Masters thesis is available for download in the BYU Scholars Archive.

[rongo]

8 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Yes, he is an apostate.  I was unaware that his articles had been removed, even though they are listed as contents:

That's weird, though. Even though he is now an apostate, and has published writings against the Church, his 70s Ensign articles were faithful. Why remove the articles (unless Stan was saber-rattling about lawsuits or something)? 

[Robert F. Smith]

37 minutes ago, rongo said:

That's weird, though. Even though he is now an apostate, and has published writings against the Church, his 70s Ensign articles were faithful. Why remove the articles (unless Stan was saber-rattling about lawsuits or something)? 

I agree.  It was silly to remove them.

[rongo]

1 minute ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I agree.  It was silly to remove them.

It just makes it look like the Church was afraid of content in those articles, when the content was very benign and pro-Church (analyzing changes between the 1st edition and the 1981 edition). 

It reminds me of the (very brief) photoshopping in the now-gone temple movie. For like a few weeks, the head of the actor who had become a public gay marriage advocate was replaced by a Polynesian guy's head. And then the film was permanently removed. It was weird and jarring!

I would have continued to use it. It's the property of the Church, and he supported and consented when he participated in it, even if his new stance was opposed. I honestly don't know if he threatened legal action, or if the Church just didn't want anything with a now-apostate in it. 

The Stan Larson article removals strike me as the same. I don't know whether he insisted on them being removed, or the Church didn't want articles accessible because of his new stance. 

[bsjkki]

2 hours ago, rongo said:

It just makes it look like the Church was afraid of content in those articles, when the content was very benign and pro-Church (analyzing changes between the 1st edition and the 1981 edition). 

It reminds me of the (very brief) photoshopping in the now-gone temple movie. For like a few weeks, the head of the actor who had become a public gay marriage advocate was replaced by a Polynesian guy's head. And then the film was permanently removed. It was weird and jarring!

I would have continued to use it. It's the property of the Church, and he supported and consented when he participated in it, even if his new stance was opposed. I honestly don't know if he threatened legal action, or if the Church just didn't want anything with a now-apostate in it. 

The Stan Larson article removals strike me as the same. I don't know whether he insisted on them being removed, or the Church didn't want articles accessible because of his new stance. 

From my research, it looks like there are no plans to image the original Ensigns from 1971-2000. The online versions are edited and content is removed. The explanation is because of copyright issues and permission to publish online. Stan Larson may not have given permission to publish his articles. I didn't look to see if there was a fine print explanation that content from the original magazine may not be available. https://tech.lds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27834 

[Calm]

I have seen exmormons point to their writings or roles as faithful members to bolster their credibility as 'experts'.  It is possible the Church was concerned about that.

[Scott Lloyd]

On 9/1/2017 at 8:12 AM, rongo said:

It just makes it look like the Church was afraid of content in those articles, when the content was very benign and pro-Church (analyzing changes between the 1st edition and the 1981 edition). 

It reminds me of the (very brief) photoshopping in the now-gone temple movie. For like a few weeks, the head of the actor who had become a public gay marriage advocate was replaced by a Polynesian guy's head. And then the film was permanently removed. It was weird and jarring!

I would have continued to use it. It's the property of the Church, and he supported and consented when he participated in it, even if his new stance was opposed. I honestly don't know if he threatened legal action, or if the Church just didn't want anything with a now-apostate in it. 

The Stan Larson article removals strike me as the same. I don't know whether he insisted on them being removed, or the Church didn't want articles accessible because of his new stance. 

Who was the actor whose head was switched?

[rongo]

10 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Who was the actor whose head was switched?

I don't know his name. He played John. I learned through the FAIR list (I was a FAIR member at that time) that he was a gay marriage activist, and that that was probably the reason for replacing his head with a Polynesian guy's (and then later, getting rid of the film altogether). Whether at his own behest, or the Church's, I don't know.

It was the darndest thing, though. We were at a session, and I was sitting next to a guy from my ward. I whispered to him, "Hey, look at John's face!" He was flabbergasted.

I think the Polynesian-guy-head-Photoshopping only lasted 2-3 weeks, if memory serves. 

[ALarson]

1 hour ago, rongo said:

I don't know his name. He played John. I learned through the FAIR list (I was a FAIR member at that time) that he was a gay marriage activist, and that that was probably the reason for replacing his head with a Polynesian guy's (and then later, getting rid of the film altogether). Whether at his own behest, or the Church's, I don't know.

It was the darndest thing, though. We were at a session, and I was sitting next to a guy from my ward. I whispered to him, "Hey, look at John's face!" He was flabbergasted.

I think the Polynesian-guy-head-Photoshopping only lasted 2-3 weeks, if memory serves. 

You can do a google search for "gay actor temple movie mormon" and several links come up with info.  I only clicked on one and read the story there (more info may be given at some of the other links):

http://holyfetch.com/actor-removed-from-temple-film/

Did the actor who played Joseph Smith in the movie Legacy come out as being gay as well?  I think I remember something about that....

Edited September 11, 2017 by ALarson