Jeanne Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 4 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said: Johnnie Cake/Craig Paxton/Your Other Sockpuppets/Whoever You Are: Along with CMZ, I would have no problem with your going skiing, nor with your choosing to do so on Sunday, nor even with your foregoing church attendance. You have your agency, after all: you may use it how you wish, and you're certainly not accountable to me for how you do so. More power to you. I'm glad you enjoyed your day. As CMZ points out, there are plenty of us who go to Church on Sunday ... and ski on one (or more) of the other days of the week. My feelings about going to and being in church, however, even (and in some ways, especially) being there for three hours have changed drastically over the last 18 months I have spent largely in exile from my home ward due to my work schedule. (My enforced exile has blessed me with the insight that, with all due respect, the "take-a-sabbatical-from-church" crowd is nuts! ) Yes, sometimes the three-hour block gets long. Yes, some weeks, it is better than others. But if I go to church as an empty vessel expecting to be filled, almost invariably, I am apt to be disappointed. If I go to church as a (at least somewhat) filled vessel offering to replenish others' vessels in whatever modest ways I can, I find (perhaps paradoxically, in some ways) that I am more (ful)filled. See also Matthew 10:39. What I don't get, though, is your seemingly-irresistible urge (and make no mistake: it still comes through, your editing of the post notwithstanding) to sneer at Latter-day Saints and the things they hold sacred. Yes, it is possible to feel the Spirit's influence in places other than church (almost anywhere, in fact). According to the Christian paradigm, God created the world, after all. You had a good day. Great! Congratulations! You were one with Nature. Great! Congratulations! Now, if you'd left out the hint of sneering condescension (in the fellowship forum, no less) ... And it's said that Latter-day Saints have a problem with being holier-than-thou: maybe some (perhaps many) of us do, but as your post proves ... again, editing notwithstanding ... we're not the only ones who do. Just sayin'! P.S.: Why is it that I hear only the disaffected use the phrase "burning in the bosom," and then, only to sneer? I can't remember the last time I heard a conversant, observant Latter-day Saint use it. Most all Latter-day Saints don't bother trying to reduce a transcendent experience to words, because they know that's futile, anyway. Maybe I hang out with a weird crowd, but the only phrase I've heard with any regularity with reference to that experience is simply, "I feel the Spirit." Am I to presume that I am one of the sockpuppets? Perhaps I am a witch. Your respect for others leaves you surely without the spirit.
bluebell Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 Let's talk about how no one could possible feel the spirit while skiing because skiing is horrible! 1
JAHS Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 9 minutes ago, Jeanne said: This is sad...I meant to make you smile and still I get preached to. Yeah, I had a feeling that what I said did sound a little preachy, but it was what I was thinking at the time about the whole subject so out it came. 1
Johnnie Cake Posted January 30, 2017 Author Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said: Johnnie Cake/Craig Paxton/Your Other Sockpuppets/Whoever You Are: Along with CMZ, I would have no problem with your going skiing, nor with your choosing to do so on Sunday, nor even with your foregoing church attendance. You have your agency, after all: you may use it how you wish, and you're certainly not accountable to me for how you do so. More power to you. I'm glad you enjoyed your day. As CMZ points out, there are plenty of us who go to Church on Sunday ... and ski on one (or more) of the other days of the week. My feelings about going to and being in church, however, even (and in some ways, especially) being there for three hours have changed drastically over the last 18 months I have spent largely in exile from my home ward due to my work schedule. (My enforced exile has blessed me with the insight that, with all due respect, the "take-a-sabbatical-from-church" crowd is nuts! ) Yes, sometimes the three-hour block gets long. Yes, some weeks, it is better than others. But if I go to church as an empty vessel expecting to be filled, almost invariably, I am apt to be disappointed. If I go to church as a (at least somewhat) filled vessel offering to replenish others' vessels in whatever modest ways I can, I find (perhaps paradoxically, in some ways) that I am more (ful)filled. See also Matthew 10:39. What I don't get, though, is your seemingly-irresistible urge (and make no mistake: it still comes through, your editing of the post notwithstanding) to sneer at Latter-day Saints and the things they hold sacred. Yes, it is possible to feel the Spirit's influence in places other than church (almost anywhere, in fact). According to the Christian paradigm, God created the world, after all. You had a good day. Great! Congratulations! You were one with Nature. Great! Congratulations! Now, if you'd left out the hint of sneering condescension (in the fellowship forum, no less) ... And it's said that Latter-day Saints have a problem with being holier-than-thou: maybe some (perhaps many) of us do, but as your post proves ... again, editing notwithstanding ... we're not the only ones who do. Just sayin'! P.S.: Why is it that I hear only the disaffected use the phrase "burning in the bosom," and then, only to sneer? I can't remember the last time I heard a conversant, observant Latter-day Saint use it. Most all Latter-day Saints don't bother trying to reduce a transcendent experience to words, because they know that's futile, anyway. Maybe I hang out with a weird crowd, but the only phrase I've heard with any regularity with reference to that experience is simply, "I feel the Spirit." I only have time for one Identity at a time...sorry to disappoint you but I have no sock puppets. With respect to your other point that my post retained a sneering tone...I admit...that my initial pre-edited post was unintentionally snarky, I did my best to edit it so that it would not be offensive to believers. I even added the tag line about respecting those who chose to attend church...which I do. Less people on the slopes. So I'm sorry that my post about celebrating my religion of choice here and sharing my spiritual experience in an LDS themed board offended you... I'm sorry that my religion offends you. BTW. my bosom did burn...it was truly a wonderful day...perhaps it was the elevation...how should I have expressed it so as not to offend you? Edited January 30, 2017 by Johnnie Cake
Kenngo1969 Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jeanne said: Am I to presume that I am one of the sockpuppets? Perhaps I am a witch. Your respect for others leaves you surely without the spirit. You seem to be in offense-taking mode where none of your (potential) interlocutors are in offense-giving mode, my dear. Don't forget the old sayings: She who takes offense where no offense is intended is a fool; with due respect, she who takes offense where offense is intended is an even bigger fool. And never assume: It makes a you-know-what out of you and me. Neither I nor JAHS intended to give offense, and particularly not to you, so my suggestion is, since we're not giving it, simply don't take it! Perhaps your taking umbrage at JAHS's suggestion that church isn't the only place one can have the Spirit illustrates why Latter-day Saints can't win: On the one hand, if we suggest that people must do certain things in order to be able to enjoy the Spirit's companionship on the most consistent basis possible, we're simply being smug, self-righteous, and holier-than-thou/he/she. On the other hand, if we point out that it's possible to have the Spirit in other places and circumstances besides church, we're dismissed as "preaching" to someone. JAHS was attempting to be inclusive rather than exclusive, smug, self-righteous, or holier-than-thou/he/she, so why not, instead of dismissing what he's saying by If you think you are a sockpuppet, then you don't know what a sockpuppet is. You need to understand more about Johnnie Cake's/Craig Paxton's/Whoever-She-Is posting history on the Board to know part of the reason why I react to her the way I do. A sockpuppet is an alternate identity created to thwart banning or other discipline meted out to an on-line poster at a particular board or other on-line community, such as this one. Thus, suppose the mods here were to ban me, and I simply got around their banning of Kenngo1969 by creating another identity, say, UtahJazzFan1969, and continued posting under the new name. UtahJazzFan1969 becomes my "sockpuppet," so called because the intent is to fool moderators and other posters ("Oh, look! UtahJazzFan1969 is new! Welcome to the Board!") when, in reality, I'm not a new poster: I'm simply the same ol' Kenngo1969 under a new assumed name: I control both identities (hence, one is my "sockpuppet"). Edited January 30, 2017 by Kenngo1969
Kenngo1969 Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 21 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: I only have time for one Identity at a time...sorry to disappoint you but I have no sock puppets. Yeah. If one or more of your other identities have been banned, you would have time for only one identity at a time. (Duh!) Quote With respect to your other point that my post retained a sneering tone...I admit...that my initial pre-edited post was unintentionally snarky, I did my best to edit it so that it would not be offensive to believers. OK. I won't question your intent, but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about how successful you were. Quote I even added the tag line about respecting those who chose to attend church...which I do. Less people on the slopes. Not to go all "Grammar Nazi" on you, but more people attending church would mean fewer people on the slopes: "less" is for things one cannot count; fewer is for things one can count. It would be nice if you had enough humility to recognize that you see the world, not as it is, but rather, as you are. Just because you apparently don't get anything out of church doesn't mean no one else does or should. And as shocking as this might be to you, people don't exist solely for your convenience. Quote So I'm sorry that my post about celebrating my religion of choice here and sharing my spiritual experience in an LDS themed board offended you... I'm sorry that my religion offends you. BTW. my bosom did burn...it was truly a wonderful day...perhaps it was the elevation...how should I have expressed it so as not to offend you? Oh, please! Boo-hoo! Big, Mean, Kenngo1969 is picking on poor, defenseless Johnnie Cake! Drop the persecution complex! Skiing, however a worthwhile activity it may be (and since Utah is known both for Mormons and for skiing, you'll probably find a lot of people on the Board who agree with you about that) is not a religion! That said, I won't question that you had a positive response to your experience, or even that you had a spiritual experience. Fine. Good for you. God loves you enough to create this big, beautiful world where you can have a multitude of such experiences, and perhaps you felt what you did as a manifestation of that love. Only you can know that for sure, since it was your experience. Yes, the love of God is one of the things that such experiences can communicate. But it is possible (even likely) for someone to interact with the Holy Spirit in other ways, and for that Spirit to communicate even less abstract, more concrete ideas to that person. As long as your paradigm allows for that possibility, however remote you might think that possibility to be, more power to you. I wish you well.
Atheist Mormon Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 5 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said: And, as if on cue, more sneering! Always nice to see you, Atheist. (Perhaps we should have a separate "Sneering Condescension" folder? ) Thank you......I have no problem with skiing, I don't ski at all, even though I have a place to live in PC. But whomever is having fun (rather than going Church) will have obviously a very high esteem in my eyes.
Johnnie Cake Posted January 30, 2017 Author Posted January 30, 2017 22 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said: Yeah. If one or more of your other identities have been banned, you would have time for only one identity at a time. (Duh!) Who's being snarky now huh? I've only used one identity at a time...I've never used a so called sock puppet to by pass board rules 22 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said: OK. I won't question your intent, but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about how successful you were. But then you do question my intent... 22 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said: Not to go all "Grammar Nazi" on you, but more people attending church would mean fewer people on the slopes: "less" is for things one cannot count; fewer is for things one can count. It would be nice if you had enough humility to recognize that you see the world, not as it is, but rather, as you are. Just because you apparently don't get anything out of church doesn't mean no one else does or should. And as shocking as this might be to you, people don't exist solely for your convenience. But then you do go all Grammer Nazi...and I've already acknowledge in my OP my respect for those that attend church 22 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said: Oh, please! Boo-hoo! Big, Mean, Kenngo1969 is picking on poor, defenseless Johnnie Cake! Drop the persecution complex! Skiing, however a worthwhile activity it may be (and since Utah is known both for Mormons and for skiing, you'll probably find a lot of people on the Board who agree with you about that) is not a religion! A bit dramatic... never thought you were picking on me...I thought we were having a conversation...and no I didn't interpret your comments as persecution...so no need for me to exhibit any persecution complex...was I mistaken? 22 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said: That said, I won't question that you had a positive response to your experience, or even that you had a spiritual experience. Fine. Good for you. God loves you enough to create this big, beautiful world where you can have a multitude of such experiences, and perhaps you felt what you did as a manifestation of that love. Only you can know that for sure, since it was your experience. Yes, the love of God is one of the things that such experiences can communicate. But it is possible (even likely) for someone to interact with the Holy Spirit in other ways, and for that Spirit to communicate even less abstract, more concrete ideas to that person. As long as your paradigm allows for that possibility, however remote you might think that possibility to be, more power to you. I wish you well. Do I sense some jealously?
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