Brooklyn; What kind of thread could this be?

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I was watching a great movie, one without space blasters and almost nothing of special effects, but great acting with a great story line. In the movie, it is all about choices, correct choices despite different world and forces that leave the viewing wondering if all can make the correct (or the best) choices consistent with the best outcome of all concerned.

Enough about the movie...as of late a number of events, eternal to threads of discussion and including threads "in discussion", have left me to wonder if we have lost sight of core common LDS beliefs. 

The core common belief I want to discuss in this thread, is one that sets us apart from so many others. To quote or paraphrase what sets us apart is spelled out in "our scripture", and spelled out in one of my favorite poems, and one of the greatest of all time,  "Invictus" (hope I spelled at least that right).  

The scripture states in part that we (Latter-day Saints) "...are free to act, rather than to be acted upon...", there is also an Old Testament scripture that states (in part) "...no longer will the children's teeth be set on edge, for the sour grapes their parents have eaten". But lately many threads have been suggesting that "Calvinism" is the reality, that we are all swept along by forces we cannot control. Which doctrine teaches that "man is totally depraved", and cannot even choose God, or to accept God, on his or her own. 

Other Christian doctrines do teach that "man is only partially depraved" and that all can choose to accept God, but this still suggest there is little choice. 

So to the question at hand. Have we as Latter-day Saints, lost (in a pluralistic society) some, or much of what defines us in the idea that, "we are free to choose", that were are free to act, rather than be acted upon", that "we are not bound nor punished for the actions of our parents" and that finally (as spelled out in "Invictus") "...the captain of our souls", (to paraphrase)? 

Also, there are indeed many things that make us Mormon or LDS, but (and I worry), if we lose the idea that we or any other do not have the ability to, "act, rather than be acted upon"...Have we lost what it means to be LDS? 

I have used other belief systems to try and make my point, but if we can, can we limit the discussion as much as possible to the final question, of "acting for ourselves, rather than be acted upon", as it relates to any behavior and no other doctrine? 

Thanks; thoughts? 

[The Nehor]

If someone tells me I must act and not be acted upon I guess I will.

[JAHS]

1 hour ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

"we are not bound nor punished for the actions of our parents"

We should not be bound nor punished by the actions of our parents, but we sometimes suffer some of the consequences of those actions. Hopefully though we can rise above what ever side effects are forced upon us by their actions and still be able to be our own person that we want to be.  The Lord said He is a “jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children” (Deuteronomy 5:9), insofar as the children learn and do the sinful things the parents do. But it does not follow that we can blame our own sins upon our ancestors. We won't be punished for their sins; only for our own sins if we don't turn away from what they taught us.  We can have control over our own lives and rise above those sins and become children of God if we are given the chance to do so.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, JAHS said:

We should not be bound nor punished by the actions of our parents, but we sometimes suffer some of the consequences of those actions. Hopefully though we can rise above what ever side effects are forced upon us by their actions and still be able to be our own person that we want to be.  The Lord said He is a “jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children” (Deuteronomy 5:9), insofar as the children learn and do the sinful things the parents do. But it does not follow that we can blame our own sins upon our ancestors. We won't be punished for their sins; only for our own sins if we don't turn away from what they taught us.  We can have control over our own lives and rise above those sins and become children of God if we are given the chance to do so.

Oddly enough, the sins or bad examples of our parents can also be positive teaching lessons. God is able to make all things happen for our good. My bio-father turned out to be a serial adulter and bigamist, as a result his three children with my mother (who was his first wife, and di not know what was going on) all have stable marriages, and faithful marriages...adding up to 138 years of marriage so far. 

[cinepro]

2 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

So to the question at hand. Have we as Latter-day Saints, lost (in a pluralistic society) some, or much of what defines us in the idea that, "we are free to choose", that were are free to act, rather than be acted upon", that "we are not bound nor punished for the actions of our parents" and that finally (as spelled out in "Invictus") "...the captain of our souls", (to paraphrase)? 

Maybe part of the problem is that we are "free to choose" and "free to act" only so far as the Church gives us permission to.  The emphasis is on obedience and homogeneous culture. 

So while we believe in all those things in principle, in practice no so much.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, cinepro said:

Maybe part of the problem is that we are "free to choose" and "free to act" only so far as the Church gives us permission to.  The emphasis is on obedience and homogeneous culture. 

So while we believe in all those things in principle, in practice no so much.

For me the Church is where I look for doctrine and instruction. I do not need their leave to do what is right, or for that matter choose another path. Yes is some cases I need their permission to act in the office of the Priesthood, but not compelled to do what I do not want to do. As far as "culture", this is not a bad thing, unless it compels us to do the wrong thing. So, I still and will act, and not be acted upon. 

[waveslider]

I think the fact that we have a will to act or be acted upon is part of our mortal life testing. We are here to see if we will give over our free will to act for ourselves, to God's plan and allow us to be acted upon by Him, in order to help bring about His purposes. Essentially giving up our free will, willingly, because acting for any other reason is going against God's plan.