Mercy and Justice ?

[Duncan]

We talked about Alma 42 today and things generally went smoothly. However it was brought up that regardless of when we learned the gospel we'll still be judged by our actions/thoughts/attitudes here even if we didn't have the gospel. The response to that was that isn't fair. If you didn't know you were going to be judged and then die and all of sudden you're told you're going to be judged by what you did in this life is that fair? especially in light of people die with addictions and had negative attitudes. They can repent but what about our life here before we knew we'd be judged? Thoughts?

[Stargazer]

Who came up with that conclusion?  Missing some important concepts. 

Well, yes, even children below the age of accountability and those who did not know the law will be held responsible for their transgressions.  Or would, if it weren't for the blood of Christ.  Little children who transgress are forgiven through Christ's atonement, because they cannot repent, being non-accountable.  And those who did not know the law who transgressed will likewise be responsible for those ignorant transgressions (because ignorance of the law is no excuse) -- unless they accept Christ, repent, and are baptized by water and the spirit.  As for those who did know the law and transgressed anyway, they too must be responsible for the transgressions.  Fair doesn't enter into it.  And this is because the punishment is a consequence, not a caprice.  It isn't that God WANTS to punish those who transgress (whether in ignorance or not), but is that they must be punished.

If you fall off a 100 foot cliff, does the consequence vary according to whether or not you knew the cliff was there?  No, it doesn't.  That is what is going on, not some willful insistence of God that those people offended Him and out of pique He will thrash them whether they knew they were doing wrong or not.  

In Alma 42 it is very clear: "25 What, do ye suppose that mercy can rob justice? I say unto you, Nay; not one whit. If so, God would cease to be God."

God can't say, "Well, doggone it, you weren't aware there was a law against that, so I'm just going to let you off."  That would be Mercy.  And even the Almighty God cannot use it to rob justice.  The only way out is being able to apply the blood of Christ.  Because Christ had no sin, His taking upon himself the punishment for sin gives Him the authority to forgive.  And His stated conditions for forgiveness is Faith, Repentance, and Baptism by water and by spirit.  Those who reject Christ must necessarily suffer for their own sins, even if they didn't know they were sins at the time they committed them.

It should be said, however, that whether you have one sin or a thousand, the punishment is the same.  People lose sight of the fact that there is only one sin: disobedience.  And only one punishment: 

DC 19:15-17 - 

Quote

 

15 Therefore I command you to repent—repent, lest I smite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your sufferings be sore—how sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know not.

 16 For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;

 17 But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;

 

If you do not repent of your sins and accept Christ, you will be punished for your sins even as Christ was punished, though he had no sin.

People like to think that if you commit 100 sins your punishment will be hard, but if you commit 200 it will be twice as hard.  Not so.  There is only one punishment, and all unrepentant souls must suffer it.

Edited August 7, 2016 by Stargazer

[sheilauk]

Many laws exist in the UK where you can be punished even if you didn't know you were breaking the law. Justice means you  are convicted,  the court might accept your ignorance of the law or transgression and exercise mercy by restricting/limiting the punishment.  Whether it is fair or not is irrelevant.   Judgement isn't about fairness, it is about justice and mercy.  Whose fairness would it be?   How do you judge if something is fair? What is fair to me may not be to you.  The question is did you transgress or not?  Do you repent or not? Has the price been paid?Then you can receive mercy.  Also, everyone will have the opportunity to learn the gospel and repent,  that's why there is missionary work in the spirit world. 

[waveslider]

3 hours ago, Duncan said:

The response to that was that isn't fair.

I'm glad it isn't fair, or else no one would be able to come back to God. It wasn't fair for Christ to suffer in order to bring about a way back for us, but he did it anyway, in the ultimate act of mercy.

 

3 hours ago, Duncan said:

If you didn't know you were going to be judged and then die and all of sudden you're told you're going to be judged by what you did in this life is that fair?

We are all born with the Light Of Christ/conscience. Those who weren't aware of the laws of God, still did works according to their conscience, or against it. So in essence there is no such thing as complete ignorance of right and wrong. Besides the person doing the judging is He who suffered to allow mercy to work in the first place: "For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:"
John 5:22

[CV75]

4 hours ago, Duncan said:

We talked about Alma 42 today and things generally went smoothly. However it was brought up that regardless of when we learned the gospel we'll still be judged by our actions/thoughts/attitudes here even if we didn't have the gospel. The response to that was that isn't fair. If you didn't know you were going to be judged and then die and all of sudden you're told you're going to be judged by what you did in this life is that fair? especially in light of people die with addictions and had negative attitudes. They can repent but what about our life here before we knew we'd be judged? Thoughts?

We are judged by what we do, but also by the light we have with which to do the things we choose to do. That is one aspect of grace. Another aspect is that we are given more light in the next life, and given opportunity to accept or reject and act accordingly. A third aspect of grace is that we aren't judged until the "last day" possible!