bcuzbcuz Posted April 27, 2016 Posted April 27, 2016 1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said: If you're just going to toss off "I was also here for the Norrland rebellion" in this context, you need to make it clear that it took place about 50 years ago and that it involved American missionaries reacting to a heavy-handed mission president, not Swedish Church members apostatizing over what they had read on the (then non-existent) Internet. That'a all true, Scott. At my age past events and present often meld into a oneness. They make sense to me, not necessarily to anyone else. As I've said elsewhere, I wasn't involved in the Norrland rebellion either, but sympathised to their complaints. And the only common factor between these two events, as you point out was location (somewhat).
rongo Posted April 27, 2016 Posted April 27, 2016 1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said: I've never meant to imply with anything I've said that it didn't matter. I'm only saying that I suspect the impression that some have gained of the scope of the event is exaggerated beyond reality. It reminds me of the flooding and mudslides that occurred in Salt Lake City and other parts of northern Utah in the late 1980s. They were severe enough to garner national media attention, and justifiably so. But the impression that some of our friends and relatives in other parts of the country were getting was that the entire state was under water, when, in fact, the vast majority of us, even living in the areas where the flooding was occurring, were dry and safe. Or, how many European tourists think that we dodge gunfire on a regular basis over here (because of media hype of shootings). Or how many Americans think that Germany is a hotbed of right-wing violence, skinheads, etc. (because of media hype about right-wing extremism). 1
cinepro Posted April 27, 2016 Posted April 27, 2016 18 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: Contrary to the apparent impressions of some, the Church in Sweden is not collapsing, any more than is the Church in Utah. Swedish population - 9.859 million. LDS Population - 9.541thousand Just to be clear for someone who isn't in Utah, you guys are doing okay, right? 1
Scott Lloyd Posted April 27, 2016 Author Posted April 27, 2016 (edited) 42 minutes ago, cinepro said: Swedish population - 9.859 million. LDS Population - 9.541thousand Just to be clear for someone who isn't in Utah, you guys are doing okay, right? Yes. The Church here is not collapsing. Neither is the Church in Sweden. In fact, it has grown by 30 or 40 percent since I was there in the '70s. Edited April 27, 2016 by Scott Lloyd
bcuzbcuz Posted April 27, 2016 Posted April 27, 2016 2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: I'm not altogether certain any of them were sent home. That was just part of the rumors still circulating when I came along in the mid 1970s. becuzbcuz is actually the first individual I have encountered who claims to have been there at the time, and he has confirmed the stuff about the books being sent to the missionaries with the expectation that the missionaries pay for them and recoup the cost from sales. I was in Sweden from December 1964 to June 1967, 2 ½ years. The rebellion, if my memory serves me, was in the beginning of 1965, although the anger was fuming long before that. I never heard about any missionaries being sent home for their disobedience due to the Norrland rebellion but again, my conatcts through the grapevine were not well established at that point
Jeanne Posted April 27, 2016 Posted April 27, 2016 3 hours ago, bcuzbcuz said: I was not impressed with their responses. I live here in Sweden but didn't attend the meeting (wasn't invited nor notified) but heard about it from one who did. I was also here for the Norrland rebellion. In my opinion the church needs to do thorough research about all the issues and prepare well thought through responses. Winging it (thinking that the spirit will provide the appropriate responses) is not enough. On a side note, it is interesting to me that you live in Sweden. The bulk of my ancestors came from there. I may PM you to see if my maiden name rings a bell. Thank you. What and/or why do you think that Sweden had had a more difficult time in bigger numbers than other places?
Duncan Posted April 27, 2016 Posted April 27, 2016 When I was in the mission field we tracted into these members who I didn't know who they were or what but she told me a story I have never forgotten. She had a brother on a mission in Sweden, this was in the 1960's and they had very few baptisms. Anyways she had a friend who took the discussions in the US and for whatever reason he went to Sweden and found the Mission Office and just walked in and requested baptism. So every zone conference after that the MP was like, "You can't tell me you can't find anyone to teach and baptize, why we have people walking off the street wanting to join the Church!!!!" 1
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