Mass Apostasy Under Way? Lawyer Claims to Have Processed 6,500 Resignations

[JulieM]

7 minutes ago, CountryBoy said:

Then they still believe the Church had control over them.  And as an attorney, I actually CAN speak about legal clients........

Yup, you can speak for YOUR clients if you are helping them resign.  But you can't speak for members who are resigning on their own or using an attorney other than you.

That's obvious and I'm not sure why you felt that was pertinent here (?)

Edited February 28, 2016 by JulieM

[UtahTexan]

3 minutes ago, JulieM said:

Yup, you can speak for YOUR clients if you are helping them resign.  But you can't speak for members who are resigning on their own or using an attorney other than you.

That's obvious and I'm not sure why you felt that was pertinent here (?)

Nope.  As an attorney of 26 years, having dealt with all kinds of clients, I can certainly give opinions on other attorneys AND clients.  We do it all the time.  We form opinions about the kind of clients we will not represent, etc.  

 

And I felt it pertinent because others were also giving their opinions on the OP.  As someone with more legal experience than most on this board, I offered mine.  It is done for publicity.  These folks need to grow a backbone.

[JulieM]

14 minutes ago, CountryBoy said:

 Getting an attorney for something like this is just publicity.

How does a member who uses this attorney get any publicity?

 

 

[JulieM]

7 minutes ago, CountryBoy said:

Nope.  As an attorney of 26 years, having dealt with all kinds of clients, I can certainly give opinions on other attorneys AND clients.  We do it all the time.  We form opinions about the kind of clients we will not represent, etc.  

 

And I felt it pertinent because others were also giving their opinions on the OP.  As someone with more legal experience than most on this board, I offered mine.  It is done for publicity.  These folks need to grow a backbone.

Well, of course you can give your opinion! This is a discussion board.  

But you can't speak for members who are resigning as to what their reasons are for choosing to resign or to use an attorney for the process.  You certainly don't know they are doing this for publicity!

You can only speak with authority as to why you wanted to resign and why you were fine that your leaders excommunicated you.

Edited February 28, 2016 by JulieM

[UtahTexan]

3 minutes ago, JulieM said:

How does a member who uses this attorney get any publicity?

 

 

The attorney gets publicity by making his claims.  The members can use it to their heart's content.  It does not take a genius to see that.  The fact it has been done the way it has been done speaks volumes. 

[JulieM]

4 minutes ago, CountryBoy said:

The attorney gets publicity by making his claims.

Sure.  But, you can't KNOW that publicity is what motivated him to offer this service.

That's your opinion, but that carries as much weight as pretty much anyone's opinion on here.  You simply don't know.

Edited February 28, 2016 by JulieM

[UtahTexan]

Just now, JulieM said:

You can't KNOW that publicity is what motivated him to offer this service.

That's your opinion, but that carries as much weight as pretty much anyone's opinion on here.  You simply don't know.

I get your opinion.  But, since I have resigned from the Church...and I am an attorney, I have been on both sides of this issue and have a unique insight.  Second, since there is very little money and chance of litigation coming from this.....there is no real reason for an attorney to get involved.  Third, since one can leave the church without an attorney, there is no real need get one.  Now, I get that you do not understand this.  Maybe you are not an attorney.  Maybe you have not had 26 years of clients and dealing with clients as an attorney.  Maybe you have not seen the seedy side of law as an attorney.  Maybe you have never left the Church....maybe you do not have BOTH sides from which to form an opinion like I am offering.  But thanks for sharing your opinion.

[JulieM]

1 minute ago, CountryBoy said:

Third, since one can leave the church without an attorney, there is no real need get one.  Now, I get that you do not understand this.  Maybe you are not an attorney.

I don't need to be an attorney to know why some members may want to use an attorney for their resignation.  Several have explained the benefits and reasons on this thread and even some have posted who used this attorney.   

Your opinion is just an opinion.  And you are definitely entitled to feel as you do about this attorney.

[UtahTexan]

3 minutes ago, JulieM said:

I don't need to be an attorney to know why some members may want to use an attorney for their resignation.  Several have explained the benefits and reasons on this thread and even some have posted who used this attorney.   

Your opinion is just an opinion.  And you are definitely entitled to feel as you do about this attorney.

U huh.  Actually, my comments have been facts   You would know that if you were were an attorney.

Now, maybe you need the last word to have the publicity to say you got the last word from an attorney.....:)  but I am headed to bed....

[ALarson]

On 2/27/2016 at 4:27 PM, CountryBoy said:

Really?  All I did was ask my name to be removed from Church records>  It did not take an attorney.  It did not take a fight.  It did not need publicity.  

From you're posts here, this wasn't "all" that occurred for you.  Yes, you sent in a letter asking to resign, but the leaders did not honor this request and you've stated that instead, your local leaders held a disciplinary court and excommunicated you.  Why would they do that when you were resigning?

I've heard of others being treated this way too and that is one of the reasons a member would want to use an attorney for the process.

And, you are an attorney so of course you did not contact one (or probably even think of doing that).  You also chose not to fight how you were treated and then excommunicated.

I highly doubt that the members who have used this attorney "need publicity" (or want that) and publicity is not why they're using this attorney.  I also doubt this attorney is getting much publicity either (outside the relatively small group of people who have read about or used the free service he's offering.)

.

Edited February 28, 2016 by ALarson

[ALarson]

9 hours ago, CountryBoy said:

I get your opinion.  But, since I have resigned from the Church...

But, you did not "resign" from the church, correct?

[UtahTexan]

22 minutes ago, ALarson said:

From you're posts here, this wasn't "all" that occurred for you.  Yes, you sent in a letter asking to resign, but the leaders did not honor this request and you've stated that instead, your local leaders held a disciplinary court and excommunicated you.  Why would they do that when you were resigning?

Don't know...did not care.  I had already resigned.  What they did after that did not bother me.  See, once I left, I did not consider they had any control over me.  I simply did not care.  It is called being an adult.

I've heard of others being treated this way too and that is one of the reasons a member would want to use an attorney for the process.

lol...what can an attorney send a letter?  I did that.  Beat his chest?  I did not need that.  Make threats?  I would not do that.  Charge money?  I have too much ethics for that.

And, you are an attorney so of course you did not contact one (or probably even think of doing that).  You also chose not to fight how you were treated and then excommunicated.

Wrong.  When I sent in m letter of resignation, I was NOT an attorney.  I have already stated that.

 

22 minutes ago, ALarson said:

I highly doubt that the members who have used this attorney "need publicity" (or want that) and publicity is not why they're using this attorney.  I also doubt this attorney is getting much publicity either (outside the relatively small group of people who have read about or used the free service he's offering.)

Then why is an attorney making the claims in the OP?

.

 

[UtahTexan]

14 minutes ago, ALarson said:

But, you did not "resign" from the church, correct?

No...not correct.  I resigned.  I sent in a letter and was done.  I only know what happened later because I got a letter.  I threw the letter away.  Do you know why?  I had resigned...I did not care.

Edited February 28, 2016 by CountryBoy

[ALarson]

3 minutes ago, CountryBoy said:

Yep.  I sent in a letter and was done.  I only know what happened later because I got a letter.  I threw the letter away.  Do you know why?  I had resigned...I did not care.

You have stated that after you turned in your letter of resignation (to your Bishop or you mailed it to SLC?), your local leaders then held a disciplinary court for you and excommunicated you.  They couldn't have excommunicated you if you were no longer a member and had actually resigned.  

Edited February 28, 2016 by ALarson

[UtahTexan]

7 minutes ago, ALarson said:

You have stated that after you turned in your letter of resignation (to your Bishop or you mailed it to SLC?), your local leaders then held a disciplinary court for you and excommunicated you.  They couldn't have excommunicated you if you were no longer a member and had actually resigned.  

You miss the point.  I am not sure why. If I tell a store I am leaving, and walk out....I do not care if, after the fact, they have a meeting and tell people I was kicked out.  I simply do not care.  I had resigned.  I left.  I never went back.  I was gone.  I was Hasta La Vista.  I was Casper.  Me....gone.  I was out.  It over, done, fini, kaput.

What they did after that did not affect me.  I did not care.  I had quit.  If I no longer believe, and am no longer, in my mind, under their authority, why would I care even a little what they did to me AFTER I LEFT?  

Edited February 28, 2016 by CountryBoy

[ALarson]

Countryboy,

They couldn't have excommunicated you if you were no longer a member and had actually resigned.  So, it isn't correct for you to continue stating that you resigned from the church.

Bottom line here is that you can only speak with authority regarding your OWN excommunication.  You can certainly continue to speculate as to why others are resigning or using this attorney to resign (and can also continue to speculate as to why this attorney is offering the service), but those aren't the facts.   We'd need to hear from them to know the facts in their cases.   

(my quoting function is really being weird today, by the way...this was supposed to be a part of my last post (?) 

.

Edited February 28, 2016 by ALarson

[UtahTexan]

10 minutes ago, ALarson said:

Countryboy, you have stated that after you turned in your letter of resignation (to your Bishop or you mailed it to SLC?), your local leaders then held a disciplinary court for you and excommunicated you.  

They couldn't have excommunicated you if you were no longer a member and had actually resigned and were no longer a member of the church.  So, it isn't correct for you to continue stating that you resigned from the church.

Bottom line here is that you can only speak with authority regarding your OWN excommunication.  You can certainly continue to speculate as to why others are resigning or using this attorney to resign (and can also continue to speculate as to why this attorney is offering the service), but those aren't the facts.   We'd need to hear from them to know the facts in their cases.    

I truly do not understand your insistence that I was still a member.  Are you saying that the church was holding me against me my will?  They had me locked up and I could not just leave?  That they somehow controlled my very world?  lol.  This is the mentality that I guess pervades.  No one controls me.  If I want to quit, I quit.  What they do after that is up to them...but just because my name is on a record in a church I no longer attend means nothing to an adult.  Again, maybe we Texans are more independent. Maybe here, when someone quits, they need help.  Maybe here, when someone quits and someone else says , "no you didn't", y'all say, "geez...you are right....and I really wanted to quit!  Someone PLEASE help me quit!!!!"  

 

Edited February 28, 2016 by CountryBoy

[Analytics]

CountryBoy,

As a parallel example, say that somebody gets a totally fraudulent collections notice in the mail.  The agency that sends the letter has an inconsistent reputation--depending upon the individual collector, the process of cleaning this up can go reasonably smooth or not.  Before they quit hassling you and get their records corrected, you aren't sure of how many guys you will have to argue with on the phone, how many times you'll then argue with their supervisors, how much time you'll spend on hold, how many empty threats you'll get thrown at you, and how many letters you have to write.

Imagine the victim who got this letter wanted the mess cleaned up as easily and smoothly as possible.  If an attorney was available that could clean this up for him easily and effectively, would you belittle him and his clients, saying they should be a man and deal with the collection agency and credit bureaus directly?

Edited February 28, 2016 by Analytics

[ALarson]

6 minutes ago, CountryBoy said:

I truly do not understand your insistence that I was still a member. 

How could your leaders have held a court for you and excommunicated you if you were no longer a member?  What is so difficult to understand about that?  Your leaders cannot excommunicate someone who is not a member of the church.

Again, this is why some members may choose to use an attorney.  Many (most) do not want to be treated as you were (a court held and an excommunication when they only want to quietly resign as efficiently as possible with little or no contact from their local leaders).

I'm not going to continue a back and forth with you on this.  If you truly do not understand, that's fine.

.

Edited February 28, 2016 by ALarson

[UtahTexan]

1 minute ago, Analytics said:

CountryBoy,

As a parallel example, say that somebody gets a totally fraudulent collections notice in the mail.  The agency that sends the letter has an inconsistent reputation--depending upon the individual collector, the process of cleaning this up can go reasonably smooth or not.  Before they quit hassling you and get their records corrected, you aren't sure of how many guys you will have to argue with on the phone, how many times you'll then argue with their supervisors, how much time you'll spend on hold, how many empty threats you'll get thrown at you, and how many letters you have to write.

That is nothing like this.  In your example, the company saying you owe money can hurt your credit.  Quitting a church is not like fraudulent collections.  Not even close.

1 minute ago, Analytics said:

Imagine the person who got this letter wanted the mess cleaned up as easily and smoothly as possible.  If an attorney was available that could clean this up for you easily and effectively, would you belittle him and say they should be a man and deal with the collection agency and credit bureaus directly?

Again.....fraudulent collections is nothing like quitting a church.

[UtahTexan]

3 minutes ago, ALarson said:

How could your leaders have held a court for you and excommunicated you if you were no longer a member?  What is so difficult to understand about that?  Your leaders cannot excommunicate someone who is not a member of the church.

Again, this is why some members may choose to use an attorney.  Many (most) do not want to be treated as you were (a court held and an excommunication when the only want to quietly resign).

I'm not going to continue a back and forth with you on this.  If you truly do not understand, that's fine.

I truly do not understand your insistence that I was still a member.  Are you saying that the church was holding me against me my will?  They had me locked up and I could not just leave?  That they somehow controlled my very world?  lol.  This is the mentality that I guess pervades.  No one controls me.  If I want to quit, I quit.  What they do after that is up to them...but just because my name is on a record in a church I no longer attend means nothing to an adult.  Again, maybe we Texans are more independent. Maybe here, when someone quits, they need help.  Maybe here, when someone quits and someone else says , "no you didn't", y'all say, "geez...you are right....and I really wanted to quit!  Someone PLEASE help me quit!!!!"  

 

and I do understand.  People here cannot quit on their own.  It is a cultural difference.  Like I said...Texans are just more independent. 

Edited February 28, 2016 by CountryBoy

[JulieM]

4 minutes ago, ALarson said:

How could your leaders have held a court for you and excommunicated you if you were no longer a member?  What is so difficult to understand about that?  

I'm not going to continue a back and forth with you on this.  If you truly do not understand, that's fine.

.

Ha!  I gave up too.  He really can't understand  (about this and other points he's attempting to make.)

I'm sure countryboy will continue to claim that he resigned rather than the truth (that he was excommunicated).  Maybe he feels that he resigned even though officially or technically he was ex'd.  

[Thinking]

6 minutes ago, CountryBoy said:

I truly do not understand your insistence that I was still a member.  Are you saying that the church was holding me against me my will?  They had me locked up and I could not just leave?  That they somehow controlled my very world?  lol.  This is the mentality that I guess pervades.  No one controls me.  If I want to quit, I quit.  What they do after that is up to them...but just because my name is on a record in a church I no longer attend means nothing to an adult.  Again, maybe we Texans are more independent. Maybe here, when someone quits, they need help.  Maybe here, when someone quits and someone else says , "no you didn't", y'all say, "geez...you are right....and I really wanted to quit!  Someone PLEASE help me quit!!!!"  

 

and I do understand.  People here cannot quit on their own.  It is a cultural difference.  Like I said...Texans are just more independent. 

These are two of the reasons that those who have quit in their hearts want to quit officially.

• Until they quit officially, the Church will continue to send home teachers and/or visiting teachers.
• They don't want to be part of the "X million" that the Church regularly proclaims as its own.

[UtahTexan]

2 minutes ago, JulieM said:

Ha!  I gave up too.  He really can't understand  (about this and other points he's attempting to make.)

I'm sure countryboy will continue to claim that he resigned rather than the truth (that he was excommunicated).  Maybe he feels that he resigned even though officially or technically he was ex'd.  

I never said I was not ex'd.  I resigned on November 12, 1989.  I received the letter I was ex'd in March 1990.  In those months, I never attended, did not tithe, and was attending a different Church.  I clearly had left.  I understand y'all need help deciding when you have quit something.  I understand that you feel controlled even after you have quit.  It is simply odd to be to be so dependent.  It is odd that you have so little control over your feelings and lives.

[UtahTexan]

And like I said....When I returned to the LDS Church last year.....I quit the Catholic Church.  My Priest is very aware of it.  However, I am clearly still on their records....I get offering envelopes, I get correspondence...I get bulletins, I get calendars of events.

Whatever should I do?  Gasp!  They still control me!  I need help!  I cannot quit on my own.  They still...horror of all horrors...send me MAIL!!!!!!  OH NO!!!!!!

Am I still a member because THEY say so?  Or am I not because I say so?  Is my baptism back into the LDS invalid because Catholics still send me mail?

Edited February 28, 2016 by CountryBoy