Jeanne Posted January 19, 2016 Posted January 19, 2016 30 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said: PerhapI think you may be dealing with something here that is culturally specific and then only applicable to a certain segment of that culture. Most little girls where I live don't dream about any such thing. Perhaps it is cultural. This was just my experience. Growing up..and playing with my girlfriends, we always planned out "pretend weddings"... I am sorry,..I am have forgotten, but where are from?
Scott Lloyd Posted January 19, 2016 Posted January 19, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jeanne said: Well..to me it was very special. Perhaps not for everyone. If a daughter has always dreamed about that..(and most little girls do)..yeah..they are missing out IMO. Whether or not they dream of it depends almost entirely on whether they have been conditioned to expect it, I would say. I'm confident my little girl doesn't, because none of us have ever mentioned such a thing to her. I know I won't, believing as I do that it's a vacuous tradition stemming from notions that are no longer widely accepted about a young woman being personal property and what not. In fact, the very idea of my daughter becoming someone's chattel is highly offensive to me. Knowing her as I do, I'm certain it would be to her as well. Edited January 19, 2016 by Scott Lloyd 1
smac97 Posted January 19, 2016 Posted January 19, 2016 I have generally thought that the father giving away the bride is a quaint and pretty much harmless relic of the long distant past. Just as I do not take exception to some of of the elements pertaining to the origins of Christmas and Easter, I don't think giving away the bride is a bad thing. That said, I also do not think it has much of a place in the consciousness of LDS girls, who have, as others have pointed out, no expectation of such a thing. Rather, there dream, as it were, is often to get married in the temple. I have two daughters, both of whom taking it as a given that they will be married in the temple. The particular of the process are not as important of being sealed in the temple.
salgare Posted January 19, 2016 Posted January 19, 2016 3 hours ago, Calm said: Smac Thank you for your time in explaining your situation. Sorry you get attacked all the time, that would be hard. It's also too bad that you, along with most consider any criticism against the Church to be a personal insult. I hope you had today off and that you had a pleasant day. God bless
Calm Posted January 19, 2016 Posted January 19, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said: I think you may be dealing with something here that is culturally specific and then only applicable to a certain segment of that culture. Most little girls where I live don't dream about any such thing. None of my girlfriends (nonLDS) ever mentioned that even when they were talking about what dresses they wanted or colours for their wedding (which is in my memory the most common wedding desire that they brought up). Edited January 19, 2016 by Calm
Russell C McGregor Posted January 19, 2016 Posted January 19, 2016 6 hours ago, salgare said: I'm a father and a grandfather. I've been married one time, been 35 years now. I'm not a perfect father like my Father in Heaven, and yet I know of my love for my wife and posterity. You can give me slightly altered Pascal's wagers all day long and it does not change the fact that it would be impossible for a loving Father to ever put his children in such a situation. This is your fear, this is your indoctrination. I've generally been of the view that anyone who is making a good faith effort to discuss another person's belief allows that other person to state what he or she believes; and does not arrogantly presume to tell the other person what they believe. But maybe that's just me. 1
Yirgacheffe Posted January 19, 2016 Posted January 19, 2016 (edited) 6 hours ago, Calm said: 5 hours ago, Jeanne said: 5 hours ago, Jeanne said: 5 hours ago, Jeanne said: 6 hours ago, salgare said: I have no idea what I did here. Edited January 19, 2016 by Yirgacheffe confusion 3
Yirgacheffe Posted January 19, 2016 Posted January 19, 2016 5 hours ago, Jeanne said: That's true too,,Cal Father is just a tradition. I would like to see both parents walk their child down the aisle..and even perhaps their son before he stands up there. But..I guess I am being kind of glad I did it this way. Both parents..(Dad and stepmother) have cancer now..and I am just glad that for all the highs and lows in our relationship, that I have a wonderful memory. That being said..I wish Mom had took my other arm.. Both parents is what I'm seeing these days, both in my family and among friends and co-workers. I've also seen the grooms parents walking their son to the front of church. 1
Yirgacheffe Posted January 19, 2016 Posted January 19, 2016 4 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: Whether or not they dream of it depends almost entirely on whether they have been conditioned to expect it, I would say. I'm confident my little girl doesn't, because none of us have ever mentioned such a thing to her. I know I won't, believing as I do that it's a vacuous tradition stemming from notions that are no longer widely accepted about a young woman being personal property and what not. In fact, the very idea of my daughter becoming someone's chattel is highly offensive to me. Knowing her as I do, I'm certain it would be to her as well. These discussions always come down to LDS trashing non-members traditions.
Teancum Posted January 19, 2016 Posted January 19, 2016 9 hours ago, Gillebre said: I'm so grateful that the Church has taken steps to really remind us about the importance of loyalty to God and His teachings. I'm sad to see people can't recognize such loyalty when they see it. I'm starting to believe that happiness and hatred cannot coexist (like light and darkness) in the same space, or person, at the same time. How sad that people seem so full of hate and bile that there is no room for true happiness. Truly they are choosing to be unhappy, and in the end that will be the greatest tragedy of all, that they would rather feel the righteous indignation of having been hurt and victimized than truly happy and at peace. No one can hate and be at peace. My faithful Presbyterian mother in law thought it hateful of the LDS church to bar her from her daughter's and grandchildrens weddings. She figures Mormons think they are simply better than anyone else. Tough thing to explain the concept of temple covenants and worthiness to her.
VideoGameJunkie Posted January 19, 2016 Author Posted January 19, 2016 It's also tough to explain to non endowed members who can't go to the temple what goes on in temples without revealing temple content. I always say it's sacred and I swore not to talk about it outside the temple, and I usually get bad reactions when I say that.
Teancum Posted January 19, 2016 Posted January 19, 2016 2 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said: It's also tough to explain to non endowed members who can't go to the temple what goes on in temples without revealing temple content. I always say it's sacred and I swore not to talk about it outside the temple, and I usually get bad reactions when I say that. That's why I never tried to explain it to my non LDS in laws. I just said I was sorry. I married their oldest daughter. Because she had not been a member a year we were able to have our bishop marry us and her family and all her non LDS friends could come. Three months later we went to the temple with some very close LDS friends and were sealed. It was as special to us as if we had been married there to begin with. I was so ever thankful that we had the opportunity to do our marriage this way. This was not the case for my children and because of the church policy my in laws were excluded. The suggestion I posted earlier is a simple solution.
VideoGameJunkie Posted January 19, 2016 Author Posted January 19, 2016 I guess non members being excluded from the temple weddings is symbolic of them being excluded from the Celestial Kingdom if they don't accept the gospel one day.
Calm Posted January 19, 2016 Posted January 19, 2016 1 hour ago, Yirgacheffe said: Both parents is what I'm seeing these days, both in my family and among friends and co-workers. I've also seen the grooms parents walking their son to the front of church. Not a bad idea if you are going to do it that way.
thesometimesaint Posted January 19, 2016 Posted January 19, 2016 Over the years I've been to church weddings of other denominations, our own non Temple weddings, and Temple Weddings. Temple weddings are the most simple, arguably shortest of the bunch, almost perfunctory by comparison.
busybee Posted January 19, 2016 Posted January 19, 2016 12 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: Whether or not they dream of it depends almost entirely on whether they have been conditioned to expect it, I would say. I'm confident my little girl doesn't, because none of us have ever mentioned such a thing to her. I know I won't, believing as I do that it's a vacuous tradition stemming from notions that are no longer widely accepted about a young woman being personal property and what not. In fact, the very idea of my daughter becoming someone's chattel is highly offensive to me. Knowing her as I do, I'm certain it would be to her as well. Strangely enough those kind of thoughts weren't even on the radar for me when my Dad walked me down the aisle. To my it was a symbol of the man who had been the most important man in my life, up until that point, passing my care over to the man who would now be the most important man in my life. I didn't feel like anyone's chattel. I felt cherished by two amazing men.
busybee Posted January 19, 2016 Posted January 19, 2016 (edited) 8 hours ago, Yirgacheffe said: These discussions always come down to LDS trashing non-members traditions. Ahem I'm LDS and had a traditional civil ceremony. This is very much a cultural thing, It has nothing to to with LDS trashing 'non-members traditions' You do know that there are more countries that DO NOT accept temple marriages than those that do, and so LDS living in such areas follow the cultural traditions of those countries. Who knows what all those different wedding cultures are?Some would probably find the idea of a cultural western wedding ceremony quite bizarre. That doesn't equate to them trashing those cultures. Edited January 19, 2016 by busybee 1
busybee Posted January 19, 2016 Posted January 19, 2016 7 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said: It's also tough to explain to non endowed members who can't go to the temple what goes on in temples without revealing temple content. I always say it's sacred and I swore not to talk about it outside the temple, and I usually get bad reactions when I say that. What is difficult about explaining that we go to the temple to make covenants, receive blessings and receive instruction? That is exactly what we do in the Temple. And we make those same covenants and blessings available to our ancestors who may desire them in the next life. See simples!! 2
Yirgacheffe Posted January 19, 2016 Posted January 19, 2016 16 minutes ago, busybee said: Ahem I'm LDS and had a traditional civil ceremony. This is very much a cultural thing, It has nothing to to with LDS trashing 'non-members traditions' You do know that there are more countries that DO NOT accept temple marriages than those that do, and so LDS living in such areas follow the cultural traditions of those countries. Who knows what all those different wedding cultures are?Some would probably find the idea of a cultural western wedding ceremony quite bizarre. That doesn't equate to them trashing those cultures. "it's a vacuous tradition" is disrespectful and contemptuous IOW trashing.
busybee Posted January 19, 2016 Posted January 19, 2016 50 minutes ago, Yirgacheffe said: "it's a vacuous tradition" is disrespectful and contemptuous IOW trashing. It may be so. But it has nothing to do with being LDS or not. 1
Gray Posted January 19, 2016 Posted January 19, 2016 On 1/16/2016 at 1:00 PM, thesometimesaint said: That is his decision then isn't it? If you don't want the costs of an activity, why should you expect to reap the benefits? Say I want to play the piano in Carnegie Hall, but I don't want all that practice. Do you think I'll make it there? To your example, that would be like expecting people to get an MFA in music theory before they're allowed to watch a concert in Carnegie Hall.
thesometimesaint Posted January 19, 2016 Posted January 19, 2016 6 minutes ago, Gray said: To your example, that would be like expecting people to get an MFA in music theory before they're allowed to watch a concert in Carnegie Hall. No; More like paying the price of admission to play at Carnegie Hall. A lot of practice. 1
Yirgacheffe Posted January 19, 2016 Posted January 19, 2016 54 minutes ago, busybee said: It may be so. But it has nothing to do with being LDS or not. Every discussion I've seen on the subject starts out, LDS are mean for doing this, and winds up with LDS members speaking contemptuously of non-LDS wedding traditions.
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