Stargazer Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 None of that matters in the least to me though. I like Fantasy, I don't like Sci-fi. I don't care what a space shuttle was named after. Well I didn't expect you to change your mind on what you liked, bluebell -- but at least you can recognize the contribution that SF has had to your daily life. In contrast to the Cthulhu Mythos.
bluebell Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 I don't know about that being an age thing. I went to see Alfred Hitchcock's The Birds when it was first in the theaters, and I had to leave the showing around the middle of it because I was scared spitless and my guts hurt. I was about 12. Since then I have never had any interest in horror flicks. I wonder if it's a difference of culture. We watched The Birds in school when i was 12 for a 6th grade English class. I liked the show, though most of the kids thought it was funny. Because of it's rating the teacher didn't even need to get parental permission. I think every generation is more jaded than the last.
bluebell Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 Well I didn't expect you to change your mind on what you liked, bluebell -- but at least you can recognize the contribution that SF has had to your daily life. In contrast to the Cthulhu Mythos. I think it's kind of sad that you can't see how fantasy can contribute to people's lives.
Calm Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) There is tons of art and literature inspired by fantasy. Much beauty and interest has been added to our lives because of it.Shakespeare wrote a lot of fantasy. Heros even in fantasy can inspire people to live better lives, make sacrifices for others. Edited October 14, 2015 by Calm
Stargazer Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 I think it's kind of sad that you can't see how fantasy can contribute to people's lives. You wound me with your misunderstanding! I don't believe I said fantasy doesn't contribute, I thought I said that it doesn't contribute materially. It is fine entertainment, but results in few, if any, material improvements in our lives. There are exceptions, I suppose, but I can't think of any. Perhaps you can.
Stargazer Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) There is tons of art and literature inspired by fantasy. Much beauty and interest has been added to our lives because of it.Shakespeare wrote a lot of fantasy.Heros even in fantasy can inspire people to live better lives, make sacrifices for others. Darnit, don't everyone pile on to me about my lack of respect for fantasy! As I said to bluebell, it's great entertainment, but doesn't generally result in any advancement to technology or culture. Unlike science fiction, which has done so demonstrably. You say that heroes in fantasy can inspire people, and I suppose that's possible, but can you provide any examples? Fantasy negative example: Game of Thrones. What is that particular show going to inspire? Nothing? I rest my case. Edited October 14, 2015 by Stargazer
bluebell Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 Darnit, don't everyone pile on to me about my lack of respect for fantasy! As I said to bluebell, it's great entertainment, but doesn't generally result in any advancement to technology or culture. Unlike science fiction, which has done so demonstrably. You say that heroes in fantasy can inspire people, and I suppose that's possible, but can you provide any examples? Fantasy negative example: Game of Thrones. What is that particular show going to inspire? Nothing? I rest my case. Ah, come on. Not every Sci-fi show or book inspires something either.
bluebell Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 There is tons of art and literature inspired by fantasy. Much beauty and interest has been added to our lives because of it.Shakespeare wrote a lot of fantasy.Heros even in fantasy can inspire people to live better lives, make sacrifices for others. Fantasy shapes our culture in a lot of ways.
Stargazer Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 Ah, come on. Not every Sci-fi show or book inspires something either. Thank heavens, no. Some things in science fiction I definitely don't want to see in real life. But enough things do, and that's my point.
bluebell Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 You wound me with your misunderstanding! I don't believe I said fantasy doesn't contribute, I thought I said that it doesn't contribute materially. It is fine entertainment, but results in few, if any, material improvements in our lives. There are exceptions, I suppose, but I can't think of any. Perhaps you can. I think it contributes materially the same way that music and art do. It doesn't matter what arguments you employ, you will never convince someone who loves music or art that it's not just as important as mathematics to our culture and development. Fantasy, like music and art, goes deep, to the marrow, and for many people it's what makes life worth living. Some people don't have that reaction to it. Which is fine. Someone has to like math. 1
bluebell Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 But enough things do, and that's my point. I get it. I just disagree that the same can't be said for Fantasy. Many of the greatest themes of the greatest fantasy books ever written exist and play out in real life every day. I know people for whom certain fantasy books were life changing.
Stargazer Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) Fantasy shapes our culture in a lot of ways. Well, yes, but is it significant? That's my question. I love this ring: But how else does The Lord of the Rings and other works of fantasy shape our culture, other than making us want to have jewelry that reminds us of it? I wish that it would inspire us to great deeds of achievement and glory, but I don't think this has happened. ETA: I meant to say that this is a CTR ring with Choose the Right inscribed in Elvish. I am going to get one, I think. Edited October 14, 2015 by Stargazer
Stargazer Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 I get it. I just disagree that the same can't be said for Fantasy. Many of the greatest themes of the greatest fantasy books ever written exist and play out in real life every day. I know people for whom certain fantasy books were life changing. I would love for this to be true, bluebell, and I would love to hear you give an example of how some work of fantasy might have changed someone's life (other than the author's). And if you don't right this minute tell me the story how a particular person (anonymous of course) had their life change as a result of reading a work of fantasy, then consider this a CFR. A friendly CFR, because I truly want to know (for I enjoy certain forms of fantasy, too). But it seems to me that works of fantasy do not exert anywhere near as much force upon our culture as works of science fiction do.
Calm Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) Social Hall...are CFRs even allowed?How about the whole industry surrounding comic books, fantasy and scifi with not only the literature but the conventions.Over in Asia, there are people who live the fantasy/anime life as much as possible. It has altered significant parts of their culture from what I can tell of reports by those who live there. I would say here as well. People trying to live the fantasy side of both fantasy and scifi have dominated certain socialaspects of the internet and as a result are altering culture.I don't see Bluebell claiming fantasy has had the same amount of effect on society as scifi. She just questioned the idea that fantasy has not shaped our culture, our lives at all. Edited October 14, 2015 by Calm
bluebell Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 I would love for this to be true, bluebell, and I would love to hear you give an example of how some work of fantasy might have changed someone's life (other than the author's). And if you don't right this minute tell me the story how a particular person (anonymous of course) had their life change as a result of reading a work of fantasy, then consider this a CFR. A friendly CFR, because I truly want to know (for I enjoy certain forms of fantasy, too).But it seems to me that works of fantasy do not exert anywhere near as much force upon our culture as works of science fiction do.After this post I'm done with the conversation. To answer the CFR, I have a friend who decided to become a literature professor after reading lord of the rings. It altered the course of her life.
Calm Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) I don't know if I would have married my husband if he hadn't been a Lord of the Rings fan. That certainly changed my life. Several fantasy books, especially by Lewis and Tolkien, have changed how I look at the world, even the Gospel. For example, the last book of the Narnia series The Last Battle has some interesting ideas about heaven (whether one sees it as a metaphor or a description) that have helped inform how I perceive how the kingdoms of glory operate and how the Atonement can work in a person's life. Edited October 14, 2015 by Calm 1
Calm Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 http://www.leaderu.com/humanities/tolkiensimpact.html
Calm Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 Even better since the previous could be claimed to be a very limited view, though personally I would disagree:http://io9.com/5966492/10-most-unlikely-things-that-were-shaped-by-jrr-tolkien
Stargazer Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) After this post I'm done with the conversation.To answer the CFR, I have a friend who decided to become a literature professor after reading lord of the rings. It altered the course of her life. I detect that you feel I'm badgering you. That isn't what I was trying to do. The CFR is more along the lines of "Please tell me!" I too love certain lines of fantasy, such as LoTR. If you could describe how fantasy has affected the general run of humanity in a way similar to how science fiction has, I would be very pleased to see it! My asking for an example is not a challenge, it is a plea. I see how your friend's life was changed by LoTR, and I rejoice at it. I knew a CES instructor whose MA was a dissertation on the languages of LoTR -- he was a wonderful instructor, too, and perhaps his love of LoTR contributed to his worth as an instructor, but I'm not certain of that. Please don't be upset with me -- I didn't intend to come off as any kind of hostile. Edited October 14, 2015 by Stargazer
Stargazer Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 I don't know if I would have married my husband if he hadn't been a Lord of the Rings fan. That certainly changed my life. Several fantasy books, especially by Lewis and Tolkien, have changed how I look at the world, even the Gospel. For example, the last book of the Narnia series The Last Battle has some interesting ideas about heaven (whether one sees it as a metaphor or a description) that have helped inform how I perceive how the kingdoms of glory operate and how the Atonement can work in a person's life. I do see how fantasy has affected your life positively. It has done so with my life as well. My wife couldn't bear fantasy (OR science fiction), she was too much of a realist and too grounded in the present to delve in fiction. Unfortunate, but there it was. I wish there were some way to tell whether fantasy in general, or certain lines of fantasy (like LoTR or Narnia) have materially affected our culture beyond the obvious entertainment value. CS Lewis has done wonders for popularizing Christianity via his Narnia books, I'm sure, but has it done anything for us materially, or actually changed the culture for the better. I don't see that it is so, alas.
bluebell Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 Please don't be upset with me -- I didn't intend to come off as any kind of hostile.We're good. I want to stay that way which is why going to be quiet now.
Stargazer Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 We're good. I want to stay that way which is why going to be quiet now. Yeah, and I was dragging the discussion off-topic for all I was worth, anyway, so I shall now go back to waiting for someone else to post about their books. And try to avoid hijacking threads in the future.
ERayR Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 None of that matters in the least to me though. I like Fantasy, I don't like Sci-fi. I don't care what a space shuttle was named after. Have you read any Anne McCaffrey.
Stargazer Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 Have you read any Anne McCaffrey. Wow, Anne McCaffrey is the bee's knees! Her novels are a nice compromise between fantasy and science fiction -- dragons, yes, but dragons that are hard-science believable. bluebell, you would like Anne McCaffrey, I think.
bluebell Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 Wow, Anne McCaffrey is the bee's knees! Her novels are a nice compromise between fantasy and science fiction -- dragons, yes, but dragons that are hard-science believable. bluebell, you would like Anne McCaffrey, I think.I'll check her out. The only book I've ever read with a dragon is LOTR.
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