KevinG Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 Right. Or "Gay Marriage." Just sayin'! You have advanced Pharisee training don't you?
Daniel2 Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 Right. Or "Gay Marriage." Just sayin'! There are numerous recognized civil rights that aren't mentioned in the constitution, including the right of civil marriage recognition for straight couples. But rights that aren't mentioned in the constition appropriately become recognized civil rights through the judicial processes of our government. The right for same-sex couples to marry (equal with the previously recognized right of straight couples to civilly marry) is one such right. I am unaware of any legally, soically, or religiously binding government recognition that has occured which specifies that the United States is "Judeo-Christian" in any legally meaningful way. If you know of any, can you please share them?
sheilauk Posted July 23, 2015 Posted July 23, 2015 Muslim cemetery threatened.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11750259/Texans-threaten-to-cover-land-with-pigs-blood-to-block-Muslim-cemetery.html PS: http://www.rawstory.com/2015/07/michigan-town-blocks-muslim-mans-secular-scout-camp-over-fears-its-a-secret-isis-training-ground/Not good. Fear through ignorance on display. Though I presume that the michigan man does not have a civil right to open a scout camp, though he must have a reasonable expectation that council decisions will be made on rational grounds not spurious fears? I think that would be the position in the UK.
tagriffy Posted July 24, 2015 Posted July 24, 2015 Anyone can read what you posted - and how you're trying to defend those posts in exactly the manner Russell described. If you say so. I know what I said and I know what I meant. If there is question about what I said or what I meant, one need only ask instead of projecting.
TheSkepticChristian Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 "Lawmakers in the socially conservative state responded with threats to seek the impeachment of the court's justices and pledged to push for changes to the constitution"http://news.yahoo.com/satanic-temple-holds-public-sculpture-unveiling-detroit-173259288.html 1
thesometimesaint Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 "Lawmakers in the socially conservative state responded with threats to seek the impeachment of the court's justices and pledged to push for changes to the constitution"http://news.yahoo.com/satanic-temple-holds-public-sculpture-unveiling-detroit-173259288.html That pesky Freedom of Religion has those so called Christians in a tizzy. 2
Zakuska Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) What's interesting about those facts is that the Bible was being used in ceremonial contexts. Another intresting fact is all the Roman God & Godess symbols (statues etc) we have in our culture and not a peep from the Liberals. Only when the Christian God is mentioned does it become an issue. Perhaps these should be removed from all the court houses... instead of the 10 commandments? Edited July 27, 2015 by Zakuska
provoman Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 Federal Judge, regarding a 2013 lawsuit filed against the the usage of the motto "In God We Trust": "The Supreme Court has repeatedly assumed the motto's secular purpose and effect, and all circuit courts that have considered this issue-namely the Ninth, Fifth, Tenth, and D.C. Circuit- have found no constitutional violation in the motto's inclusion on currency," wrote Baer. "Each circuit court that has considered the issue found ... the motto's placement on currency, finding ceremonial or secular purposes and no religious effect or endorsement." There is no "religious effect or endorsement" by the Government with the motto "In God We Trust", same would be said of Lady Justice. 1
Zakuska Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) Federal Judge, regarding a 2013 lawsuit filed against the the usage of the motto "In God We Trust": "The Supreme Court has repeatedly assumed the motto's secular purpose and effect, and all circuit courts that have considered this issue-namely the Ninth, Fifth, Tenth, and D.C. Circuit- have found no constitutional violation in the motto's inclusion on currency," wrote Baer. "Each circuit court that has considered the issue found ... the motto's placement on currency, finding ceremonial or secular purposes and no religious effect or endorsement." There is no "religious effect or endorsement" by the Government with the motto "In God We Trust", same would be said of Lady Justice. And I agree completely. However, we have seen SCOTUS' evolution on things such as SSM. I wouldn't put it past them to change their assumptions. Edited July 27, 2015 by Zakuska
provoman Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 But Daniel; you always had that right. There was never a "sexual orientation" test for marriage. Any man and woman could marry, providing they were legally free to do so, and on the same terms as everyone else. The recent absurd decision changed the terms from what they had always been. You know that, don't you? How much do you know about the history of various marriage formulations in the United States? I believe it was Hawaii that was considering to permit same gender marriages in the 1990s. In response and due to concerns about Full Faith and Credit clause, Congress reacted with the Defense of Marriage Act - which expressly prohibited recognition of same gender marriages and permitted individual States to not recognize same gender marriages from other States. All 50 States, until the 2000s resctricted marriage to opposite sex partners.
jkwilliams Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." -- Amendment IX
TheSkepticChristian Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) Another intresting fact is all the Roman God & Godess symbols (statues etc) we have in our culture and not a peep from the Liberals. Only when the Christian God is mentioned does it become an issue. Perhaps these should be removed from all the court houses... I am not a Democrat, I simply don't want my gov to promote just one religion. Either promote them all (including Atheism) or none. "Roman God & Godess symbols (statues etc) we have in our culture"However, the ancient Roman religions are death, today people do not use ancient Roman books as an inspiration for creating laws. and where are the Roman statues anyway? in private property? Why do you think so many people do not want gay marriage to be legal? Why do you think so many people don't want to allow gays to adopt children? How would you feel if our government only promoted the Virgin of Guadalupe? OR Edited July 27, 2015 by TheSkepticChristian
Zakuska Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) "Roman God & Godess symbols (statues etc) we have in our culture"However, the ancient Roman religions are death, and people do not use ancient Roman books as an inspiration for creating laws. and where are the Roman statues anyway? in private property? Have you ever wondered why the US Supreme court looks like the Parthenon? Because our entire western Law is based on Greco/Roman Law and learning. (ie Ancient Roman Books and Philosophers ) The Statue of Liberty is a Roman Godess. Prety much every court house has a depiction of Lady Justice, another Roman Godess. Much of our coinage have depictions of Roman Gods and Godesses. Why aren't you up in arms about that? Edited July 27, 2015 by Zakuska
TheSkepticChristian Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) Have you ever wondered why the US Supreme court looks like the Parthenon? Because our entire western Law is based on Greco/Roman Law and learning. (ie Ancient Roman Books and Philosophers ) and why did you ignore my points? Do you want our government to only promote Catholicism or atheism? Yes or No? LOL name one USA law that is based on Roman religious morality? We can borrow secular philosophy from ancient Rome, but not the religious morality. If the government borrows Roman religious morality, I will not like that, and neither will you. Today, many Christians do not want to allow gays to adopt children because of the Bible, not because of secular reasons. They do look for secular reasons, but they can't find any. PS ancient Roman religions are death Edited July 27, 2015 by TheSkepticChristian
Zakuska Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) and why did you ignore my points? Do you want our government to only promote Catholicism or atheism? Yes or No? LOL name one USA law that is based on Roman religious morality? We can borrow secular philosophy from ancient Rome, but not the religious morality. If the government borrows Roman religious morality, I will not like that, and neither will you. Today, many Christians do not want to allow gays to adopt children because of the Bible, not because of secular reasons. They do look for secular reasons, but they can't find any good ones. PS ancient Roman religions are death To answer your question. No. Catholicism (A Roman Religion) is alive and well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_law American common law were influenced also by Roman law, notably in their Latinate legal glossary (for example, stare decisis, culpa in contrahendo, pacta sunt servanda).[1] Eastern Europe was also influenced by the jurisprudence of the Corpus Juris Civilis, especially in countries such as medieval Romania (Wallachia, Moldova, and some other medieval provinces/historical regions) which created a new system, a mixture of Roman and local law. Also, Eastern European law was influenced by the "Farmer's Law" of the medieval Byzantine legal system. Edited July 27, 2015 by Zakuska
TheSkepticChristian Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) Catholicism (A Roman Religion) is alive and well. Give me a break, we don't want our government to promote only Catholicism. You seem to be getting desperate. Either promote them all or none. American common law were influenced also by Roman law, notably in their Latinate legal glossary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_law and how is that religious morality? LOL I am still waiting for you to name one US law based on Roman religious morality. Our funding fathers didn't believe in Roman religions, they simply borrowed the philosophy, they had secular reasons to do it, not a religious bias. Edited July 27, 2015 by TheSkepticChristian
Zakuska Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) Give me a break, we don't want our government to promote only Catholicism. You seem to be getting desperate. Either promote them all or none. >>> To which I agreed. and how is that religious morality? LOL I am still waiting for you to name one US law based on Roman religious morality. Our funding fathers didn't believe in Roman religions, they simply borrowed the philosophy, they had secular reasons to do it, not a religious bias. What do you think "Philo-Sophy" even means.... Hint: it derives from greek & roman Gods. Philo explained that ideal Greek forms for reason and wisdom illustrated the deep, mystical truth of God and Judaism. Philo and the Logoshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philo%27s_view_of_God Sophiahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophia_(wisdom) So you proved my point... the "funding" fathers borrowed philosophy (which is Roman Religion). Thank you. Edited July 27, 2015 by Zakuska
TheSkepticChristian Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) What do you think "Philo-Sophy" even means.... Those are Two names of Romans Gods. LOL and they are death. Do US law makers believe in Roman religions? Bytheway, even if a USA law is based on Roman religious morality, if everybody in the country likes it, it is okay. Our country is for everybody, not just for Christians, not just for Hindus, not just for Atheists. Edited July 27, 2015 by TheSkepticChristian
Zakuska Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) LOL and they are death. Do US law makers believe in Roman religions? Bytheway, even if a USA law is based on Roman religious morality, if everybody in the country likes it, it is okay. Our country is for everybody, not just for Christians, not just for Hindus, not just for Atheists. It must not be okay. The Majority in the country likes one man and one woman marriage. Your position is inconsistent. You say its okay for Roman religion to be promoted by our Government over others. Just because everbody likes it. If Roman Godesses can stand at Capitol grounds then so can the 10 commandments. If Roman symbols can be on our money then so can "In God We Trust". If The US flag can fly then so can the Confederate. Edited July 27, 2015 by Zakuska
provoman Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 Have you ever wondered why the US Supreme court looks like the Parthenon? Because our entire western Law is based on Greco/Roman Law and learning. (ie Ancient Roman Books and Philosophers ) The Statue of Liberty is a Roman Godess. Prety much every court house has a depiction of Lady Justice, another Roman Godess. Much of our coinage have depictions of Roman Gods and Godesses. Why aren't you up in arms about that? Nothing you mentioned is promoting religion. Why get up in arms about when nothing is happening? What we need to be up in arms about is when Government promotes or supresses religious practices.
TheSkepticChristian Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) It must not be okay. The Majority in the country likes one man and one woman marriage. I said "all" not "most" 60 years ago most Americans wanted racist segregation. Most Americans do want to allow SSM anyways http://www.gallup.com/poll/183272/record-high-americans-support-sex-marriage.aspx Your position is inconsistent. You say its okay for Roman religion to be promoted by our Government over others. Just because everbody likes it. If Roman Godesses can stand at Capitol grounds then so can the 10 commandments. and the Satan Statue? and the Virgin Marry? and the "there is No God" sign? LOL I don't want the government to promote the ten commandments because not everybody agrees with the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 10th commandments, and there are no good secular arguments for them. Edited July 27, 2015 by TheSkepticChristian
Zakuska Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) Lets look at some other religious symbolism our Government promotes. https://www.google.com/search?q=roman+symbols+on+us+money&espv=2&biw=1457&bih=848&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CCcQsARqFQoTCKirt8uH_MYCFZYakgodtycNjQ#imgrc=N42iaBBiYvrmfM%3A "All seeing eye" 9 tail feathers = Cloud 9 (2 passed seventh heaven) "Pheonix" rising from the Ashes (another Greek religious reference) Edited July 27, 2015 by Zakuska
Zakuska Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 and the Satan Statue? and the Virgin Marry? and the "there is No God" sign? LOL Why not....? If theres a group that wants to raise the money to put it there. 1
thesometimesaint Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 You'd think that other people don't get to vote to take away your rights. SEE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIGhSo7zMVg&feature=player_embedded
TheSkepticChristian Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) Why not....? If theres a group that wants to raise the money to put it there. Okay, I can't argue against that. Our government should promote all religions (including atheism) or none. Our country is for everybody, not just for a specific group of people. So do you want the pledge of alliance to change every year? "One Nation under Brahma"? "One nation under No God"? "One nation under Satan"? Edited July 27, 2015 by TheSkepticChristian
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