Article About Kate Kelly

[Storm Rider]

I'd be tempted to fall for the "any inequality on earth is okay because it will all be made right in the end" argument, if (1) it couldn't be used to justify every injustice ever committed; and (2) women received equality in our version of the CK.

Let's be clear. HM is not equal to HF in Mormonism. No earthly woman would stand for never being mentioned, acknowledged or thanked for her contributions. Nor would she allow herself to be part of a harem.

As far as gender equality goes, it only gets worse in the eternities.

 

Who says our Father and our Mother are not equal?  Please explain, O Great One, how you came to this conclusion?  

 

It certainly is not my view of our theology.  It would seem impossible for any simple minded individual that has ever attended the temple and listened to the blessings defined there to conclude such.  You have spouted pure poppycock.  You are not promoting or demanding equality; you want the type of equality that everyone must fit a single mold and one that has more to do with personal power than equality. Just dismal, shallow, logic. 

Edited June 25, 2015 by Storm Rider

[stemelbow]

Those who desired a change back then were wise and humble enough to recognize it was God Who was calling the shots and were patient enough to wait until He decreed it. Moreover, they fully expected it would happen, because it had been promised.

Those are crucial differences between those who desired change back then and the shrill and strident voices of today.

It is possible that there were members back then who opposed the priesthood ban who would have taken the same course as Kelly if he/she felt he/she could have. Let's say there was a member in, oh let's try 1947, who lived in, oh we'll just say, Minnesota, who disagreed with the priesthood ban. How would that member know if others felt the same as he, particularly if none in his local area had the same ideas? How would he create a community of supporters, like OW, of members and non-members in order to demonstrate their hope for change?

it's not the same world, Scott. It seems to me, Lowry Nelson, for one, stuck to his guns, as it were, when it came to opposing the racist teachings of his Church. Most likely he felt completely alone.

Either way, I suppose it doesn't matter. I just find you overstating things in an effort to express more dislike for Kate Kelly and co. I think such talk is overwrought. They are still going and have support. I welcome their peaceful opposition, see it as a good thing, and would not think it helpful at all to try and silence them, effectively among members or otherwise.

[HappyJackWagon]

Sure and I have no problem with women who desire the priesthood.  My problem with OW is not their objective but the means to obtain that objective.  They have decided that women need to be ordained.  They want president Monson to pray about and and get the revelation they desire to make what they want official.  That is like me deciding that there is something we need to do in our ward and asking my bishop to pray about it so he would get the revelation that I am right and it needs to be done.  Honest, sincere prayer begins with the individual who then asks God on the subject.  If what I am asking is right, my bishop will pray about the issue himself without direction from me to do so.  If President Monson feels inspired to pray to God about the issue, he will and God will inspire him to do it.  OW are asking Monson to ask an insincere prayer not on his behalf but on behalf of OW to get an answer that complies with the desires of OW. 

You must remember that to some degree we are all products of our time and culture. It's inevitable and there's nothing wrong with that...unless we think that our time and culture perfectly represents the will of God.

 

Look at what you wrote. They want Monson to pray and seek revelation. How is that a bad thing? As a product of his time and culture isn't it possible that on occassion he may need a nudge, just like the rest of us, to put off that culture and seek again the will of God independent of his natural bias and experience? This doesn't seem unreasonable to me in the slightest.

 

And you example about asking the bishop to seek revelation for the ward on a topic...that's exactly what we should do if there's a need or a concern. I don't share your concern about this being inappropriate. In both examples people are going to their priesthood leader (who is a servant to the Lord by serving those in his stewardship) and asking them to seek guidance for their stewardship. This seems like the exact process that should be followed.

[HappyJackWagon]

Who says our Father and our Mother are not equal?  Please explain, O Great One, how you came to this conclusion?  It certainly is not my view of our theology nor any simple minded individual that has every attended the temple and listened to the blessings defined there.  You have spouted pure poppycock.  You don't want equality; you want "I have to be seen as powerful; not have power, but viewed by others to have power" to be equal.  Just dismal, shallow, logic. 

Come on, Storm Rider. How often in church do we hear HM talked about verses the number of times we hear about HF? How many times do we pray to her? How many times do we hear her name? How many times do we learn about her role and participation with the human family?

 

Regarding equality between HF & HM in the temple and eternity, it is not poppycock when we recognize the difference in the covenants. Men covenant to follow God and women covenant to follow their husband as he follows God. That places the man ahead of the woman by setting the man up as the authority to whom she covenants to follow. That's a pretty significant difference.

[Gray]

While I support the cause of women's ordination, I am often turned off by Kate Kelly's tone. 

[The Nehor]

I think the whole progressive label was invented to make liberals feel like their views are ones of progress.

Pretty much. In the same way conservatives call themselves conservative to convince themselves that their ideals were common in the past in a non-mythical sense.