First Elder Perry, Now Elder Scott

[CCRW]

I like the last supper thought.

 

You have to realize, at the time we had dates for the End of the World, I was a major dooms day'er (hey any REAL believer could be identified this way).  I had a good friend that bought stock in the Dream (Relief) Mine.  I was supper bummed out at the time I did not have the money for it.

 

[Calm]

You have to realize, at the time we had dates for the End of the World, I was a major dooms day'er (hey any REAL believer could be identified this way).  I had a good friend that bought stock in the Dream (Relief) Mine.  I was supper bummed out at the time I did not have the money for it.

 

My husband is from Utah Valley.  My mother's side of the family has several here, my dad's most are in the SL Valley.  I visited my extended family a lot as a kid, so did my husband.  I've got to know his family quite well...most stayed in Utah.

 

None of them that I know of (and there are lots) had the same sort of attitude you did...felt they knew the dates for the End of the World, bought into the various doomsday preppers schemes of the day, etc.  Instead they kept what they felt was a wise amount when they could afford it and invested in the usual bank account savings, retirement plans, stocks, etc.  I am not saying that your atitude was obviously wrong or that you were clueless about what was going on around you; I am just saying that you make it sound like all the local Mormon Corridor members felt the way you did back in the day but I just don't see much evidence of it being much different than it is today, a wide variety of positions.  We have followers of Pontius/Spencer/Rowe in our ward along with followers of Dehlin, most of us I would describe as moderates in regards to church teachings (somethings they accept as literal, others they do not but whatever their personal beliefs it is the most kind, generous, caring ward I've ever been a part of, in or out of Utah).  Growing up and all my years till now I knew familes that had rooms full of canned foods, bedding and a crank flour mill, canned all their own food and grew massive gardens, and others that just rolled their eyes at any suggestion the world was getting in a worse state.  My uncle went off and started his own Dehlin like group....though it was mainly women, he was very good looking; he tried to get a restaurant/cafe going in SLC where people could come and talk about anything they wanted to in regards to religion, though he certainly liked being the center of any group discussion and attempted to guide it the way he wanted and quickly lost interest if he couldn't.  He gave me his gorgeous copper pots after I cleaned out his mom's basement a number of times, passed them on to my son, who thinks they are worth the polishing.  

 

Every family I've met and had any extended conversations with had their set of beliefs they matched with almost every one around them along with a few beliefs/practices that were pretty unusual.  And I've never met a family of over two people that didn't have variation of interpretations among its members either...at least once the kids hit teen years.

 

And it must be a royal pain for leadership to try and give them all the attention they deserve and leaders want to with such a variety.

Edited April 26, 2015 by calmoriah

[CCRW]

And it must be a royal pain for leadership to try and give them all the attention they deserve and leaders want to with such a variety.

Indeed!

It's the variety of extended and ward family that excites me to get back to, only enjoy this time around.

 

I'm sorry to have implied all along the Wasatch Front were this way at the time, as that was not the case at all.  It was me an one other family in our ward for example, maybe 4 people at work in a large company.

 

We were part of the problem not the solution for sure.

 

Thanks Cal ... thanks all.

Edited April 26, 2015 by CCRW

[Robert F. Smith]

.................................................................

.................................  From what I heard here and there over the years, many governments in such areas are relatively comfortable with dealing with LDS leaders because they know there will be strong ties to a strong, financially stable, central organization.

Foreign governments also appreciate the fact that Mormons are not troublemakers.

 

Membership does tend to contribute to upward mobility in a society, but that is a long term change, not quickly enough to support immediate building growth.

This is where the Perpetual Education Fund is especially important, so that loans are made available to those who need it now, but only as a revolving investment.

 

Investments will be able to maintain steady and gradually increasing income in order to support the needed building of chapels and temples outside Europe, the States, Canada and other more highly developed areas.

To what extent is that true now, and to what extent in the future?

[Robert F. Smith]

I like the last supper thought.

 

You have to realize, at the time we had dates for the End of the World, I was a major dooms day'er (hey any REAL believer could be identified this way).  I had a good friend that bought stock in the Dream (Relief) Mine.  I was supper bummed out at the time I did not have the money for it.

 

...................................................................

You got to be kidding, CCRW.  And the Nephite Dream Mine too?

[CCRW]

I went with my friend a couple times out to the mine

[Robert F. Smith]

maybe I have false impressions of a financial kingdom (malls, condo's, land, businesses), separate from a church resources kingdom (churches, temples), separate from humanitarian aid which don't mix/overlap.

It is true that the LDS Church is a huge landowner in certain areas, some of which I mentioned in my coverage of their welfare programs.  In other cases, they seem to be purchasing land for investment and future use based on certain religious notions (Missouri seems to fit in here).  The huge mall they financed in downtown SLC is as much for beautification of the world Church Headquarters area as for investment -- it does both quite nicely.

 

Robert's information shows this pretty clearly I believe.  If I was seeing rib-eye steaks being handed out to the homeless on SLC Streets, or even hamburger from those ranches from Bishops Storehouses, maybe I'd have a softer view of this.

The Mormon Church has some of the largest cattle ranches in the world, constantly feeding into their meat processing plants.  I just assume that you have occasionally volunteered at LDS meat packing plants over the years so that you know that steaks and ground beef are regularly packaged and shipped to every Bishop's Storehouse for free distribution.  Here in Utah Valley, I have worked at one several times (extremely hard work for us old guys).  Professional, paid butchers received live cattle on the killing floor, and begin the process which leads to the various back rooms where the rest of us work.

 

As for handing out ribeye to the homeless downtown in SLC, two things:  (1) Many Mormons (including me) donate to non-Mormon missions in places like L.A., and SLC.  I can remember the time long ago (1959) when I spent the night at the Union Rescue Mission on Skidrow in L.A.  A nice shower, clean sheets, and a light breakfast in the morning as we listened to the pastor preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ.  I was deeply touched, and I made it a policy to contribute to the mission whenever I got the chance. (2) As I tell any homeless or needy person I meet in Provo these days, the city is divided up into geographical wards, with a bishop in each responsible for the welfare of everyone within his jurisdiction -- not just members of the Church.  I advise them to go the bishop in their area and ask for help.  The bishop will act based on inspiration of the Holy Spirit.  I have seen bishops give the very shirt off their backs to the needy.  Brings me to tears even now to think of the tender mercies of the Lord . . .

[Robert F. Smith]

some do have transparency, showing their cost of operations verses what is given to humanity.  I assume many need only stay afloat verses building empires

As noted in my cited piece, 100% of LDS humanitarian aid contribution is used for humanitarian purposes only.  The Brethren can use tithing for any humanitarian aid they see fit, and I would like to see open books on everything.

 

As to the comparative levels of giving within and outside the Church, IRS levels (based on tax returns) show that Mormons just give more overall -- which includes tithing.  I would also like to see the breakdown.

[Robert F. Smith]

.....................................................

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. It's certainly one way for HF to call His anointed. It's just not the way he called Moses, David, Daniel, etc. But on the other hand, it's not dissimilar to His calling of, say, Nehemiah or even Joseph (men who had shown some secular success).

Some were highborn and important:  Moses was a prince of Egypt, raised in the house of Pharaoh; Isaiah was a high official in the royal court of Judah (no richer vocabulary in the Bible); Jeremiah was a Cohen, a direct descendant of Aaron, and his two scribes were fellow priests.

 

Others were nobodies, called from farm or sheepfold.  God can use whomever he will.

[JLHPROF]

Interesting new article addressing the age of the GA's and their health and a new statement from the Church on the subject.

 

 

http://www.sltrib.com/lifestyle/faith/2465653-155/at-87-mormon-leader-thomas-s

 

"President Monson is 87. It's natural that he and others in church leadership are feeling the effects of advancing age," the statement said. "However, he spoke publicly at General Conference [last] month and attended all the meetings. He comes to the office every day, attends all First Presidency and committee meetings, leads the discussion and makes decisions."

 

"Emeritus status is not a consideration for the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve," the LDS Church said in its Friday statement. "Apostles serve for life."

Edited May 3, 2015 by JLHPROF

[Thinking]

My Dad's cousin was a cousin to Thomas S. Monson. He came to her funeral a few years ago and participated in the family prayer. He also said a few words during the service. Does that give me enough royal blood to anticipate a call?

[JLHPROF]

Update from today on KSL:

 

The LDS Church today issued an update on the health of Elder Richard G. Scott and Elder L. Tom Perry:

 

Elder Scott "is resting at home recovering from his recent hospitalization for internal bleeding" from an ulcer. He "has experienced a fading memory incident to age, and is not fully able to participate in meetings of the Quorum of the Twelve at this time."

 

Elder Perry "attended both scheduled meetings of the Quorum of the Twelve" this week. "He remains under medical care for thyroid cancer."

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Though I am not specifically LDS, I do carry a soft spot towards Elder Scott. You can just tell that he is a good, caring man.