DragonLancer Posted March 18, 2015 Posted March 18, 2015 Matter is not eternal. Though it is very longed lived. This universe is some 14 billion years old. Before then it was just an infinitely small and infinitely hot dot of energy. Some 100,000 Trillion, Trillion, Trillion, Trillion, Trillion years from now entropy will have won and this universe will dissolve to uniformly diffuse enegy. Well, not really because of conservation of energy, Matter and energy, being interchangeable, is eternal, even if it is diffused. The amount of "stuff" in the system remains constant. Theologically, my faith in the atonement is that the Atonement is a force by way of the power of God that makes certain things eternal in spite of entropy. Resurrection, eternal marriage, forgiveness, and so forth and so on, are made possible by the atonement and these effects are eternal. Even while if left on its own, the Universe could devolve into that state. But with God's intervention, we will have either colonized another Universe when this one is no longer a fit home for us, or God will keep entropy from destroying that which is eternal in this Universe in some way.
ERayR Posted March 18, 2015 Posted March 18, 2015 Matter is not eternal. Though it is very longed lived.This universe is some 14 billion years old. Before then it was just an infinitely small and infinitely hot dot of energy. Some 100,000 Trillion, Trillion, Trillion, Trillion, Trillion years from now entropy will have won and this universe will dissolve to uniformly diffuse enegy. Imagination has great influence on data interpretation doesn't it? Wouldn't it be more honest to say, we think This universe is some 14 billion years old. Before then it was just an infinitely small and infinitely hot dot of energy. Some 100,000 Trillion, Trillion, Trillion, Trillion, Trillion years from now entropy will have won and this universe will dissolve to uniformly diffuse energy.
thesometimesaint Posted March 18, 2015 Posted March 18, 2015 I guess from the first moment long ago that a man looked up in the night sky, and said to himself "I wonder what those bright shiny things are" we have used our imaginations to make sense of it.
thesometimesaint Posted March 18, 2015 Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) Well, not really because of conservation of energy, Matter and energy, being interchangeable, is eternal, even if it is diffused. The amount of "stuff" in the system remains constant. Theologically, my faith in the atonement is that the Atonement is a force by way of the power of God that makes certain things eternal in spite of entropy. Resurrection, eternal marriage, forgiveness, and so forth and so on, are made possible by the atonement and these effects are eternal. Even while if left on its own, the Universe could devolve into that state. But with God's intervention, we will have either colonized another Universe when this one is no longer a fit home for us, or God will keep entropy from destroying that which is eternal in this Universe in some way. Depends of how far you want to to take that. They are interchangeable because of E=MC (Squared) but in order for matter to exist energy must cool down(diffuse), The total amount of stuff doesn't change, what does change is it concentrations. IE; In Nuclear decay the total amount of energy and matter stays the same. However its concentrations do change. God can do whatever he wants. Science doesn't have much to say about what happens to us after we die, other than our physical bodies rot away to dust. In about another 5 billion years our sun will have used up all of its hydrogen. It will expand consuming all the planets out to ours. If God knows of a way to add more hydrogen to our sun he sure hasn't told us. Edited March 18, 2015 by thesometimesaint
ERayR Posted March 18, 2015 Posted March 18, 2015 I guess from the first moment long ago that a man looked up in the night sky, and said to himself "I wonder what those bright shiny things are" we have used our imaginations to make sense of it. And that is good. Just don't try to pretend it describes what happened millions of years in the past or what will happen trillions of years in the future.
thesometimesaint Posted March 18, 2015 Posted March 18, 2015 Without the ability to make accurate logical predictions about what has happened and will happen. We are better off hiding in caves being afraid of things that go bump in the night. You might want to live like that but I doubt the vast majority of the world does.
DragonLancer Posted March 18, 2015 Posted March 18, 2015 Depends of how far you want to to take that. They are interchangeable because of E=MC (Squared) but in order for matter to exist energy must cool down(diffuse), The total amount of stuff doesn't change, what does change is it concentrations. IE; In Nuclear decay the total amount of energy and matter stays the same. However its concentrations do change. God can do whatever he wants. Science doesn't have much to say about what happens to us after we die, other than our physical bodies rot away to dust. In about another 5 billion years our sun will have used up all of its hydrogen. It will expand consuming all the planets out to ours. If God knows of a way to add more hydrogen to our sun he sure hasn't told us. All true, but again, this is really about God making some things eternal. Our concern isn't so much the ultimate state of the stuff that is not.
Rob Osborn Posted March 18, 2015 Posted March 18, 2015 I guess from the first moment long ago that a man looked up in the night sky, and said to himself "I wonder what those bright shiny things are" we have used our imaginations to make sense of it.You nailed it! It even applies to finding the fossils in the geologic column- using vivid imagnation to make sense of it.
ERayR Posted March 18, 2015 Posted March 18, 2015 Without the ability to make accurate logical predictions about what has happened and will happen. We are better off hiding in caves being afraid of things that go bump in the night. You might want to live like that but I doubt the vast majority of the world does. Bump. Boo.
thesometimesaint Posted March 18, 2015 Posted March 18, 2015 From ghoulies and ghostiesAnd long-leggedy beastiesAnd things that go bump in the night,Good Lord, deliver us! BOO!
MormonFreeThinker Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Manuals, scriptures, first presidency statements, etc. (consistently published,,,) why did you ignore the examples I gave you?
Rob Osborn Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) "MormonFreeThinker" post="1209477290" timestamp="1426731924"]why did you ignore the examples I gave you?You said- " The "no blood before the Fall" is no longer published in new church manuals. "Global Flood" is not mentioned by any general authority."I never said anything, nor care about blood before the fall.The flood being global is official church doctrine. Edited March 19, 2015 by Rob Osborn
MormonFreeThinker Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 I never said anything, nor care about blood before the fall. but now you are contradicting yourself because "no blood" before the Fall was mentioned in many church publications, but it is not official doctrine. So what is official doctrine?
ERayR Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 but now you are contradicting yourself because "no blood" before the Fall was mentioned in many church publications, but it is not official doctrine. So what is official doctrine? So is it or isn't it official doctrine? Oh never mind I doubt you would know.
MormonFreeThinker Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 So is it or isn't it official doctrine? You tell me, "no blood" before the Fall is nowhere in scripture, and it is no longer published in new manuals. Is it official doctrine?
ERayR Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 You tell me, "no blood" before the Fall is nowhere in scripture, and it is no longer published in new manuals. Is it official doctrine? Oh so there is one thing you don't know?
MormonFreeThinker Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 Oh so there is one thing you don't know? What is official doctrine?
thesometimesaint Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 You tell me, "no blood" before the Fall is nowhere in scripture, and it is no longer published in new manuals. Is it official doctrine? It is all doctrine if it is in our Scriptures. Now when it comes down to the interpretation of those Scriptures not so much. The challenge comes in when the interpretation of those Scriptures makes no sense in relationship to other Scriptures, and science. There are three probable outcomes from the Flood story."Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."Albert Einstein1. Dismiss God. Blind2. Dismiss the science. Lame3. Find a way to combine the two and still retain faith in God and accept the science. 1
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