What About Dinosaurs?

[katherine the great]

I don't have a problem with dinoaurs... the physical fossil evidence is sufficient... in fact, I wonder at them.  The only real question I have is why were they so huge... 

It's hard to know in such an ancient species, but there are numerous selection pressures that cause large size.  Some animals grow large in an environment were there is plentiful food and few predators.  Others grow large as a defense against predators (the largest offspring survive in greater numbers than the smaller ones and the small ones are weeded out over many generations)  Height may have given them an advantage to food sources, etc.--probably a combination of things over time.  Whatever it was though, it offered them an advantage over their smaller siblings and they handed those genes for "largess" on to their offspring.  Being that big almost certainly helped lead to their extinction when plant life suffered and there wasn't enough flora to support their nutritional needs--then their size would work against them.  

[longview]

Please excuse this slight diversion but I just saw a FaceBook post about a NOVA show (a PBS program) that claims there are three times as much water within the bowels of the Earth as there are in the oceans.  Anybody know about this?

[Calm]

Perhaps this:

 

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/63049-earth-has-a-secret-reservoir-of-water-say-scientists/

[thesometimesaint]

Please excuse this slight diversion but I just saw a FaceBook post about a NOVA show (a PBS program) that claims there are three times as much water within the bowels of the Earth as there are in the oceans.  Anybody know about this?

Hydrates are some of the most common forms of compounds there are. They're even found in space.

[VideoGameJunkie]

I was scarred by dinosaurs at age 9 thanks to watching Jurassic Park alone at a slumber party at midnight when everyone else fell asleep. I was traumatized for a couple years over the dinosaur getting the guy on the port a potty and other scenes. I hope I'm never around any that can cause any danger.

[thesometimesaint]

I was scarred by dinosaurs at age 9 thanks to watching Jurassic Park alone at a slumber party at midnight when everyone else fell asleep. I was traumatized for a couple years over the dinosaur getting the guy on the port a potty and other scenes. I hope I'm never around any that can cause any danger.

 

Don't worry all the dinosaurs were just the coconut eating type.

[LOSTONE]

As I get older, I become a dinosaur. Don’t believe me? Ask my kid/s. They can tell you. They think I was born before the wheel ever came into play.

[Generational]

Dinosaur fossils could have resulted in the stories. Modern man wouldnt have been the first to encounter them.

Theory...the earth is made up of older planets that God used to put together this one including leftover bones.

God created the bones to deceive good Christians.

I don't buy either of them, I think God took a long time to create/organize the earth to the point it was ready for his children, Covenant Mankind, and the scriptures record from that time period, referring to the earlier eons as days/periods (Hebrew translates the word as either I believe).

Doesn't really matter though in the sense of what we are to become, it is our relationship with God now that does.

That being said, carbon dating is being "updated" constantly. Dinosaurs are a constant idea because of the evidence thereof. Carbon dating is a variable theory due to the lack of evidence thereof. Predate man? Perhaps. 10 million years old? Yeah...prove it :-P

[Silhouette]

I have my own theory about dinosaurs. I believe they roamed the rest of the earth while Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden, and not subject to the danger the world outside posed.

Then, when the fall came, and they were cast out of the safety of the Garden, Heavenly Father caused that the dinosaurs become extinct because they would have posed a severe threat to the survival and success of Adam and Eve and their posterity.

Just my own mind's way of explaining it to my satisfaction, bizarre though my theory may be LOL. But it does explain all the bones and such. I have no real faith in carbon dating because it's man-made, with great likelihood of error.

[Calm]

Mammals weren't much larger than a cat at the time of dinosaurs' extinction iirc.

There is a significant time theorised to have occurred between the extinction and appearance of homo sapiens, a little under 65 million years.

All science is man made and so is all scripture. If they are both likely to be wrong on that basis why believe anything?

Edited October 10, 2014 by calmoriah

[Silhouette]

We know dinosaurs existed because we have the bones. As for scripture being man-made, I respectfully disagree.

I didn't present my theory as fact. I only said that the explanation satisfies my mind and for me, reconciles both Biblical and physical evidence.

It doesn't have to work for everybody. It just has to work for me.

[Calm]

When I say scripture is manmade, I mean it is written by men, in men's languages and thus with man's understanding.  God spoke to men, but they were the ones that wrote it down in their language.  And no man's language is going to perfectly convey God's meaning.

 

I know you didn't present it as fact, just pointed out areas you might enjoy thinking about…for example, morphing your theory somewhat...Adam and Eve could have stayed a significant time in the Garden after the Fall where God taught them things or the Fall may not have occurred all at once but was a process, thus the dinosaurs died at the Fall but much time past before humans went out into the world.  IIRC it was one of BY's or another leader's theory that it was eating the fruit that changed their bodies…but what if it was eating the mortal food from outside the Garden that altered their bodies from truly immortal to mortal (maybe the fruit of knowledge was the trigger that allowed the mortal food to have this effect by somehow breaking the complete bond between their spiritual and physical body leaving the bond incomplete as it appears to be now…and as they ate the food, the immortal cells were replaced with mortal ones…that would have taken time, perhaps a very long time…during which evolution could have continued outside the Garden.

 

Or perhaps the Garden was not only where Adam and Eve lived, but from where they watched over the rest of the world as it evolved and guided evolution (having been given dominion by God over the animals not only after the creation, but before it depending on how one interprets the two creation stories in Genesis) until the earth was ready for mankind to dwell, perhaps they were able to trigger effects by their immortal bodies which had apparently participated in the Creation and thus appeared to have some sort of control over inorganic material and life forms…and when the earth was ready the Fall took place, including their ability to have full dominion over their environment.

[Silhouette]

Yes, these ideas are what I have in mind when I speak of them being sheltered in the Garden, while other things, including dinosaurs, were going on outside the Garden. You hit the nail on the head when you said we don't know how long they were in the Garden of Eden before they were cast out.

My "theory" reconciles to my satisfaction the ideas of Creation versus Evolution.

Regarding Scripture being man-made, by disagreeing, I meant that we know much of it came directly from God and Christ. Carbon dating is completely based on man's ideas alone, without any instruction from any outside sources. Scripture, however, does have outside sources...those being God and Christ.

Am I making any sense? LOL I was up at 3:30 a.m. this morning, so this may come across as senseless babble.

[thesometimesaint]

Yes, these ideas are what I have in mind when I speak of them being sheltered in the Garden, while other things, including dinosaurs, were going on outside the Garden. You hit the nail on the head when you said we don't know how long they were in the Garden of Eden before they were cast out.

My "theory" reconciles to my satisfaction the ideas of Creation versus Evolution.

Regarding Scripture being man-made, by disagreeing, I meant that we know much of it came directly from God and Christ. Carbon dating is completely based on man's ideas alone, without any instruction from any outside sources. Scripture, however, does have outside sources...those being God and Christ.

Am I making any sense? LOL I was up at 3:30 a.m. this morning, so this may come across as senseless babble. Maybe it makes sense only in my twisted little brain.

 

Classic Circular Logic.

[Silhouette]

As I've stated, the theory isn't presented as fact; merely as a means of satisfying the issue for me personally, which it does admirably. Perhaps it is "circular logic", but it serves it's purpose.

Besides, my brain cannot fathom anything deeper than this LOL

Edited October 10, 2014 by Silhouette

[thesometimesaint]

As I've stated, the theory isn't presented as fact; merely as a means of satisfying the issue for me personally, which it does admirably. Perhaps it is "circular logic", but it serves it's purpose.

Besides, my brain cannot fathom anything deeper than this LOL

 

I've never felt logical fallacies, including circular arguments, have much power. As Christians we should have much better arguments for our beliefs.

[Silhouette]

I never presented my theory as being meant to have power. It just works for me personally. I'm not trying to convince anyone else that the idea has merit, so I don't feel the need to worry about trying to make a good "argument" for it. People believe what they wish to about the dinosaur issue. It makes no difference to me one way or the other what people's individual ideas about the subject might be. This particular theory is how I envision things, and it's ok with me that others might have a different viewpoint.

[thesometimesaint]

I never presented my theory as being meant to have power. It just works for me personally. I'm not trying to convince anyone else that the idea has merit, so I don't feel the need to worry about trying to make a good "argument" for it. People believe what they wish to about the dinosaur issue. It makes no difference to me one way or the other what people's individual ideas about the subject might be. This particular theory is how I envision things, and it's ok with me that others might have a different viewpoint.

 

I don't presume to tell you what you have to believe. However we are a missionary church. Therefore I think it is imperative that we present the best arguments for our beliefs. I'm a scientist by disposition and training, "arguments" and "theories" mean something radically different than an individuals ideas, beliefs, or viewpoints. 

[Silhouette]

Well, for me, it IS just a viewpoint. And I don't see where this being a missionary Church has anything to do with this particular matter because I'm not out preaching that this is doctrine, and I'm not trying to convince anyone that it's true.

I admire you for your scientific approach to things, but I think more is being made of this than is necessary. As Freud said, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

[Calm]

Classic Circular Logic.

This is Social Hall, no reason she has to set up her ideas in proper debate form...

[Calm]

I don't presume to tell you what you have to believe. However we are a missionary church. Therefore I think it is imperative that we present the best arguments for our beliefs. I'm a scientist by disposition and training, "arguments" and "theories" mean something radically different than an individuals ideas, beliefs, or viewpoints. 

Again, Social Hall...just sharing ideas for fun, not arguing or trying to convert people here.

[Generational]

That's a rather cynical look at the world Cal.

Truth be told, neither science or scripture was man made, only the interpretation of each.

Man didnt wake up one morning and invent gravity. And regardless of whether man beleived that the sky was painted onto the ceiling of the world or that earth was the center of the universe, never changed the truth that earth lies in orbit around the sun within the milky way. Nor does hundreds of religions change the fact that God speaks to his children and some of them wrote about it. Man changed the interpretation, but not the fact that God exists and speaks to His children.

[Calm]

Only your interpretation of it.

Science is not nature, it is the study of nature. Gravity is not science, it exists if there is no man present to wonder about it. Science begins when men start asking questions about gravity and how the world works and start examining nature using certain methodologies.

I believe all good comes from God, I just see him as working through men and thus things are man made, even if inspired.

If you can show me scripture that is in God's handwriting and where man has not acted as at least a scribe for what God has had to tell us, I will change my mind.

I believe God works through men who are not infallible so that those who sincerely seek God will eventually go to him himself rather than rely on someone else to tell them of God.

The difference is between being Nephi who went to God to learn what his father's vision meant and Laman and Lemuel who chose instead to let others do the work for them and appeal to Nephi to tell them what it meant. Relying on prophets no matter how good of men they are will only take you so far. If you really want to find God, you must go directly to him. Prophets ate constantly telling us this and I take them at their word. I don't see this as particularly cynical save for the realisation that men are not perfect and therefore when they are involved, the end result will not be perfect either. That is fine, it can still be great and marvellous and a work of wonder, but it is not God.

Edited October 10, 2014 by calmoriah