Question Of Why There Doesn't Seem To Be Any New Revelation

[ERayR]

Wasn't the blacks being allowed the priesthood modern day revelation? And Thomas S Monson changing the ages that boys and girls can begin their missions. I'm sure others will come in time.

 

I did not say revelation had ceased only that the JS & BY doctrinal type. 

[teddyaware]

I'm so very grateful that JS didn't have your ward leader. We would not have the Book of Mormon ("Keep that to yourself, Joseph! HF left those plates for you alone!). We would have never learned of the First Vision, the Restoration of the. Priesthood, etc.

I'm not saying that HF doesn't sometimes give us revelation that is meant just for us. However, what gives your ward leader the temerity to tell YOU if you should share revelation given to YOU by HF? If HF didn't want you to share it, wouldn't He tell YOU so. And better yet, perhaps He wouldn't give it to you while you were in the middle of instructing others.

Perhaps, this is what stops the revelation from flowing -- someone is at the ready to shut it down at every turn.

It doesn't stop revelation from flowing, it causes those who receive personal revelation to keep it to themselves, and that's all. The nature of the miraculous event I shared proved to be difficult for some people to believe, and rather than turning out to be inspiring and edifying, sharing my experience backfired.

As I said, my original intent to share the experience was motivated by a desire to help the class members realize the day of miracles had not come to an end, but after the retelling backfired, and with help of the leader's wise counsel, I came to understand it isn't normally a wise move to reveal sacred things to the unprepared. And there's no doubt about it, some of those present were unprepared. If I had been more prayerful beforehand, the Spirit likely would have inspired me to know I must keep my silence.

Even so, if one has eyes to see he will realize, even now, the Church is absolutely awash in miracles. But the problem is God's "light shineth in darkness and the darkness comprehendeth it not."

Edited September 3, 2014 by teddyaware

[mormonnewb]

It doesn't stop revelation from flowing, it causes those who receive personal revelation to keep it to themselves, and that's all. The nature of the miraculous event I shared proved to be difficult for some people to believe, and rather than turning out to be inspiring and edifying, sharing my experience backfired.

As I said, my original intent to share the experience was motivated by a desire to help the class members realize the day of miracles had not come to an end, but after the retelling backfired, and with help of the leader's wise counsel, I came to understand it isn't normally a wise move to reveal sacred things to the unprepared. And there's no doubt about it, some of those present were unprepared. If I had been more prayerful beforehand, the Spirit likely would have inspired me to know I must keep my silence.

Even so, if one has eyes to see he will realize even now the Church is absolutely awash in miracles. But the problem is God's "light shineth in darkness and the darkness comprehendeth it not."

How will we know if the Church is awash in miracles if all such miracles are "too sacred to share"? Or they can only be shared with the "right people"?

The nature of prophetic utterance is that most people won't believe you nor will they appreciate you for it. In fact, if you have something REALLY prophetic to say, the people will likely KILL you.

Yet, the fact that the people "can't handle the truth" didn't seem a good justification to keep HF from giving prophesy throughout the ages.

And yes, I know about Christ's admonition about "pearls before swine" but you were at a GD class. Who are the "swine" in that context? And if you chose to share in HP meeting instead, would you have cleared out all the "swine" then?

Finally, the BOM is in every Marriott hotel in America. Some of the most sacred truths of Mormonism are laid bare to people who have rented rooms for the most illicit of purposes. If we can cast the Lord's most precious pearls before these people, then perhaps you should be able to share your gems with members of your ward FAMILY. Just a thought ...

[teddyaware]

How will we know if the Church is awash in miracles if all such miracles are "too sacred to share"? Or they can only be shared with the "right people"?

The nature of prophetic utterance is that most people won't believe you nor will they appreciate you for it. In fact, if you have something REALLY prophetic to say, the people will likely KILL you.

Yet, the fact that the people "can't handle the truth" didn't seem a good justification to keep HF from giving prophesy throughout the ages.

And yes, I know about Christ's admonition about "pearls before swine" but you were at a GD class. Who are the "swine" in that context? And if you chose to share in HP meeting instead, would you have cleared out all the "swine" then?

Finally, the BOM is in every Marriott hotel in America. Some of the most sacred truths of Mormonism are laid bare to people who have rented rooms for the most illicit of purposes. If we can cast the Lord's most precious pearls before these people, then perhaps you should be able to share your gems with members of your ward FAMILY. Just a thought ...

It's very simple, you have to have sufficient faith in the Lord and in His restored Church so that miracles will be wrought in your own life. Then it won't matter what other's think or say, for you will know for yourself. Until the day one becomes a revelator in his or her own right, he or she can expect nothing but doubt, frustration and inner turmoil.

Edited September 3, 2014 by teddyaware

[Tiki]

No new revelation? Who had that epiphany? That's new to me.

[Hamba Tuhan]

That's new to me.

 

Me too. Both my personal life and my ward are filled with revelation. Maybe people are looking for something else?

[mormonnewb]

Me too. Both my personal life and my ward are filled with revelation. Maybe people are looking for something else?

I suspect you might be right that some of us are looking for "something else." Do you have an example of some of the revelation coming out of your ward?

[Stone holm]

This question has been asked a couple of times on this board.  Joseph Smith and Brigham Young said it was because the people would not receive it.  It was this general disbelief among the Mormons themselves which caused Joseph Smith, as well as Brigham Young, so much apprehension and difficulty in teaching new doctrines

 

. . . there has been a great difficulty in getting anything into the heads of this generation. It has been like splitting hemlock knots with a corn-dogger for a wedge, and a pumpkin for a beetle. Even the Saints are slow to understand. I have tried for a number of years to get the minds of the Saints prepared to receive the things of God; but we frequently see some of them after suffering all they have for the work of God, will fly to pieces like glass as soon as anything comes that is contrary to their traditions; they cannot stand the fire at all. (TPJS, p. 331)

 

   When the principle of baptism for the dead was announced by Joseph Smith, the Mormons themselves seemed the most distraught. Once, plural marriage was hinted at in    a sermon by Joseph Smith, and in the afternoon he had to modify it because of the pressures put upon him. It was this sort of mental reservation that caused the Prophet to remark:

 

   There are a great many wise men, and women, too, in our midst, who are too wise to be taught; therefore, they must die in their ignorance, and in the resurrection they will find their mistake. (TPJS, p. 309)

 

I think that is still the problem and answers the question as to why we are not (as a church) receiving new and glorious revelation.

Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and committee reports by Priesthood Correlation who needs more revelation. We aren't living and reading what we already have. Wait till the Millenium until then shut up and conform. Didn't you get the memo on what you are to believe, better read some more.

[ERayR]

Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and committee reports by Priesthood Correlation who needs more revelation. We aren't living and reading what we already have. Wait till the Millenium until then shut up and conform. Didn't you get the memo on what you are to believe, better read some more.

 

Note: Again for the UMTEENTH time.  I never said we are not getting new revelation.  I said we were not getting the Joseph Smith - Brigham Young type.

[JLHPROF]

Note: Again for the UMTEENTH time.  I never said we are not getting new revelation.  I said we were not getting the Joseph Smith - Brigham Young type.

 

Well, maybe we are in the half hour of silence, when God only prompts but never speaks...

[Hamba Tuhan]

Do you have an example of some of the revelation coming out of your ward?

 

I'm uncertain why revelation in my ward would then come out of my ward, but I'm happy to share one example:

 

Early in my service as Young Men president, I took a very serious problem to my bishop. He was even newer in his calling than I was in mine, and to be honest, I didn't have a lot of confidence in him. In fact, when my housemate had predicted earlier that S--- K------ was going to be our new bishop, I told him I didn't think the Lord would be giving us a bishop with only five firing brain cells. Regardless, this was the sort of issue that one has to take to a priesthood leader. It was complicated and filled with numerous potential pitfalls, both legal and spiritual. The well-being of a family was at stake, and I understood clearly that getting anything wrong was likely to create almost irreparable harm to at least some of the parties involved.

 

I explained in great detail the situation as I understood it and then asked, 'Bishop, what are we going to do?'

 

His response: 'I have absolutely no idea'. And he didn't, either. His eyes were blank, and his face appeared panicked. For several minutes he didn't say another word; instead, he just looked past me. I assumed he'd been paralysed by fear, so I sat still, awkwardly waiting for him to recover.

 

After several minutes of silence, he looked back at me, all signs of panic erased, and said, 'OK, now I know what to do', and started to outline a complex and detailed plan. I grabbed a pencil and started writing furiously as he spoke without pause. When he finished, I felt completely at peace. Something spoke powerful comfort to my heart and assured me that what I'd written down was good and would work. With complete confidence, we both began implementing the plan.

 

It worked. Every single pitfall was avoided. The family was kept safe. In the end, every person involved had been built up and blessed instead of harmed or hurt.

 

I still don't have confidence in my former bishop as a man, but I loved every single moment I spent with him as he served as a conduit for revelation for our ward -- the average attendance of which tripled during his five years of service.

[VideoGameJunkie]

He sounds like he was a great Bishop.

[ERayR]

I'm uncertain why revelation in my ward would then come out of my ward, but I'm happy to share one example:

 

Early in my service as Young Men president, I took a very serious problem to my bishop. He was even newer in his calling than I was in mine, and to be honest, I didn't have a lot of confidence in him. In fact, when my housemate had predicted earlier that S--- K------ was going to be our new bishop, I told him I didn't think the Lord would be giving us a bishop with only five firing brain cells. Regardless, this was the sort of issue that one has to take to a priesthood leader. It was complicated and filled with numerous potential pitfalls, both legal and spiritual. The well-being of a family was at stake, and I understood clearly that getting anything wrong was likely to create almost irreparable harm to at least some of the parties involved.

 

I explained in great detail the situation as I understood it and then asked, 'Bishop, what are we going to do?'

 

His response: 'I have absolutely no idea'. And he didn't, either. His eyes were blank, and his face appeared panicked. For several minutes he didn't say another word; instead, he just looked past me. I assumed he'd been paralysed by fear, so I sat still, awkwardly waiting for him to recover.

 

After several minutes of silence, he looked back at me, all signs of panic erased, and said, 'OK, now I know what to do', and started to outline a complex and detailed plan. I grabbed a pencil and started writing furiously as he spoke without pause. When he finished, I felt completely at peace. Something spoke powerful comfort to my heart and assured me that what I'd written down was good and would work. With complete confidence, we both began implementing the plan.

 

It worked. Every single pitfall was avoided. The family was kept safe. In the end, every person involved had been built up and blessed instead of harmed or hurt.

 

I still don't have confidence in my former bishop as a man, but I loved every single moment I spent with him as he served as a conduit for revelation for our ward -- the average attendance of which tripled during his five years of service.

 

That is what I have been talking about.  There is revelation on the individual level but not the JS and BY on doctrine.  With personnel revelation working so well perhaps it is not needed.  Maybe we are approaching the day that Joseph Smith dreamed of when he is reported as saying he longed for the day when everyone would be a prophet in their own right.  I certainly hope it is the case.

[Stone holm]

ERayR , doesn't fit into the committee format, needs to come in a business memo format.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Note: Again for the UMTEENTH time.  I never said we are not getting new revelation.  I said we were not getting the Joseph Smith - Brigham Young type.

IOW, not getting canonized colossal revelation. I agree. We do get new revelations all the time at GC.

[stemelbow]

I think there is still a lot of revelation in the Church today, just not the Joseph Smith, Brigham Young expounding doctrine kind.  I do the personal revelation kind is alive and well and perhaps that is the way it should be thus putting us personally responsible for our understanding and growth.

As it is, the Church doesn't provide members any added benefit in terms of revelation than any other Church or organization. But wonder if that's how it's always been then. And it really really makes me wonder what revelation is getting heaped upon individuals who are culturally and traditionally steeped in something far different than any of us which revelation contains truths and understandings that we continue to miss? My goodness with this notion that revelations these days is limited to individuals we're going to have to face the notion that we may very well be missing many many truths God is trying to get to us.

 

I think your SP does not know or understand the scriptures.

Everyone has some understanding and no one has complete understanding. He's somewhere on the spectrum just like your or I.

Reading Bovokoy's latest book on the first five books of Moses brought me many wonderful ideas and thoughts about the scriptures and understanding them.

[stemelbow]

That is what I have been talking about.  There is revelation on the individual level but not the JS and BY on doctrine.  With personnel revelation working so well perhaps it is not needed.  Maybe we are approaching the day that Joseph Smith dreamed of when he is reported as saying he longed for the day when everyone would be a prophet in their own right.  I certainly hope it is the case.

This type of revelation comes to atheists, agnostics and muslims just the same, though. So we're back wondering what revelation have we been missing no?

[ERayR]

ERayR , doesn't fit into the committee format, needs to come in a business memo format.

 

Sarcasm dully noted but it is unhelpful.

[ERayR]

This type of revelation comes to atheists, agnostics and muslims just the same, though. So we're back wondering what revelation have we been missing no?

 

IMNSHO it does not come as it does to one who has received the gift of the Holy Ghost.  At least that has been my experience.

[ERayR]

As it is, the Church doesn't provide members any added benefit in terms of revelation than any other Church or organization. But wonder if that's how it's always been then. And it really really makes me wonder what revelation is getting heaped upon individuals who are culturally and traditionally steeped in something far different than any of us which revelation contains truths and understandings that we continue to miss? My goodness with this notion that revelations these days is limited to individuals we're going to have to face the notion that we may very well be missing many many truths God is trying to get to us.

 

Everyone has some understanding and no one has complete understanding. He's somewhere on the spectrum just like your or I.

Reading Bovokoy's latest book on the first five books of Moses brought me many wonderful ideas and thoughts about the scriptures and understanding them.

 

No with personnel revelation alive and well everyone will receive everything they have prepared to receive and will miss nothing.

 

I think a perfect understanding will have to wait for the other side of the veil.

[ERayR]

IOW, not getting canonized colossal revelation. I agree. We do get new revelations all the time at GC.

 

Yes.

[stemelbow]

No with personnel revelation alive and well everyone will receive everything they have prepared to receive and will miss nothing.

 

I think a perfect understanding will have to wait for the other side of the veil.

It's reasonable and very much, IMO, worth considering whether we are too heavily steeped in traditional and perhaps cultural assumptions that we fail to even listen to the possibility of being a little off on the course intended of us. As we travel the course of life all it takes is tiny ticks sending us off course a little to put us, in the end, somewhere unintended. With environment being such a heavy influence on who we are and who we grow into, I maintain we could be off-course, even the slightest bit and not realize it. Our vision is simply too clouded to see clearly enough.

That's not to say we shouldn't maintain, but we should be able to stop and ask, "wait, are we off on this". It seems to me we're geared to too quickly think, "not a chance, we don't even need to reconsider our assumptions".

[JLHPROF]

IOW, not getting canonized colossal revelation. I agree. We do get new revelations all the time at GC.

 

Yes and no.  I am curious what the last revelation at GC was.  I don't doubt that the leaders are inspired in the running of things, but when was the last time ANYTHING big or small, major or minor, of a doctrinal nature was newly revealed from heaven?

 

When was the last time a new teaching was given by a GA at Conference that wasn't already an established teaching of the Church?  And I don't mean some administrative tweak or announcing a new temple or calling.  I mean, when was the last time a General Authority taught a new doctrine or added new information to an existing doctrine?

 

Take the Proclamation on Family, often held up as a revelatory document.  There was nothing in there that wasn't already a fully established teaching of the Church.  I don't think God has given the Church a single speck of new doctrine in decades.

[ERayR]

It's reasonable and very much, IMO, worth considering whether we are too heavily steeped in traditional and perhaps cultural assumptions that we fail to even listen to the possibility of being a little off on the course intended of us. As we travel the course of life all it takes is tiny ticks sending us off course a little to put us, in the end, somewhere unintended. With environment being such a heavy influence on who we are and who we grow into, I maintain we could be off-course, even the slightest bit and not realize it. Our vision is simply too clouded to see clearly enough.

That's not to say we shouldn't maintain, but we should be able to stop and ask, "wait, are we off on this". It seems to me we're geared to too quickly think, "not a chance, we don't even need to reconsider our assumptions". 

 

According to Heber C. Kimball. 

  After a while the Gentiles will gather to this place by the thousands and Salt Lake City will be classified among the wicked cities of the world.  A spirit of speculation and extravagance will take possession of the Saints, and the result will be financial bondage.

  Persecution comes next, and all true Latter-day Saints will be tested to the limit.  Many will apostatize, and others will stand still, not knowing what to do.  "Darkness will cover the earth and gross darkness the minds of the people." (Prophecy Key to the Future -pg 26; Duane Crowther) a copy of this prophecy is available in BYU library

 

Mosiah Hancock recorded a dream of which Brigham Young related to him. 

He conversed freely on the situation of the Saints in the mountains, and said that he dreaded the time when the Saints would become popular with the world; for he had seen the sorrow, in a dream, or in dreams, this people clothed in the fashions of Babylon and drinking in the spirit of Babylon until one could hardly tell a Saint from a black-leg.  And he felt like shouting "To your tents, Oh Israel!" because it was the only thing that could keep this people pure . . . Many of this people for the sake of riches and popularity, will sell themselves for that which will canker their souls and lead them down to misery and despair.  It would be better for them to dwell in wigwams among the Indians than to dwell with the gentiles and miss the glories which God wishes them to obtain.  (Prophecy Key to the Future -pg 26-27; Duane Crowther)  A typewritten copy of Mosiah Hancock's diary is available in the BYU library

 

There are other prophecies where in it is stated that this people(LDS) will not abide sound doctrine.  I fear we may be at this point.

[ERayR]

Yes and no.  I am curious what the last revelation at GC was.  I don't doubt that the leaders are inspired in the running of things, but when was the last time ANYTHING big or small, major or minor, of a doctrinal nature was newly revealed from heaven?

 

When was the last time a new teaching was given by a GA at Conference that wasn't already an established teaching of the Church?  And I don't mean some administrative tweak or announcing a new temple or calling.  I mean, when was the last time a General Authority taught a new doctrine or added new information to an existing doctrine?

 

Take the Proclamation on Family, often held up as a revelatory document.  There was nothing in there that wasn't already a fully established teaching of the Church.  I don't think God has given the Church a single speck of new doctrine in decades.

 

See above post # 99.  I do not think the fault lies wholly with the GA's.