Who Are The Souls That Wind Up In Outer Darkness?

[jasonincognito]

Thanks very much for the responses - much appreciated!

[cdowis]

You can be relieved that you have nothing to worry about.

 

On the other side, you may be interested that we believe that those good people who do not join the church will go to "heaven".  It would be fair to compare the terrestrial kingdom to the concept of heaven.

Edited August 23, 2014 by cdowis

[VideoGameJunkie]

cdowis, what about people who make those covenants in the temple and then foolishly sin and break those covenants, but repent after. Are they mocking the holy ghost and headed to Outer Darkness?

[cdowis]

I  thought it was obvious, but for those who are confused, let me clarify:

 

A non-endowed individual is not a candidate for Outer Darkness, regardless of the nature of their sins.

 

The "unforgivable sin" can only be committed by one who has accepted the covenants of the endowment.  This sin is not covered by the Atonement.  Otherwise, they are able to receive forgiveness thru repentance and the power of the Atonement.

 

Hope that helps.

Edited August 23, 2014 by cdowis

[VideoGameJunkie]

Cdowis, that makes me think I'm going to Outer Darkness.  I say that because I am an endowed member and have foolishly broken temple covenants. I've tried to repent and confessed to my BIshop, but I still feel the guilt in my mind. Maybe this is a sign I'm going there since I still feel the guilt every hour of every day. I think I did blasphemy against the Holy Ghost because I knew what I was doing was wrong, I had the feeling it was wrong, and I did it anyway. Maybe that was the Holy Ghost telling me no, and me not listening. Should I prepare for an eternity of suffering and unquenchable fire? Because I sometimes view myself as a candidate for hell.

Edited August 23, 2014 by VideoGameJunkie

[cdowis]

The very feelings that you show in your post makes it clear that you have not committed the unpardonable sin.  Satan wants to deceive you that you are past repentance.

 

I suggest that you speak with your bishop and he will explain it to you.  I have deliberately avoided talking about the nature of this sin in this forum, but such a person would not express any regret for their actions as you have done.

Edited August 23, 2014 by cdowis

[Nofear]

For my part I believe Outer Darkness is limited to those that simply refuse any part of God's way. God has his kingdoms and each of those are bound by certain degrees of willing compliance, with the Terrestrial needing the least amount of deference. Outer Darkness is for those who have seen, understand God's purposes for us (i.e. our happiness) and fully reject his method and goals. Hence, they knowingly and willfully want no part of any of God's Kingdoms and hence are thrust out.

 

To anybody with half a brain that is like looking at the sun and saying, "No. Bad." But they undoubtedly view it differently. I imagine to them God and his plans (e.g. Plan of Happiness) are misguided, ineffective, and just plain wrong. Admittedly there are people now who say that but it is out of ignorance. The children of perdition can make no such claim.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Nofear

[VideoGameJunkie]

cdowis, I'll try to set up a time to talk to my Bishop about past mistakes still eating at my brain even though I've repented and life has moved on.

 

Nofear, It's hard to comprehend a mind and heart that want no part of God or his works.

[Nofear]

Nofear, It's hard to comprehend a mind and heart that want no part of God or his works.

 

That is good.

[VideoGameJunkie]

Haha thanks. No matter how many mistakes we make and how serious they are, we should always love Heavenly Father and want to return to Him again.

[AndyDnom]

my understanding of mormon doctrine is that people in outer darkness are those who have had their second annointings but then left the church. And thus, there could be daughters of perdition, in my opinion.

[katherine the great]

Cdowis, that makes me think I'm going to Outer Darkness.  I say that because I am an endowed member and have foolishly broken temple covenants. I've tried to repent and confessed to my BIshop, but I still feel the guilt in my mind. Maybe this is a sign I'm going there since I still feel the guilt every hour of every day. I think I did blasphemy against the Holy Ghost because I knew what I was doing was wrong, I had the feeling it was wrong, and I did it anyway. Maybe that was the Holy Ghost telling me no, and me not listening. Should I prepare for an eternity of suffering and unquenchable fire? Because I sometimes view myself as a candidate for hell.

No.  I think (hope) that what he is trying to say is that unendowed people are not even capable of committing the unpardonable sin because they don't have the necessary knowledge.  Endowed people are a step closer because they have made sacred covenants, but that does not mean that every person who breaks one of their temple covenants is a son or daughter of perdition.  It happens frequently and  repentance is still available to them, albeit probably a lengthier process.  A person who denies the Holy Ghost would never even feel remorseful.  They deny the power of God completely after having experienced it first hand.  I don't think there are many people who fit into that category.  It seems to me that it would almost have to be a high church official, someone who has had a visitation from deity and has a sure knowledge well beyond regular faith.  Even Peter denied knowing the Savior and he repented and is most certainly one of the Lord's choicest servants.

[VideoGameJunkie]

Good point about Peter. Then I wonder if there's anyone that's lived on the earth that's going there. Maybe it was just the 1/3 and that's it. Everyone else will still go to spirit prison, but wind up in the Telestial Kingdom that are bad.

[thesometimesaint]

Good point about Peter. Then I wonder if there's anyone that's lived on the earth that's going there. Maybe it was just the 1/3 and that's it. Everyone else will still go to spirit prison, but wind up in the Telestial Kingdom that are bad.

 

God is a successful God. So while there will a relative few in Outer Darkness, only those that want to end up there.

[Rob Osborn]

Just to clarify, No one will be saved from eternal hell without complete repentance from "all of their sins". In the end, all the saved are saved from "all" their sins. In the case of David of the Old Testament for instance, he is forgiven all of his sins "except" for the murder or Uriah the Hittite. Thus, he is not saved at all- he committed the unpardonable sin because he entered into the holy covenant of the priesthood in marriage and then committed murder. All of his other sins- the adultery, etc, was forgiven him.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Rob Osborn

[VideoGameJunkie]

How do you perform complete repentance? I can't remember every sin I've committed in my life since I turned 8.

[Calm]

Don't worry about remembering sins. If it is necessary the Spirit will bring it to our minds in this life or the next. Focus on eing cleansed of them and the desire to sin at all. That will cover e erything whether you remember them or not.

Remember the sacrament operates as if you were being baptized and you can begin each week pure as the moment you emerged from the water. Remember Christ and how his sacrifice can wash your soul clean of the stain of sin.

I personally don't believe in this life we need to remember our sins in order to repent of them. In fact sometimes too much remembering can get in the way of turning into the person who not only doesn't commit those sins, but has no desire to do so.

Restitution is a part of repentance but if we try to be the best friends, neighbours and total strangers we can be, I think that will take care of itself save for the most extreme ones.

Edited August 25, 2014 by calmoriah

[Tsuzuki]

I'll try not to invite the anger of the mods by speaking in Latin, but considering who I believe the Holy Ghost is, you can find yourself in Outer Darkness by rejecting the light of reason and critical thinking. However, if you can manage to get that light back again, you've got a way out.

[timothy1983]

Hey Guys, this is the most relevant forum I could find for a  response, I'm doing an assignment and am after someone to answer the following questions from me regarding mormonism and sin, the don't have to be super long answers and if there are scriptural references to support that would be greatly appreciated:-) 

 

1. What is the definition of sin?

 

1. How did Sin enter the world?

 

1. Are we born with sin?

 

1. How does this affect mankind now?

1. A person of Mormon faith
2. A person outside the Mormon faith (but having another faith)
3. A person who does not have any faith

 

1. What causes us to sin?

 

1. Does everybody:

 

1. Commit sin
2. Have sin in them

 

1. Are there different levels/grades of sin?

 

1. What are the repercussions/punishment of Sin?

1. While mankind is alive on earth
2. After mankind dies

 

1. What covers/makes up for sin?

Thanks in advance:-)

 

[Calm]

I'll try not to invite the anger of the mods by speaking in Latin, but considering who I believe the Holy Ghost is, you can find yourself in Outer Darkness by rejecting the light of reason and critical thinking. However, if you can manage to get that light back again, you've got a way out.

Videogamejunkie, as much as I like Tsuzuki and think he's a nice guy, I do feel the need to remind you that he has his own pretty unique blends of faiths, only one of which is LDS...so there is nothing wrong with pondering what he says and seeing if there is truth in it, but please don't assume he is teaching standard LDS beliefs or even typical nonLDS Christian truths

And Tsuzuki, in speaking with VGJ, it would IMO be considerate of you to remember he deals with obsessive compulsive tendencies and it is possible that he may be confused by your approaches not knowing your background and how you got there and perhaps making the wrong assumptions.

It would be nicest to present things in straightforward, plain and literal ways at least until VGJ has the background on your approach to understand the more subtle or incomplete comments.

A d honestly I wouldn't mind you using more plain straightforward with myself as well. I love symbolism, riddles and such but if I feel someone is trying to be tricky for entertainment or shock value, he'll lose my interest instantly...and my trust in him that he actually believes what he claims to be teaching as there is fun and delight and then there is disrespect even of one's own faith. If you hadn't shared in the past your history, I would have judged there to be too much game playing...I may be wrong, but that is how it appears to me this time around...less delight in light and knowledge and who cares what people think, now more arrogance in knowing things others do not....or something.

[Calm]

Hey Guys, this is the most relevant forum I could find for a response, I'm doing an assignment and am after someone to answer the following questions from me regarding mormonism and sin, the don't have to be super long answers and if there are scriptural references to support that would be greatly appreciated:-)

• What is the definition of sin?

• How did Sin enter the world?

• Are we born with sin?

• How does this affect mankind now?

• A person of Mormon faith
• A person outside the Mormon faith (but having another faith)
• A person who does not have any faith

• What causes us to sin?

• Does everybody:

• Commit sin
• Have sin in them

• Are there different levels/grades of sin?

• What are the repercussions/punishment of Sin?

• While mankind is alive on earth
• After mankind dies

• What covers/makes up for sin?

Thanks in advance:-)

Assignment for what and what will happen to these answers...and were you instructed to ask a variety of people or look up the info yourself....shockingly we get request from students to do their homework for them. I love the idea of going to the source, but want to be sure I am helping and not hindering learning.

[Tsuzuki]

And Tsuzuki, in speaking with VGJ, it would IMO be considerate of you to remember he deals with obsessive compulsive tendencies and it is possible that he may be confused by your approaches not knowing your background and how you got there and perhaps making the wrong assumptions.

It would be nicest to present things in straightforward, plain and literal ways at least until VGJ has the background on your approach to understand the more subtle or incomplete comments.

A d honestly I wouldn't mind you using more plain straightforward with myself as well. I love symbolism, riddles and such but if I feel someone is trying to be tricky for entertainment or shock value, he'll lose my interest instantly...and my trust in him that he actually believes what he claims to be teaching as there is fun and delight and then there is disrespect even of one's own faith. If you hadn't shared in the past your history, I would have judged there to be too much game playing...I may be wrong, but that is how it appears to me this time around...less delight in light and knowledge and who cares what people think, now more arrogance in knowing things others do not....or something.

I got in trouble the last time I tried to speak plainly, but here goes. I hope I don't get in trouble this time.

 

I don't think that Outer Darkness is a real place, and is instead a metaphor for willful ignorance. Furthermore, I don't believe that Lucifer and the 1/3 are consigned to anything resembling Outer Darkness, but in fact, I believe that Lucifer is the Holy Ghost, the very thing that it is unforgivable to deny. In this sense, Lucifer represents the light of reason and critical thinking, and rejecting this amounts to willful ignorance. However, this isn't necessarily a forever thing, and if one can stop being willfully ignorant, they won't be in "Outer Darkness" anymore.

[cdowis]

Sin is the willlful breaking of the commandments of God and can be overcome only thru the atonement of Christ and repentance.

 

Children under the age of eight, and those who are not "under the law" (mentally incapable to understand beyond the age of eight) cannot be held accountable.

 

Sin has existed for eternity, and entered the world after the transgression of Adam and Eve.  Every individual except Christ has committed sin.  Any sin committed prevents us from returning to God -- and certain sins are more difficult to repent of than others.  There is a sin for which forgiveness cannot be granted.

 

I suggest that you look at the articles here:

 

https://www.lds.org/search?lang=eng&query=sin

Edited August 25, 2014 by cdowis

[Nofear]

I see two levels of "sin". There are the actual behaviors which are in defiance with the good. There is also the inclination/desire/nature which is part of us which is in defiance with the good. Both "sins" require repentance and the Atonement absolutely covers both and until our nature is changed the latter sin, and not just the former, will keep us from exaltation.

[thesometimesaint]

Just to clarify, No one will be saved from eternal hell without complete repentance from "all of their sins". In the end, all the saved are saved from "all" their sins. In the case of David of the Old Testament for instance, he is forgiven all of his sins "except" for the murder or Uriah the Hittite. Thus, he is not saved at all- he committed the unpardonable sin because he entered into the holy covenant of the priesthood in marriage and then committed murder. All of his other sins- the adultery, etc, was forgiven him.

 

Not even David will spend eternity in Hell.