Catholic Church Cracks Down On Feminist Nuns

[why me]

The cathoilc church is continuing to crack down on a feminist nuns' organization under pope francis. I find that what the catholic church has said to be right on. However, after reading the article I began to think about the lds ordain women movement. Would the lds church be correct in issuing a similiar kind of edict about their radical feminist themes? And if so, what would be the reaction of members of this forum and critics of the lds church?

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/pope-francis-vatican-continue-crackdown-u-s-nuns-article-1.1783576

 

The photos of the nuns may not be apart of the nun's organization. Interestingly, I think that I know one of the nuns in the photos and although this person has left the convent, it was not over feminist issues.

[theplains]

The cathoilc church is continuing to crack down on a feminist nuns' organization under pope francis. I find that what the catholic church has said to be right on.

 

Do you think nuns would get any extra recognition from God in their service to Him if they

were also recognized by the Catholic Church?  I would say no.  The women in the church

I attend take 1 Peter 2:5 literally to apply to them so they do not seek ordination to the

priesthood.

 

Thanks,

Jim

[why me]

Do you think nuns would get any extra recognition from God in their service to Him if they

were also recognized by the Catholic Church?  I would say no.  The women in the church

I attend take 1 Peter 2:5 literally to apply to them so they do not seek ordination to the

priesthood.

 

Thanks,

Jim

My point was that the catholic church is cracking down on feminist nuns, even under pope francis. However, we also have are own feminists who are demanding changes in the lds church. Would the lds church be correct in issuing such concern and admonition toward the lds radical feminists. And if so, what would be the reaction from the members.

 

The catholic church does not challenges from the ranks. The lds church seems to be more accommodating these days to dissenters.

[Porter_Rockwell]

My point was that the catholic church is cracking down on feminist nuns, even under pope francis. However, we also have are own feminists who are demanding changes in the lds church. Would the lds church be correct in issuing such concern and admonition toward the lds radical feminists. And if so, what would be the reaction from the members.

 

The catholic church does not challenges from the ranks. The lds church seems to be more accommodating these days to dissenters.

Your question makes me proud that I'm not religious anymore. I intend to have my daughter read it for her personal growth.

What if we saw these 'contrarian women' as human beings with opinions as valid as yours and mine...regardless of gender or characteristic?

Your comment makes me believe that humans really are only a 1/2 chromosome from being apes.

Sorry, but the implications of your query repulse me on behalf of all women...who deserve voice as much as any man.

[mormonnewb]

My point was that the catholic church is cracking down on feminist nuns, even under pope francis. However, we also have are own feminists who are demanding changes in the lds church. Would the lds church be correct in issuing such concern and admonition toward the lds radical feminists. And if so, what would be the reaction from the members.

 

The catholic church does not challenges from the ranks. The lds church seems to be more accommodating these days to dissenters.

The Catholic Church has one path for dissent not available to Mormons -- quiet defiance. For example, most American Catholics think that birth control is acceptable, while the church itself does not. However, Catholics need not protest and march for a policy change because they can simply choose to ignore the directive. Mormons don't have that choice; at least, if they'd like to see their kids get married.

[thesometimesaint]

The Catholic Church has one path for dissent not available to Mormons -- quiet defiance. For example, most American Catholics think that birth control is acceptable, while the church itself does not. However, Catholics need not protest and march for a policy change because they can simply choose to ignore the directive. Mormons don't have that choice; at least, if they'd like to see their kids get married.

 

Actually stated policy of the Church is that it up to the couple and the Lord to decide if and when to use BC.

[mormonnewb]

Actually stated policy of the Church is that it up to the couple and the Lord to decide if and when to use BC.

Oh yeah, I guess I was being unclear. No, our Church doesn't have a policy against birth control. I was simply pointing out that the Catholics have a safety valve that we don't have -- quiet defiance. So long as the person doesn't openly oppose their church, there probably isn't much that the church will do to them.

However, our Church has a powerful stick -- access to the temple. A Mormon who has a problem with, say, obeying the WoW must comply, lie or miss their daughter's wedding.

As a result, I'm not so sure that our Church is more "accommodating to dissenters."

[thesometimesaint]

Oh yeah, I guess I was being unclear. No, our Church doesn't have a policy against birth control. I was simply pointing out that the Catholics have a safety valve that we don't have -- quiet defiance. So long as the person doesn't openly oppose their church, there probably isn't much that the church will do to them.

However, our Church has a powerful stick -- access to the temple. A Mormon who has a problem with, say, obeying the WoW must comply, lie or miss their daughter's wedding.

As a result, I'm not so sure that our Church is more "accommodating to dissenters."

 

Depends on how you look at it. Temple work is a blessing and I want all the blessings I can get. Following the WoW gives me blessings that someone not following it can't have. Not just the Temple but sure knowledge that I'm doing what my Lord wants. The Temple is just an added blessing.

 

It never made much sense to me to belong to a voluntary organization and want to not follow its rules. There are plenty of other churches out there that has less strict rules about dissent. I'm sure they do good work and follow the Lord according to their understanding. The LDS are different. We believe we are the only church on this earth with the power and authority from God to do what we do. So deliberately going up against the rules of the Church has grave implications for a member.

[rlds_coc_lds]

Oh yeah, I guess I was being unclear. No, our Church doesn't have a policy against birth control. I was simply pointing out that the Catholics have a safety valve that we don't have -- quiet defiance. So long as the person doesn't openly oppose their church, there probably isn't much that the church will do to them.

However, our Church has a powerful stick -- access to the temple. A Mormon who has a problem with, say, obeying the WoW must comply, lie or miss their daughter's wedding.

As a result, I'm not so sure that our Church is more "accommodating to dissenters."

 

I think it's hard to say either Church is more accomodating. In both churches to participate in the sacred ordinances (the temple for Mormons, the sacrament for Catholics) you must obey the commandments laid out by the Church. The big difference between the two is that the Catholic church doesn't have an interview to determine if you can partake in the sacrament (although it does before marriage).

 

But if you believe in the commandments of the Catholic Church then you should feel guilty in taking the sacrament without saying confession, which is no different (in my mind) then feeling guilty for lying to a Bishop in a temple recommend interview. It just seems odd to me that someone would feel bad lying to another person than they would lying to themselves (or worse trying to fool God). If they don't believe in the Church than it shouldn't matter one way or another. The Catholic and Mormon churches seem somewhat distinct in their feelings about having specific rules they have to abide by or you can't participate in certain activities. It comes down to if you believe in those rules or not. (Of course it's more complex than that, and there have been threads about the WoW and it's original intentions, for instance, but ultimately if you don't agree with the current implementation of the rule you can "honestly" say you are following it if you follow what you believe to be it's meaning).

 

I think it's possible to get around a lot of the issues in the Mormon church's interviews if you don't agree with them as long as you're not publicly advocating your dissension, just as in the Catholic Church. The question is if someone feels guilty not being open to the Bishop about their different beliefs in regards to the questions.

[why me]

Your question makes me proud that I'm not religious anymore. I intend to have my daughter read it for her personal growth.

What if we saw these 'contrarian women' as human beings with opinions as valid as yours and mine...regardless of gender or characteristic?

Your comment makes me believe that humans really are only a 1/2 chromosome from being apes.

Sorry, but the implications of your query repulse me on behalf of all women...who deserve voice as much as any man.

I think that the point that the apostle Paul made is still true today. No church can survive with offshoots claiming this or that within the greater body of the church. This was the pope's point. If you believe that a church can survive various offshoots within it, each claiming this or that I think that you would be mistaken. Nothing wrong with feminism per se. However, if it is to pressure the church to change policy or to put pressure on the church, I think that it would be wrong.

[why me]

The Catholic Church has one path for dissent not available to Mormons -- quiet defiance. For example, most American Catholics think that birth control is acceptable, while the church itself does not. However, Catholics need not protest and march for a policy change because they can simply choose to ignore the directive. Mormons don't have that choice; at least, if they'd like to see their kids get married.

 

The Catholic Church has one path for dissent not available to Mormons -- quiet defiance. For example, most American Catholics think that birth control is acceptable, while the church itself does not. However, Catholics need not protest and march for a policy change because they can simply choose to ignore the directive. Mormons don't have that choice; at least, if they'd like to see their kids get married.

However, they should refrain from taking communion or the eucharist if they openly use birth control or have sinned. But many catholics seem to ignore it and take the communion anyway. But mormons can do this too with the sacrament.

Edited May 8, 2014 by why me

[isaacalsop]

The Catholic Church has one path for dissent not available to Mormons -- quiet defiance. For example, most American Catholics think that birth control is acceptable, while the church itself does not. However, Catholics need not protest and march for a policy change because they can simply choose to ignore the directive. Mormons don't have that choice; at least, if they'd like to see their kids get married.

And while I disagree with total control, I as a Catholic envy the LDS commitment to their faith, compared to many of my fellow catholics, especially catholic youth, who hardly take it seriously. As a catholic let me shed light on the discussion: I wish the catholic church would adopt the lds behavior on things, mainly that those who dont wanna take the church seriously can leave. I wish the RCC taught religious ed as seriously as our LDS friends do...

[isaacalsop]

However, they should refrain from taking communion or the eucharist if they openly use birth control or have sinned. But many catholics seem to ignore it and take the communion anyway. But mormons can do this too with the sacrament.

Exactly. See as a Catholic teen I will tell you: we have rules that are clear. People dont folow them, so there are consequences, but they are ignored. In the RCC it is not the amount of control over members that the church should increase(this is the thing about lds that bothers me) but it is educating the kids. As a teen i will tell you: I have had mormon friends who are amazingly strong in their faith, but i dont see that in the catholic schools because many catholic teachers dont take it seriously. Its the education that LDS does better. 

[Ran]

Exactly. See as a Catholic teen I will tell you: we have rules that are clear. People dont folow them, so there are consequences, but they are ignored. In the RCC it is not the amount of control over members that the church should increase(this is the thing about lds that bothers me) but it is educating the kids. As a teen i will tell you: I have had mormon friends who are amazingly strong in their faith, but i dont see that in the catholic schools because many catholic teachers dont take it seriously. Its the education that LDS does better. 

 

 

Considering that, in the Catholic tradition, parents are "the first and foremost educators of their children," (John Paul II, Familiaris Consortio 36) the problem is more fundamental than any catechetical defect in Catholic schools.

[The Nehor]

Father Jack explains it best:

 

[Porter_Rockwell]

I think that the point that the apostle Paul made is still true today. No church can survive with offshoots claiming this or that within the greater body of the church. This was the pope's point. If you believe that a church can survive various offshoots within it, each claiming this or that I think that you would be mistaken. Nothing wrong with feminism per se. However, if it is to pressure the church to change policy or to put pressure on the church, I think that it would be wrong.

Feminism is a dirty word in the LDS church. Boyd K. Packer, indicated that the three biggest dangers to the church are "the gay-lesbian movement, the feminist movement ..., and the ever-present challenge from scholars or intellectuals."

Not surprisingly, the LDS Church strongly opposed the Equal Rights Amendment in the 70s and discriminated against blacks until 1978 (and still against women).

The LDS church has over 100 off shoots, some actually practicing the total gospel of Joe Smith. There are thousands of Christian churches. There are at least 20 major religions in the world.

The Pope who? The vicar of Christ on earth? If you're a mormon you certainly don't believe that assertion...so why quote a delusioned or deceptive old-virgins' position on women? Frankly what would he know about women? This Pope and his church engender and protect criminal pedarist priest; men who's crimes against children are too horrid and vile to post in this forum. Some of those sex offenders are harboured as fugitives in Vatican City....so as to avoid criminal prosecution and would have been present in conclave when this pope was appointed. That's your source of piety or humanistic, intellectual query?

Paul of Tarsus, the first Pope of the Catholic Church and the sociopathic murderer of Christians (or early mormons if you will) is the primary source of logical and rationale appeal? Paul, appears to have been an unmitigated mysoginist who taught women should remain silent in church and subject to their husbands. These are not Christ-like teachings of acceptance.

Paul also extols (Romans 16:7) and praises a woman named Junia...an Apostle!!! Yes....female apostles!!!

By virtue of that statement it can be argued (in contradiction to the poster's point) that women should be able to sit on the mormon counsell of 12. I'm not sure what this homicidal hypocrite was saying, other than he never heard teachings directly from Christ (maybe Stephen was able to impart some apostolic first-hand wisdom on old Saul...before he was murdered).

Religion seems to love discrimination almost as much as it loves finding biblical sources to justify its stereotypes, subjugations and unequal treatment of target groups...the mormon church and the Catholic Church are ever guilty of same.

I appreciate your kind post....but I think it's very clear what the poster was encouraging.

Peace

[cdowis]

Oh yeah, I guess I was being unclear. No, our Church doesn't have a policy against birth control. I was simply pointing out that the Catholics have a safety valve that we don't have -- quiet defiance. So long as the person doesn't openly oppose their church, there probably isn't much that the church will do to them.

However, our Church has a powerful stick -- access to the temple. A Mormon who has a problem with, say, obeying the WoW must comply, lie or miss their daughter's wedding.

As a result, I'm not so sure that our Church is more "accommodating to dissenters."

 

At first I was confused by your statement that LDS do not have "quiet defiance" available to them.  Now I understand == you are talking about the "flexibility" (accomodation) in keeping the commandments such as the WOW and entry to the temple.

 

But even in that regard, we ourselves are our own judges on whether we keep those commandments -- such as eating too much meat, overweight, etc.  On honesty, morality, etc.  The final question is whether we consider ourselves worthy to enter the temple.

 

Now I understand your point == an individual who does not consider themselves worthy are unable to enter the temple and it appears that you find that troubling.

[Pahoran]

The cathoilc church is continuing to crack down on a feminist nuns' organization under pope francis. I find that what the catholic church has said to be right on. However, after reading the article I began to think about the lds ordain women movement. Would the lds church be correct in issuing a similiar kind of edict about their radical feminist themes? And if so, what would be the reaction of members of this forum and critics of the lds church?

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/pope-francis-vatican-continue-crackdown-u-s-nuns-article-1.1783576

 

The photos of the nuns may not be apart of the nun's organization. Interestingly, I think that I know one of the nuns in the photos and although this person has left the convent, it was not over feminist issues.

I honestly don't think that what the Catholics do about their internal arrangements has any relevance to us.  And I'm not just saying that because we're the true Church and they're not (even though we are)   but because the whole structure, philosophy and basis of Priesthood authority is so different.

 

After all, we all pretty much agree that the Anglicans (Episcopalians) deciding to ordain women isn't relevant to us, either.

Regards,

Pahoran

[Pahoran]

The Pope who? The vicar of Christ on earth? If you're a mormon you certainly don't believe that assertion...so why quote a delusioned or deceptive old-virgins' position on women?

Porter,

I believe that the universe of religious discourse can be divided into two non-intersecting groups of people.

Group 1 consists of those who suppose that those who believe differently from them are "delusioned or deceptive."

Group 2 consists of those who have any business at all discussing the beliefs of others.

 

It's becoming increasingly clear which group is most likely to contain you.

Regards,

Pahoran

[strappinglad]

Yes porter ,please don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel. I think I have the gist. All religion bad, deceptive, dangerous. All non religion decent, honest, not guilt producing. Life is so much less problematic for the Pol Pots and Chairman Maos of the world when religion has not instilled the idea of sin. Oh , the freedom from hypocrazy (sic).

[Porter_Rockwell]

Porter,

I believe that the universe of religious discourse can be divided into two non-intersecting groups of people.

Group 1 consists of those who suppose that those who believe differently from them are "delusioned or deceptive."

Group 2 consists of those who have any business at all discussing the beliefs of others.

 

It's becoming increasingly clear which group is most likely to contain you.

Regards,

Pahoran

Umm,,,no I'm receptive to all sensible point in between. Refresh me by presenting some facts or sensible arguments into your posts, and you may have my ear. Until then, you may continue to make accusations and ad hominem inferences. Did you just expose yourself against your accusations...? Poor little feller

[Porter_Rockwell]

I honestly don't think that what the Catholics do about their internal arrangements has any relevance to us.  And I'm not just saying that because we're the true Church and they're not (even though we are)   but because the whole structure, philosophy and basis of Priesthood authority is so different.

 

After all, we all pretty much agree that the Anglicans (Episcopalians) deciding to ordain women isn't relevant to us, either.

Regards,

Pahoran

Why is the official doctrine of the Catholic Church and official doctrine of your church then? (the bible...I know you'll ask).

[Pahoran]

Why is the official doctrine of the Catholic Church and official doctrine of your church then? (the bible...I know you'll ask).

 

Care to recast that into recognizable English?  I've got no idea what you are asking.

 

Regards,

Pahoran

[saemo]

I think that the point that the apostle Paul made is still true today. No church can survive with offshoots claiming this or that within the greater body of the church. This was the pope's point. If you believe that a church can survive various offshoots within it, each claiming this or that I think that you would be mistaken. Nothing wrong with feminism per se. However, if it is to pressure the church to change policy or to put pressure on the church, I think that it would be wrong.

Feminism is a dirty word in the LDS church. Boyd K. Packer, indicated that the three biggest dangers to the church are "the gay-lesbian movement, the feminist movement ..., and the ever-present challenge from scholars or intellectuals."

Not surprisingly, the LDS Church strongly opposed the Equal Rights Amendment in the 70s and discriminated against blacks until 1978 (and still against women).

The LDS church has over 100 off shoots, some actually practicing the total gospel of Joe Smith. There are thousands of Christian churches. There are at least 20 major religions in the world.

The Pope who? The vicar of Christ on earth? If you're a mormon you certainly don't believe that assertion...so why quote a delusioned or deceptive old-virgins' position on women? Frankly what would he know about women? This Pope and his church engender and protect criminal pedarist priest; men who's crimes against children are too horrid and vile to post in this forum. Some of those sex offenders are harboured as fugitives in Vatican City....so as to avoid criminal prosecution and would have been present in conclave when this pope was appointed. That's your source of piety or humanistic, intellectual query?

Paul of Tarsus, the first Pope of the Catholic Church and the sociopathic murderer of Christians (or early mormons if you will) is the primary source of logical and rationale appeal? Paul, appears to have been an unmitigated mysoginist who taught women should remain silent in church and subject to their husbands. These are not Christ-like teachings of acceptance.

Paul also extols (Romans 16:7) and praises a woman named Junia...an Apostle!!! Yes....female apostles!!!

By virtue of that statement it can be argued (in contradiction to the poster's point) that women should be able to sit on the mormon counsell of 12. I'm not sure what this homicidal hypocrite was saying, other than he never heard teachings directly from Christ (maybe Stephen was able to impart some apostolic first-hand wisdom on old Saul...before he was murdered).

Religion seems to love discrimination almost as much as it loves finding biblical sources to justify its stereotypes, subjugations and unequal treatment of target groups...the mormon church and the Catholic Church are ever guilty of same.

I appreciate your kind post....but I think it's very clear what the poster was encouraging.

Peace

well, you have your interpretation of things. As a Catholic woman, I don't share your view.

 

Also, I don't see the main issue between the Vatican and LCWR is feminism, but doctrine. Doctrines in Catholicism can't change, some of the leaders in LCWR hold to ideas that have foundational doctrinal impact. Some of it comes across to me as new agey.

[saemo]

And while I disagree with total control, I as a Catholic envy the LDS commitment to their faith, compared to many of my fellow catholics, especially catholic youth, who hardly take it seriously. As a catholic let me shed light on the discussion: I wish the catholic church would adopt the lds behavior on things, mainly that those who dont wanna take the church seriously can leave. I wish the RCC taught religious ed as seriously as our LDS friends do...

I understand the frustration. However, the Catholic Church is the means to salvation, and her mission is to bring people to Christ. Therefore, driving people away is not the answer.