Yirgacheffe Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 What I have been hearing in the ward level lately is "Men and Women are equal, but with different jobs" That is totally acceptable to me. Most non feminist Mormon women say they already have plenty to do and do not want the men's job. It is the only thing that keeps the men from being complete slackers. That's not a very nice thing to say about men.
EllenMaksoud Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 That's not a very nice thing to say about men.See the smile, I was joking. Non Feminist women are reacting to two things. Though there are not very many of them, there are those men who think they are our masters. Hmph ! fat chance. I just don't actually know what Feminist women are after. I just don't undestand it. I think that perhaps 1/4 or 1/3 of the women in our relief society just want men to be the good guys they can be and not hear from the men how superior they are. And then there is the fact that every single woman is expected to marry and have a bunch of children. What if you are a woman where being a Doctor or Physcist is more to you? I know what happens to some of those women. Many just quietly fade away and leave.
Pahoran Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 That's not a very nice thing to say about men. Well, I took it as a joke, but there may be an element of truth in it. Perhaps you've heard the other joke, that you know you're in the Elders' Quorum when the teacher apologises for not having prepared the lesson, and you know you're in Relief Society when the teacher apologises for not having a lace doily on which to place all the visual aids she'll be using for her lesson. Personally, I think that women are far better at networking than men, and are often better organised. I'm affiliated with an all-male sporting body -- all-male in that only men play (in my region) but at the administrative level, it is becoming increasingly matriarchal. I think if women could do all the same things men do in the Church, it wouldn't take long before they were doing it all, and men would -- at first through good manners, then through the expectation created by those good manners, and finally through inertia -- end up surrendering most ecclesiastical functions to women. And I'll tell you something else: I predict that the churches that have already surrendered will ultimately come to regret the feminization of their ecclesiastical structures. And that regret may not be all that far off. Regards,Pahoran
cdowis Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 I've been quite intrigued during my visits to this board how similar some of the beliefs between Catholics and Mormons are. Of course and obviously, there are glaring differences, but we seem to have some similar frames of reference, even including ideas such as modern-day revelation and prophets (using LDS terms that wouldn't make sense to a Catholic, but the ideas behind them are quite similar). It appears that the RCC recognizes that the differences are fundamental, since our baptisms are not recognized as valid, as compared to those in Protestant churches.
why me Posted May 13, 2014 Author Posted May 13, 2014 The LCWR is a canonically approved organization. It is an official arm of the Catholic Church. I don't think you can make direct comparisons between Catholic and LDS church organization, but this would be more like if the Church had issued a statement and apppointed formal oversight to reign in the Relief Society, or maybe even a mission president cracking down on some rogue sister missionaries. This is a far cry from cracking down on a lay organization that has no formal affilitation with the Church.My point was that as people praise the pope's openness, he is still cracking down on the RC's feminists. Of course we cannot compare the two organizations because the structures are different, however, the outcry would be huge if the lds church would do the same to the OW movement. No church can survive divisions within its ranks without a schism or rupture. The OW movement and the LCWR are all about exerting their own will on their respective churches. And the pope clamped down on the RC organization. Should the lds church eventually do the same to the OW movement?
why me Posted May 13, 2014 Author Posted May 13, 2014 He really does take an astonishingly binary view of a complex and nuanced matter. Actually if we were to weigh up the "truths" versus the "untruths" (I reject the term "lie" in this connection) I'd have to say that the Catholic Church has far more truth than untruth. But that seems entirely beyond his grasp. Regards,PahoranThe catholic church has much truth and it still holds on to its truth claims as does the lds church and the catholic apologist are quick to trash other faiths to make their points. They take no prisoners. What the pope said about this nun's organization did not make even a ripple in the media or among the catholic populace. The same would not be said if the lds church clamped down on OW. The critics would be like hungry ants on a carcass. And the liberal wing of the lds membership would be openly disappointed on the web.
MiserereNobis Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 It appears that the RCC recognizes that the differences are fundamental, since our baptisms are not recognized as valid, as compared to those in Protestant churches. Which is why I have been intrigued to find the similarities I have. I have heard LDS folk complain about this before, and I do like to remind them that the LDS consider ALL other baptisms invalid 1
toon Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 My point was that as people praise the pope's openness, he is still cracking down on the RC's feminists. Of course we cannot compare the two organizations because the structures are different, however, the outcry would be huge if the lds church would do the same to the OW movement. No church can survive divisions within its ranks without a schism or rupture. The OW movement and the LCWR are all about exerting their own will on their respective churches. And the pope clamped down on the RC organization. Should the lds church eventually do the same to the OW movement? But the Pope is not "craking down" on RC feminists. He's continuing with his predecessors appointment of an individual to oversee an official RC organization that has been accused of overstepping its bounds. The RC Church has not cracked down on any feminist organizations or movements not formally affiliated with it. They've appointed someone to oversee and make recommendations for an organization that it funds and that it has canonically approved. LCWR and OW are not remotely comparable, and the situations are not comparable. What would be an appropriate and measure approach to an organization and movement not affiliated with the LDS Church? Perhaps having a General Authority address the issues raised by the organization in General Conference. And the fact that the Pope has been praised for his openness doesn't mean that the Churchs efforts with regard to LCWR have gone without criticism. 1
why me Posted May 13, 2014 Author Posted May 13, 2014 The lds church has a different situation. The OW movement is not part of the lds chruch but its members are. And they offer the same challenge as the nun's organization to its structure. That was my point. If a group of lds women begin to claim that women should hold the priesthood, it would be the same if an order of nuns would do so to the catholic church. No church can allow an inside pressure group in its organization without being jeopardized. Thus, the pope puts these nuns in their place. Bult should the lds church do the same to the OW movement in the future?
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