Evidence For Human Evolution (Simple)

[Ahab]

Macro-evolution=micro-evolution over time.

I can't say you don't have any evidence to base that theory on, because you do, but what you don't have is a correct understanding of the evidence.

[Ahab]

If the guy is standing over the victim with the victim's blood on the knife and he is kicking the corpse screaming about how glad he is that he killed the *******.....then probably. This scenario best fits the analogy too.

To use that as an analogy of evidence that humans evolved from some lower order of life you would need to see a guy standing among apes screaming about how glad he is that he isn't one of them anymore.

Oh wow, I think I get it now!

[halconero]

To use that as an analogy of evidence that humans evolved from some lower order of life you would need to see a guy standing among apes screaming about how glad he is that he isn't one of them anymore.

Oh wow, I think I get it now!

 

Evolutionary theory states that humans are still apes.

[thesometimesaint]

I can't say you don't have any evidence to base that theory on, because you do, but what you don't have is a correct understanding of the evidence.

 

Sure that is entirely possible. However science is based on what has been presented so far.

SEE The Principle

[thesometimesaint]

Evolutionary theory states that humans are still apes.

 

We have a common ancestor. There is no other species of Apes that we can interbreed with.

[thesometimesaint]

To use that as an analogy of evidence that humans evolved from some lower order of life you would need to see a guy standing among apes screaming about how glad he is that he isn't one of them anymore.

Oh wow, I think I get it now!

 

Found this fascinating:

[danielwoods]

Another evolution thread?

 

Oh joy.

 

But this one has simple evidence!

[Ahab]

Sure that is entirely possible. However science is based on what has been presented so far.

SEE The Principle

Interesting. I do like watching movies. Looks like it might be a spin-off of the Planet of the Apes.

I didn't realize before that science and science fiction are so closely related, but now that clicks for me too.

[halconero]

We have a common ancestor. There is no other species of Apes that we can interbreed with.

 

Hominoidea is scientific name for the great ape family, of which humans are considered members. You are correct, apes (gorillas, chimps, orangutans, gibbons, and humans) are all considered to have a common ancestor, but cannot interbreed with each other.

[halconero]

Interesting. I do like watching movies. Looks like it might be a spin-off of the Planet of the Apes.

I didn't realize before that science and science fiction are so closely related, but now that clicks for me too.

 

Unrelated anecdote: My professor this semester in my genetics class was the consultant for the new one.

[Ahab]

We have a common ancestor. There is no other species of Apes that we can interbreed with.

I've often wondered what the common ancestor of 2 different species would look like, if there really were one, like for both humans and apes, and I keep coming back to the idea that it would be so much like being both ape and human that we could still refer to it as being both human and ape. And technically that would of course have to be true if it were the origin of both species.

But let's suppose for a moment that it was somehow defined as some other species, like what we might refer to as a bear, because it would be so much luke a bear. Wouldn't that then mean that bears were also humans and apes although not as fully advanced as humans and apes? I mean, it would be our common ancestor, so it would basically be what it later advanced into becoming even though at an earlier stage it hadn't advanced to that point yet.

And then we also need to consider advancing to an even higher level than we're at now, with our belief that we can become like our Father in heaven, and with our belief that our Father passed through the same stages and phases that we have passed through. Which would mean that God, our Father, was not only like us but also was in fact one of us and whatever was the common ancestor of both apes and humans.

[halconero]

I've often wondered what the common ancestor of 2 different species would look like, if there really were one, like for both humans and apes, and I keep coming back to the idea that it would be so much like being both ape and human that we could still refer to it as being both human and ape. And technically that would of course have to be true if it were the origin of both species.

 

Depends on how far back you are. The last common ancestor for chimps and humans, the ape to which we are most closely genetically related to, had subsequent speciations since then. Common consensus suggests that Ardipithecus kadabba, Sahelanthropus tchadensis, or Orrorin tugenensis was probably the chimp, human common ancestor. But since that speciation event, there have been the australopithecines, and the early homos between that ancestor and modern Homo sapiens.  

But let's suppose for a moment that it was somehow defined as some other species, like what we might refer to as a bear, because it would be so much luke a bear. Wouldn't that then mean that bears were also humans and apes although not as fully advanced as humans and apes? I mean, it would be our common ancestor, so it would basically be what it later advanced into becoming even though at an earlier stage it hadn't advanced to that point yet.

 

No. Although evolutionary theory suggests that humans and bears (heck, even trees) have a common ancestor, it would be even further back. The terms "humans" and "apes" are colloquial terms attached to scientific ones that categorize certain derived characteristics. Humans and apes share certain derived characteristics that exclude bears from being included in that term. 

 

And then we also need to consider advancing to an even higher level than we're at now, with our belief that we can become like our Father in heaven, and with our belief that our Father passed through the same stages and phases that we have passed through. Which would mean that God, our Father, was not only like us but also was in fact one of us and whatever was the common ancestor of both apes and humans.

Edited April 25, 2014 by halconero

[halconero]

As for what a chimp and human common ancestor looked like, something like these:

 

http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID18086/images/trimed_human-ancestor(1).jpg

 

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSHcGh5KaBOqb149c6iqStsPs_eG5VG_0UAUtlZ7o5N48eoZeNytA

 

http://staff.tuhsd.k12.az.us/gfoster/standard/homohab.jpg

[The Nehor]

Another evolution thread?

 

Oh joy.

The last one was shut down because Rob was mean. I was of course innocent in every way. We need a new one to keep this train wreck going.

[ERayR]

I've often wondered what the common ancestor of 2 different species would look like, if there really were one, like for both humans and apes, and I keep coming back to the idea that it would be so much like being both ape and human that we could still refer to it as being both human and ape. And technically that would of course have to be true if it were the origin of both species.

But let's suppose for a moment that it was somehow defined as some other species, like what we might refer to as a bear, because it would be so much luke a bear. Wouldn't that then mean that bears were also humans and apes although not as fully advanced as humans and apes? I mean, it would be our common ancestor, so it would basically be what it later advanced into becoming even though at an earlier stage it hadn't advanced to that point yet.

And then we also need to consider advancing to an even higher level than we're at now, with our belief that we can become like our Father in heaven, and with our belief that our Father passed through the same stages and phases that we have passed through. Which would mean that God, our Father, was not only like us but also was in fact one of us and whatever was the common ancestor of both apes and humans.

 

True story:  Years ago I was friends with a man who had a freezer and locker cold storage facility.  He also custom cut and wrapped both domestic animals and wild game.  One time a couple of hunters brought in a bear carcass to hang in his cold storage.  It was the first time and the last time he allowed a bear carcass to hang in his cold storage.  He said that bear carcass looked so much like a human carcass that it creeped him out every time he went into that cold storage room.

[ERayR]

Macro-evolution=micro-evolution over time.

 

What is that old saying? Something like time wounds all heels.

[MormonFreeThinker]

Okay, again, Elder Talmage believed in Death Before the Fall because of the powerful scientific evidence. 

AnswersinGenesis admits that evolution happened in the Family Level 

"It is important to understand that the word kind used in Genesis 1 seems to represent something closer to the “family” level of classification in most instance"

http://blogs.answersingenesis.org/blogs/ken-ham/2012/11/01/how-many-kinds/

 

So Old Earth + micro-Evolution + Death =  Macroevolution 

 

Just like 5280 feet = a mile   

 

All Mormons that have a PhD in Biology believe that Evolution happens, almost all religious biologist believe that Evolution happens. See Catholic Ken Miller present the evidence

 

 

 

 

 

[thesometimesaint]

I've often wondered what the common ancestor of 2 different species would look like, if there really were one, like for both humans and apes, and I keep coming back to the idea that it would be so much like being both ape and human that we could still refer to it as being both human and ape. And technically that would of course have to be true if it were the origin of both species.

But let's suppose for a moment that it was somehow defined as some other species, like what we might refer to as a bear, because it would be so much luke a bear. Wouldn't that then mean that bears were also humans and apes although not as fully advanced as humans and apes? I mean, it would be our common ancestor, so it would basically be what it later advanced into becoming even though at an earlier stage it hadn't advanced to that point yet.

And then we also need to consider advancing to an even higher level than we're at now, with our belief that we can become like our Father in heaven, and with our belief that our Father passed through the same stages and phases that we have passed through. Which would mean that God, our Father, was not only like us but also was in fact one of us and whatever was the common ancestor of both apes and humans.

 

Without getting into deep science a common ancestor is the point at which speciation occurres. Physically they could look very much alike, just not able to interbreed. IE; Because of human caused evolution All house dogs have the common ancestor of the Gray Wolf. They still can interbreed but it is doubtful that they will. It is not really that our common ancestors were part ape and part human, Just that they had physical characteristics of both. They could not interbreed. Once speciation occurred there was no going back. Either one or both could have died out and that would have no influence on evolution.

 

Bears are just too broad of a classification for me to work with. If any population become separated from the parent species. Then that isolated population can only inherit characteristics of that isolated population. Given enough time those inheritances will accumulate to the point where speciation can occur. People were never bears and bears were never people. Humans and bears have a common ancestor. We can not interbreed with bears. That speciation occurred a long time ago.

 

Evolution has nothing to do with advancement. Just what is better able to reproduce under the given environment. Humans aren't particularly well adapted to living in the ocean. But fish do quite well. Are fish more "advanced" than we are?

 

Science can't posit any God or Godlike force and still be science. My personal beliefs about God are standard LDS theology.

[thesometimesaint]

What is that old saying? Something like time wounds all heels.

 

I'm more in favor of the idea that all people rise to the level of their incompetence.

[mfbukowski]

As for what a chimp and human common ancestor looked like, something like these:

http://staff.tuhsd.k12.az.us/gfoster/standard/homohab.jpg

Hey- I've seen that guy on the bus a few times, but he shaved a little better.

[saemo]

Answers in Genesis website claims that Neanderthals are modern humans that descended from Adam, but Elder James E. Talmage did not believe that Neanderthals were modern humans. 

 

Elder James E Talmage wrote, 

"I do not regard Adam as related to -- certainly not as descended from -- the Neanderthal, the Cro-Magnon, the Peking or the Piltdown man" 

http://en.fairmormon.org/Primary_sources/Evolution/Earth_and_Man

 

Elder Talmage also believed in death before the fall, he wrote, "The oldest, that is to say the earliest, rocks thus far identified in land masses reveal the fossilized remains of once living organisms, plant and animal. The coal strata, upon which the world of industry so largely depends, are essentially but highly compressed and chemically changed vegetable substance. The whole series of chalk deposits and many of our deep-sea limestones contain the skeletal remains of animals. These lived and died, age after age, while the earth was yet unfit for human habitation" 

http://en.fairmormon.org/Primary_sources/Evolution/Earth_and_Man

 

Hugh Nibley (was admired by President Hinckley) wrote, "Do not begrudge existence to creatures that looked like men long, long ago, nor deny them a place in God's affection or even a right to exaltation — for our scriptures allow them such. Nor am I overly concerned as to just when they might have lived, for their world is not our world. They have all gone away long before our people ever appeared" 

 

Elder Talmage wrote Earth and Man before we had irrefutable DNA evidence. Microcondial DNA proves that humans and chimps share a common ancestor.

"People of European and Asian descent today retain Neanderthal DNA that may affect their hair, skin, fertility, predisposition to certain diseases and possibly other characteristics, a new study in the journal Nature suggests.

The genetic material inherited from Neanderthals combined with that of humans when the two species interbred 40,000 to 80,000 years ago, the study holds. The research further supports that indigenous Africans possess little or no Neanderthal DNA because their ancestors did not breed with Neanderthals, which lived in Europe and Asia.

It now appears that mating between the two species was much more prevalent than was previously suspected."

http://news.discovery.com/human/evolution/how-neanderthal-dna-changed-humans-140129.htm

[ERayR]

I'm more in favor of the idea that all people rise to the level of their incompetence.

 

That too but your post had to do with evolution and time. 

[mfbukowski]

"People of European and Asian descent today retain Neanderthal DNA that may affect their hair, skin, fertility, predisposition to certain diseases and possibly other characteristics, a new study in the journal Nature suggests.

The genetic material inherited from Neanderthals combined with that of humans when the two species interbred 40,000 to 80,000 years ago, the study holds. The research further supports that indigenous Africans possess little or no Neanderthal DNA because their ancestors did not breed with Neanderthals, which lived in Europe and Asia.

It now appears that mating between the two species was much more prevalent than was previously suspected."

http://news.discovery.com/human/evolution/how-neanderthal-dna-changed-humans-140129.htm

I still want to know if Neanderthals go to limbo or if they were before the fall, or if they are covered by baptism by desire. 

Just messin' wit cha!

[mfbukowski]

I'm more in favor of the idea that all people rise to the level of their incompetence.

Then I should be king of the world!

[Ahab]

Without getting into deep science a common ancestor is the point at which speciation occurres. Physically they could look very much alike, just not able to interbreed. IE; Because of human caused evolution All house dogs have the common ancestor of the Gray Wolf. They still can interbreed but it is doubtful that they will. It is not really that our common ancestors were part ape and part human, Just that they had physical characteristics of both. They could not interbreed. Once speciation occurred there was no going back. Either one or both could have died out and that would have no influence on evolution.

Bears are just too broad of a classification for me to work with. If any population become separated from the parent species. Then that isolated population can only inherit characteristics of that isolated population. Given enough time those inheritances will accumulate to the point where speciation can occur. People were never bears and bears were never people. Humans and bears have a common ancestor. We can not interbreed with bears. That speciation occurred a long time ago.

Evolution has nothing to do with advancement. Just what is better able to reproduce under the given environment. Humans aren't particularly well adapted to living in the ocean. But fish do quite well. Are fish more "advanced" than we are?

Science can't posit any God or Godlike force and still be science. My personal beliefs about God are standard LDS theology.

A point when speciation occurs = a point when a species becomes another species. For example, the common ancestor of apes and humans becoming ape or human, when before that change it was another species.

I understand the theory. I just don't buy into it.