Tacenda Posted April 19, 2014 Posted April 19, 2014 Tacenda stop and gain your composure and think about it for a minute. When the state of Texas and the Baptist rolled in and loaded up women and children they had a chance to defect in mass. I don't remember any of them asking for protection. Instead what I saw was worried parents trying to get their children and get back home. To me this latest move just adds insult to injury. The state of Texas has now found a way to make the group pay for the harassment inflicted on them. Tacenda stop and gain your composure and think about it for a minute. When the state of Texas and the Baptist rolled in and loaded up women and children they had a chance to defect in mass. I don't remember any of them asking for protection. Instead what I saw was worried parents trying to get their children and get back home. To me this latest move just adds insult to injury. The state of Texas has now found a way to make the group pay for the harassment inflicted on them. A little more time on the outside and they would have. They have been taught that those outside of their religion are the enemy. I don't know where your mindset is. I do believe in freedom of religion. But when a crime is made we still look the other way? Texas did it the wrong way, it's apparent, but they did something and it needed to be done. Just as an abused child is taken from a home, until the parent can do their job, or fit enough. And maybe by God's will this needed to take place.
BookofMormonLuvr Posted April 19, 2014 Posted April 19, 2014 Tacenda-Shall I remind you that they found no compelling evidence to keep the YFZ children in custody of Texas Child Protection? All the children were returned to their parents.This gross exaggeration of children cowering in fear and living lives of horror and abuse it blatantly false. Just because they raise their kids different then you doesn't make them evil or bad parents.
ERayR Posted April 19, 2014 Posted April 19, 2014 A little more time on the outside and they would have. They have been taught that those outside of their religion are the enemy. I don't know where your mindset is. I do believe in freedom of religion. But when a crime is made we still look the other way? Texas did it the wrong way, it's apparent, but they did something and it needed to be done. Just as an abused child is taken from a home, until the parent can do their job, or fit enough. And maybe by God's will this needed to take place. Tacenda these women were not cowering wall flowers. They were mothers fighting the mighty behemoth of the government for their children. The only place "a little more time" would have changed anything is in your mind. You have posted elsewhere that you have a daughter married to an undocumented alien. How would you like some government agency swooping in and gathering up your grandchildren because they are obviously in danger in a home headed by obviously lawless adults? Would that be an obvious case of needing to be done? I most assuredly don't think that is the case but it is the same justification you are condoning for the actions against the Texas FLDS.
BookofMormonLuvr Posted April 19, 2014 Posted April 19, 2014 And what do you see that is so great about "the outside" that they would want to flock to it? Addendum: Aside from the polygamy thing, which I don't believe in as a Gospel Principle, and Warren's madness, I would much rather live in a community like they have developed.
bluebell Posted April 19, 2014 Posted April 19, 2014 And what do you see that is so great about "the outside" that they would want to flock to it? Addendum: Aside from the polygamy thing, which I don't believe in as a Gospel Principle, and Warren's madness, I would much rather live in a community like they have developed. Not me. I don't think the government has the right to dictate how they live as long as they are following the laws, but the rules that Warren makes them live by are crazy. No milk or sugar at all. No dancing at all. No bike riding. No swimming (even in a full set of clothes). No mixing between the sexes, not even between boys and girls who are relatives. No t.v., no internet, no newspapers. No education for children past the 8th grade. No music except at church. Must listen to tape recordings of Warren all the time. Young boys tasked with driving around spying on the members to keep them in line. The threat of families being separated and wives given to different husbands if the husbands aren't 'righteous' enough. The threat of children being removed from mothers and mothers being secluded if they aren't 'righteous' enough. Definitely not my kind of lifestyle.
BookofMormonLuvr Posted April 19, 2014 Posted April 19, 2014 Not me. I don't think the government has the right to dictate how they live as long as they are following the laws, but the rules that Warren makes them live by are crazy. No milk or sugar at all. No dancing at all. No bike riding. No swimming (even in a full set of clothes). No mixing between the sexes, not even between boys and girls who are relatives. No t.v., no internet, no newspapers. No education for children past the 8th grade. No music except at church. Must listen to tape recordings of Warren all the time. Young boys tasked with driving around spying on the members to keep them in line. The threat of families being separated and wives given to different husbands if the husbands aren't 'righteous' enough. The threat of children being removed from mothers and mothers being secluded if they aren't 'righteous' enough. Definitely not my kind of lifestyle. Did you read my post before responding?
bluebell Posted April 19, 2014 Posted April 19, 2014 Did you read my post before responding? I did. I don't see any way to separate warren's madness from the community they have developed, since it is his madness which has dictated the kind of community they live in.
Calm Posted April 19, 2014 Author Posted April 19, 2014 Kind of hard to imagine what they would be like now "minus the madness".Perhaps you are thinking back to an earlier leader? Give us a timeperiod and place so we can see what you mean.
BookofMormonLuvr Posted April 19, 2014 Posted April 19, 2014 Kind of hard to imagine what they would be like now "minus the madness".Perhaps you are thinking back to an earlier leader? Give us a timeperiod and place so we can see what you mean.I did in an earlier post positing how I would deal with the community...The times under Rulon, before he got older and Warren took de facto control.Or the time under Leroy Johnson.Heck, look to Bountiful, Canada under Winston Blackmore for inspiration. Or Centennial Park.Their community was a thriving, joyful peaceful community until Warren... It hasn't always been the way it is now.
Tacenda Posted April 19, 2014 Posted April 19, 2014 Tacenda-Shall I remind you that they found no compelling evidence to keep the YFZ children in custody of Texas Child Protection? All the children were returned to their parents.This gross exaggeration of children cowering in fear and living lives of horror and abuse it blatantly false. Just because they raise their kids different then you doesn't make them evil or bad parents.Tacenda these women were not cowering wall flowers. They were mothers fighting the mighty behemoth of the government for their children. The only place "a little more time" would have changed anything is in your mind. You have posted elsewhere that you have a daughter married to an undocumented alien. How would you like some government agency swooping in and gathering up your grandchildren because they are obviously in danger in a home headed by obviously lawless adults? Would that be an obvious case of needing to be done? I most assuredly don't think that is the case but it is the same justification you are condoning for the actions against the Texas FLDS.No, ERayR they aren't cowering wall flowers to their enemies. I've read and watched documentaries where the person, once they are out of the environment, can change. Please watch if it helps: http://holdingouthelp.org/2020-breaking-polygamy-full-episode/ And donate if you think it's a good cause. BTW, you had a good point on whether I'd like the government to swoop down and take my grandchildren away, I wouldn't of course, unless they were abused and if the authorities had their interest in mind and put them in a safe environment until it was safe to go home. But this isn't the best comparison to my daughter's situation. I'll repeat it again, they (Texas) didn't handle it well back then, I'm able to admit that. They only repeated what has been done in the past here in Utah with the raid in Short Creek in the 50's. The public's out cry about separating the children from the parents had the same outcome. But in the Texas instance, there was abuse and it was evil. So something had to be done. They still believe Warren is a prophet and they continued marrying the young girls, it's been proven. Maybe now they have a handle on it. But for a long time they didn't. What do you think helped put Warren in prison? Rebecca Musser, she is a hero. http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/09/17/meet-the-heroic-woman-who-exposed-polygamous-cult-leaders-horrific-secrets-and-helped-send-him-to-jail-for-life/And BookofMormonLuvr , I don't know how they were able to even find the mothers, no one would say whose mother was who. They didn't want anyone to know the young ages of the mothers. I don't know how they could conclude if the children were abused. But the fact that we have these girls married off to older men is enough abuse.But here is something compelling. http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=3207603
ERayR Posted April 19, 2014 Posted April 19, 2014 No, ERayR they aren't cowering wall flowers to their enemies. I've read and watched documentaries where the person, once they are out of the environment, can change. Please watch if it helps: http://holdingouthelp.org/2020-breaking-polygamy-full-episode/ And donate if you think it's a good cause. BTW, you had a good point on whether I'd like the government to swoop down and take my grandchildren away, I wouldn't of course, unless they were abused and if the authorities had their interest in mind and put them in a safe environment until it was safe to go home. But this isn't the best comparison to my daughter's situation.I'll repeat it again, they (Texas) didn't handle it well back then, I'm able to admit that. They only repeated what has been done in the past here in Utah with the raid in Short Creek in the 50's. The public's out cry about separating the children from the parents had the same outcome. But in the Texas instance, there was abuse and it was evil. So something had to be done. They still believe Warren is a prophet and they continued marrying the young girls, it's been proven. Maybe now they have a handle on it. But for a long time they didn't. What do you think helped put Warren in prison? Rebecca Musser, she is a hero. http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/09/17/meet-the-heroic-woman-who-exposed-polygamous-cult-leaders-horrific-secrets-and-helped-send-him-to-jail-for-life/And BookofMormonLuvr , I don't know how they were able to even find the mothers, no one would say whose mother was who. They didn't want anyone to know the young ages of the mothers. I don't know how they could conclude if the children were abused. But the fact that we have these girls married off to older men is enough abuse.But here is something compelling. http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=3207603 Tacenda I do not doubt there are cases of abuse. Abuse is a serious problem in probably every community in the US. It must be addressed and something done but it must not be done at the expense of constitutional rights. If that happens everybody suffers. You can not destroy one persons constitutional rights without destroying everyone's constitutional rights. Addendum: The state of Texas certainly gave them no reason to trust and confide. If it had been done correctly some might have come forth but we will never know.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.