New Mozilla Ceo A "hateful" Anti-Gay?

[rockpond]

Nailed it.

 

Right.  He nailed it.

 

We live in a country where our religious freedoms are protected.  But, in many states & jurisdictions, you can legally be fired just for being gay.

 

So let's follow Storm Rider's logic and go off the deep end where we are comparing Eich's resignation with a beheading and claim it to be the same logic.

[bluebell]

I agree.  And I hope that we can reach a point of equality for our gay & lesbian citizens without as much difficulty & pain as we passed through with the civil rights movement for African-Americans.

 

What is or isn't a right in the U.S. largely depends on what the majority thinks should be rights and what they think shouldn't be.  So, just hope that gay rights stays popular and things should be fine from your perspective.  

[bluebell]

Right.  He nailed it.

 

We live in a country where our religious freedoms are protected.  But, in many states & jurisdictions, you can legally be fired just for being gay.

 

So let's follow Storm Rider's logic and go off the deep end where we are comparing Eich's resignation with a beheading and claim it to be the same logic.

 

It seems like we also live in a country where you can also legally lose your job just for being anti-gay though, right?

[rockpond]

What is or isn't a right in the U.S. largely depends on what the majority thinks should be rights and what they think shouldn't be.  So, just hope that gay rights stays popular and things should be fine from your perspective.  

 

I think history shows that we don't move backwards with respect to civil rights.  So I'm not concerned.  I'm confident that my grandkids will look back and wonder why this was ever a matter of debate.

[rockpond]

It seems like we also live in a country where you can also legally lose your job just for being anti-gay though, right?

 

Depends on what you mean by that.  His religious views are and have been protected.  He worked at Mozilla as CTO for almost 6 years after making that Prop 8 donation.  Then he became CEO and employees/company partners who had been denied the right to legally marry for 5 of those years said "we don't want to work for this person who denied us civil rights".  So he resigned.  We'll never know if he could have stayed and worked through it.  He resigned.  And we don't know what kind of severance package he took with him.

[bluebell]

I think history shows that we don't move backwards with respect to civil rights.  So I'm not concerned.  I'm confident that my grandkids will look back and wonder why this was ever a matter of debate.

 

You might be right, but i'm not convinced.  Societies often have a pendulum swing to them, in regards to what they believe is good and bad.  When the pendulum goes too far one way, it almost always swings back the other direction.

 

A study of history shows that most societies don't travel a constant line towards becoming more respectful of civil rights over time.  I don't think the U.S is going to be any different.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Well he is out now...if we not stop such things, freedom of conscience will be the next head on the chopping block.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I think as long as the most vocal people's definition of 'diversity' and 'tolerance' are "everyone must agree with us and differing beliefs will not be tolerated" then it's going to be hard for people with certain beliefs to be successful in specific fields.

Shame. So much for tolerance.

[california boy]

Well he is out now...if we not stop such things, freedom of conscience will be the next head on the chopping block.

Once again, it was not his freedom of conscience that got the CEO in trouble.  It was his actions to take away the rights of gays to marry.  A big difference.  No one has ever been fired to my knowledge for having a conscience or religious belief.  Those that try to impose their own personal beliefs on others are the ones that are having the problem.  When one starts taking away another American's right to marry, then yes, there will be fall out.  The way to avoid this is to not try and take away someone else's right to marry just because your own personal belief system thinks that is wrong.  

 

Can you name one incident where someone was fired for a personal religious belief who was not trying to force that religious belief on another?  Because I can name you numerous times where a gay person has been fired simply because they are gay, and never tried to force being gay on anyone else.  Yes we still have a ways to go.  It ain't over yet.  Eventually however, I believe religion will realize that those that don't share their beliefs are entitled to their own beliefs and freedoms as well.

[california boy]

It seems like we also live in a country where you can also legally lose your job just for being anti-gay though, right?

Well at least you can be pressured into resigning if you as CEO are anti-gay, as well as anti-Jewish, Anti-black, Anti-Mormon, Anti-Latino etc.  Isn't that a good thing?  Putting social pressure on people in a non-legal way who are bigoted?

[bluebell]

Well at least you can be pressured into resigning if you as CEO are anti-gay, as well as anti-Jewish, Anti-black, Anti-Mormon, Anti-Latino etc.  Isn't that a good thing?  Putting social pressure on people in a non-legal way who are bigoted?

 

First, i completely reject the idea that not supporting SSM is equal to being a racist and bigot.  I have read enough pro-gay and gay supporters who also reject such an argument to be thankful that not everyone is so unreasonable in their opinions as you are.

 

Second, speaking about being anti-gay, or anti mormon, or anti any other kind of belief-it's not a good thing, but a horrible thing, to think that we have the right to dictate first, what people are allowed to believe, and second, that if they don't agree with us they deserve to lose their job.

 

If you honestly believe that being the kind of a person who thinks forcing people to agree with you or firing them is o.k., then you should have no problem with people who believe that supporters of SSM are anti-Christian and deserve to be fired for being such.  It's the opposite side of the exact same coin you are praising.

[Mystery Meat]

Well at least you can be pressured into resigning if you as CEO are anti-gay, as well as anti-Jewish, Anti-black, Anti-Mormon, Anti-Latino etc.  Isn't that a good thing?  Putting social pressure on people in a non-legal way who are bigoted?

 

There are certainly worse things. But the CEO wasn't anti gay. Read the interview done by his gay journalist friend. And like I previously said, the 1st Amendment is meaningless if people are still forced to act, say, and believe certain things or lose jobs and livelihoods. So no, that is not a good thing.

[california boy]

First, i completely reject the idea that not supporting SSM is equal to being a racist and bigot.  I have read enough pro-gay and gay supporters who also reject such an argument to be thankful that not everyone is so unreasonable in their opinions as you are.

 

Second, speaking about being anti-gay, or anti mormon, or anti any other kind of belief-it's not a good thing, but a horrible thing, to think that we have the right to dictate first, what people are allowed to believe, and second, that if they don't agree with us they deserve to lose their job.

 

If you honestly believe that being the kind of a person who thinks forcing people to agree with you or firing them is o.k., then you should have no problem with people who believe that supporters of SSM are anti-Christian and deserve to be fired for being such.  It's the opposite side of the exact same coin you are praising.

I absolutely AGREE with you.  But your post stated.

 

It seems like we also live in a country where you can also legally lose your job just for being anti-gay though, right?

 

 

I am not fine with firing someone who is against gay marriage.  I never said that I was.  But what I am objecting to is people that are saying he was fired for his "freedom of conscience" which he was not.  

 

I agree, someone can be against SSM and not be anti-gay.  I have never made that statement.  Can I be any more clear??

[emarkp]

First they came for the supporters of traditional marriage....

 

I'm glad the left has finally made it clear that it's okay to fire people who don't agree with your politics.  I hope conservative businesses will begin their purges next week.

 

Additionally, I hope the LDS church will fire all employees that support same-sex marriage.

 

Then we can witness what the gay activist thought police inquisitor brownshirts have wrought.

[rockpond]

First they came for the supporters of traditional marriage....

I'm glad the left has finally made it clear that it's okay to fire people who don't agree with your politics. I hope conservative businesses will begin their purges next week.

Additionally, I hope the LDS church will fire all employees that support same-sex marriage.

Then we can witness what the gay activist thought police inquisitor brownshirts have wrought.

Who was fired for not agreeing with someone's politics?

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Once again, it was not his freedom of conscience that got the CEO in trouble.  It was his actions to take away the rights of gays to marry.  A big difference.  No one has ever been fired to my knowledge for having a conscience or religious belief.  Those that try to impose their own personal beliefs on others are the ones that are having the problem.  When one starts taking away another American's right to marry, then yes, there will be fall out.  The way to avoid this is to not try and take away someone else's right to marry just because your own personal belief system thinks that is wrong.  

 

Can you name one incident where someone was fired for a personal religious belief who was not trying to force that religious belief on another?  Because I can name you numerous times where a gay person has been fired simply because they are gay, and never tried to force being gay on anyone else.  Yes we still have a ways to go.  It ain't over yet.  Eventually however, I believe religion will realize that those that don't share their beliefs are entitled to their own beliefs and freedoms as well.

The Bill was for that reason, to set forth the will of the people of California. Freedom of conscience, means that you act upon your convictions with fear of reprisal...well that was the America, I served in the Armed Forces.

[california boy]

First they came for the supporters of traditional marriage....

 

I'm glad the left has finally made it clear that it's okay to fire people who don't agree with your politics.  I hope conservative businesses will begin their purges next week.

 

Additionally, I hope the LDS church will fire all employees that support same-sex marriage.

 

Then we can witness what the gay activist thought police inquisitor brownshirts have wrought.

lol.  Those that you spoke of has been firing people for years simply because they are gay.  What are you talking about?

 

 

Man Fired From LDS Church For Refusing To Give Up Gay Friends

Drew Call's Stake President Would Not Renew Temple Recommend Based On Call's Association With Gay People.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints’ official policy is to accept gay people as members of the church so long as they take what is, in essence, a vow of chastity. But one Salt Lake City man, a church employee for more than a decade, is surprised and angered that he lost his temple recommend—a prerequisite for employment in the church—after he refused to give up his gay friends and was fired.

 

Drew Call, 32, a returned missionary who is gay, was a supervisor in the church’s printing department until March 7 March 4. At a February private meeting with his Salt Lake City stake president—who declined to be interviewed—Call says he was asked to abandon his gay friends as a condition for renewal of his temple recommend. Surprised and fearing people may not believe him, Call surreptitiously made an audio recording of the follow-up meeting in March so there could be no doubt about what happened.

 

 

Carla Hale, gym teacher at Bishop Watterson High School in Columbus, Ohio, until March:In addition to losing her mother in March of this year, high school gym teacher Carla Hale lost her job when administrators at the Catholic school where she worked saw Hale's partner listed among surviving family members of Hale's late mother.

 

Tom Klansnic, principal of North Gresham Elementary School in Gresham, Ore., until April:Tom Klansnic had been the principal of North Gresham Elementary School for 10 years, but when his contract came up for renewal, the district declined to rehire him. Klansnic's supporters contend that the school's decision not to rehire him is related to the principal's divorce from his ex-wife three years ago, after which Klansnic publicly came out as gay, according to TV stationKATU. 

 

Burke Wallace, varsity football coach at Livermore Valley Charter Prep High School in Livermore, Calif., until spring 2013:Burke Wallace filed a lawsuit in November against the Livermore Valley Charter Prep High School, alleging that he was subjected to harassment and discrimination after he casually told colleagues that he was married to a man.

Wallace's attorney, John Furstenthal, said some parents and administrators did not want him to continue coaching the team once they found out about his sexual orientation. According to the lawsuit, filed in Alameda County Superior Court, Wallace's supervisors said it was a "bad idea" to have a gay football coach.

After being fired from the coaching position, Wallace said, he was essentially forced to leave his teaching job at the school due to harassment and stress.

 

 

Ken Bencomo, English teacher at St. Lucy's Priory School in Glendora, Calif., until July: Ken Bencomo taught English at St. Lucy's for 17 years — until July 1, just days after the Supreme Court dismissed California's Proposition 8 on a technicality, returning marriage equality to the Golden State. In its course of reporting on the landmark decision, a local California newspaper ran a front-page article about marriage equality, featuring a photo of Bencomo and his husband.

Despite an outpouring of support by alumni, faculty, and current students, Bencomo swiftly was told by school administrators that his marriage violated the Catholic Church's teachings, so he had to be fired.

 

Kristen Ostendorf, English and religion teacher at Totino-Grace High School in Fridley, Minn., until August: An 18-year teaching veteran at a Catholic high school in Fridley, Minn., was forced outafter she revealed to fellow faculty that she's in a committed relationship with another woman.

 

Tippi McCullough, English teacher at Mount St. Mary's Academy in Little Rock, Ark., until October: Tippi McCullough hadn't even gotten back to her home in Arkansas after a trip to marry her partner in New Mexico when the principal at the school where McCullough worked for 15 years called inform her she didn't have a job to return to.

Michael Griffin, Spanish and French teacher at Holy Ghost Preparatory School in Bensalem, Pa., until December:Michael Griffin taught Spanish and French at an all-boys Catholic high school in Pennsylvania for the past 12 years, until he traveled to neighboring New Jersey and applied for a license to marry his partner of 12 years. The next day, Griffin was informed by the school's headmaster that his impending marriage "contradicts the terms of his teaching contract," according to NBC's Philadelphia affiliate. 

If you need more examples let me know.

[ERayR]

Once again, it was not his freedom of conscience that got the CEO in trouble.  It was his actions to take away the rights of gays to marry.  A big difference. 

 

 

 

I see.  Its alright to have any opinion I want, just don't voice it or support it.  In other words think what you want just keep your STUPID mouth shut and your wallet in your pocket.  Yep, I got that.

[california boy]

The Bill was for that reason, to set forth the will of the people of California. Freedom of conscience, means that you act upon your convictions with fear of reprisal...well that was the America, I served in the Armed Forces.

 

 

free·dom of con·science

noun

 

1. 1.

   the right to follow one's own beliefs in matters of religion and morality.

 

 

 

1.  

Freedom of conscience means that you personally are against SSM so you don't participate in it because of your beliefs and others don't force you to marry a same sex partner.  It doesn't mean imposing your beliefs on others.  Imposing your beliefs on others is an entirely different word.  Tyranny.  Specifically prohibited in our constitution is tyranny of the majority over the minority.  .

[ERayR]

 

 

 

 

1.  

Freedom of conscience means that you personally are against SSM so you don't participate in it because of your beliefs and others don't force you to marry a same sex partner.  It doesn't mean imposing your beliefs on others.  Imposing your beliefs on others is an entirely different word.  Tyranny.  Specifically prohibited in our constitution is tyranny of the majority over the minority.  .

 

 

That one is a two edged sword.  Try reading and looking at it from the other side.  Marriage is a religious sacrament.  Why is the homosexual community so determine to co-opt a religious sacrament?

[california boy]

I see.  Its alright to have any opinion I want, just don't voice it or support it.  In other words think what you want just keep your STUPID mouth shut and your wallet in your pocket.  Yep, I got that.

Never said anything about being prohibited from voicing your opinions did I.  Never said anything about having a different view than others.  In fact, I have challenged this board to find ONE case where a person has been fired, or forced to resign for having their own religious beliefs.  NO ONE HAS COME UP WITH ONE.  Your premise is false.  Yet, I have provided quite a few cases where a person has been fired for their beliefs.  None of them tried to force their beliefs on a single person.

 

Now, actively taking away someone's civil right is an entirely different issue isn't it.  Courts seems to frown on those that take away citizens civil rights.  So do I.  And over time, so does the majority of Americans.  We are seeing this very thing unfold before us once again.

[rockpond]

I see. Its alright to have any opinion I want, just don't voice it or support it. In other words think what you want just keep your STUPID mouth shut and your wallet in your pocket. Yep, I got that.

It's alright to have an opinion. It's alright to voice it. It's alright to financially support legislation to back your opinion. Eich did all those things freely and was constitutionally protected. But he cannot expect those who he spoke out against and acted out against to give him their loyalty and support as a CEO. The employees and partners of Mozilla Foundation are using the same freedom of conscience that Eich used.

Eich had the additional benefit of having his marriage legally protected ... something he helped deny to some of his employees at Mozilla for 5 years.

[california boy]

That one is a two edged sword.  Try reading and looking at it from the other side.  Marriage is a religious sacrament.  Why is the homosexual community so determine to co-opt a religious sacrament?

Fine.  Can you point to ONE case where a gay couple has forced a church in America to perform a religious sacrament?  Maybe you can point to ONE case where some person who is against SSM was forced to marry someone of the same gender?  Tell me what ya got.  What supports your position?

 

Marriage is also a secular practice.  Have you ever heard of a justice of the peace marrying someone? 

[ERayR]

Never said anything about being prohibited from voicing your opinions did I.  Never said anything about having a different view than others.  In fact, I have challenged this board to find ONE case where a person has been fired, or forced to resign for having their own religious beliefs.  NO ONE HAS COME UP WITH ONE.  Your premise is false.  Yet, I have provided quite a few cases where a person has been fired for their beliefs.  None of them tried to force their beliefs on a single person.

 

Now, actively taking away someone's civil right is an entirely different issue isn't it.  Courts seems to frown on those that take away citizens civil rights.  So do I.  And over time, so does the majority of Americans.  We are seeing this very thing unfold before us once again.

 

Unless I am misreading you, you are fine with the persecution of Mr. Brendan Eichs.  Note, I understand its alright to have any opinion I want just don't support it publicly.

[rockpond]

That one is a two edged sword. Try reading and looking at it from the other side. Marriage is a religious sacrament. Why is the homosexual community so determine to co-opt a religious sacrament?

A. It ceased being exclusively a religious sacrament when it became part of state law. Religions don't own the word.

B. Homosexuals are also religious and the first amendment guarantees them the right to marry under their religious beliefs as well. Why is the heterosexual community so determined to co-opt their religious sacrament?