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New Mozilla Ceo A "hateful" Anti-Gay?


Wanderer7

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This story just came out about the new CEO of Mozilla who donated $1,000 dollars to Prop 8. Now LGBT activists are labeling him as hateful and boycotting Mozilla.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/27/mozilla-ceo-prop-8-_n_5042660.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

I'm not sure I read his motives as hateful, but it begs the question. Will being LDS (I don't know if he is LDS, but there is the Prop 8-LDS association) bar people from achieving professional success in the future? Thoughts?

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Depends on what you mean by professional success. If by that you mean a doctor, lawyer, or even the CEO of a certain companies, I think it's doubtful.

 

High profile jobs such as political careers might be hard to swing. Many of the rising generation are increasingly socially liberal and I could see political figures in the future receiving flak for their support of things like proposition 8.

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This story just came out about the new CEO of Mozilla who donated $1,000 dollars to Prop 8. Now LGBT activists are labeling him as hateful and boycotting Mozilla.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/27/mozilla-ceo-prop-8-_n_5042660.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

I'm not sure I read his motives as hateful, but it begs the question. Will being LDS (I don't know if he is LDS, but there is the Prop 8-LDS association) bar people from achieving professional success in the future? Thoughts?

Possibly, to be fair we have had it easy for far too long.

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This story just came out about the new CEO of Mozilla who donated $1,000 dollars to Prop 8. Now LGBT activists are labeling him as hateful and boycotting Mozilla.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/27/mozilla-ceo-prop-8-_n_5042660.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

I'm not sure I read his motives as hateful, but it begs the question. Will being LDS (I don't know if he is LDS, but there is the Prop 8-LDS association) bar people from achieving professional success in the future? Thoughts?

 

Like Halconero, I think it could/has become an obstacle for high profile jobs in certain industries and geographies.  My experience having worked for a long time in the tech industry and in Silicon Valley, many place a high premium on diversity and respect for diversity.

 

As for politics, we will never again have an Oval Office occupant who is against gay marriage.

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This story just came out about the new CEO of Mozilla who donated $1,000 dollars to Prop 8. Now LGBT activists are labeling him as hateful and boycotting Mozilla.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/27/mozilla-ceo-prop-8-_n_5042660.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

I'm not sure I read his motives as hateful, but it begs the question. Will being LDS (I don't know if he is LDS, but there is the Prop 8-LDS association) bar people from achieving professional success in the future? Thoughts?

 

I think as long as the most vocal people's definition of 'diversity' and 'tolerance' are "everyone must agree with us and differing beliefs will not be tolerated" then it's going to be hard for people with certain beliefs to be successful in specific fields.

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As an example, I wonder about people's fear that LDS doctors may refuse service to people of same gender tendencies. Are fears like this possible? Justified?

I don't know, but I'll Google it on Mozilla.

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Like Halconero, I think it could/has become an obstacle for high profile jobs in certain industries and geographies.  My experience having worked for a long time in the tech industry and in Silicon Valley, many place a high premium on diversity and respect for diversity.

 

 

Wrong again. Silicon Valley places a premium on people having the right politically correct beliefs. Real diversity is not tolerated or appreciated. For instance, SV is a very family unfriendly place. It's also very unfriendly to those with traditional religious beliefs. The arrogance that is readily evident in so many SV companies makes the claim that they have any regard for real values ludicrous.

 

You're not the only one with a tech background on this board.

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As an example, I wonder about people's fear that LDS doctors may refuse service to people of same gender tendencies. Are fears like this possible? Justified?

I certainly would not have a doctor that was homophobic no matter what religion he was.  There are things I want to be able to talk to my doctor about that I want scientific information about not religious prejudice.  I would have to have some assurance from an LDS doctor that he wasn't prejudice against gay people before I would choose him.  I personally know too many LDS that are prejudice against gays to assume that an LDS doctor would have no such prejudice despite what the church teachings on the subject is.

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Wrong again. Silicon Valley places a premium on people having the right politically correct beliefs. Real diversity is not tolerated or appreciated. For instance, SV is a very family unfriendly place. It's also very unfriendly to those with traditional religious beliefs. The arrogance that is readily evident in so many SV companies makes the claim that they have any regard for real values ludicrous.

 

You're not the only one with a tech background on this board.

Nonsense.  I live near Silicon Valley and know a lot of people that work in that industry.  Most of my career was working with High Tech companies.  Some of my clients include Apple, Sun Microsystems, Oracle PeopleSoft, Ascend, Lucent Technologies etc.

 

If you want to make such a claim, CFR anything that shows such policies exist.  This is the typical "religious persecution" claim that has become so triendy, with no actual facts to back up such claims.

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Nonsense.  I live near Silicon Valley and know a lot of people that work in that industry.  Most of my career was working with High Tech companies.  Some of my clients include Apple, Sun Microsystems, Oracle PeopleSoft, Ascend, Lucent Technologies etc.

 

If you want to make such a claim, CFR anything that shows such policies exist.  This is the typical "religious persecution" claim that has become so triendy, with no actual facts to back up such claims.

 

Policies don't need to exist. The PC attitudes prevalent there simply tend to filter out those with different values. There's a reason software developers like myself, who have families and a life outside of their company aren't marketable in SV. They pay young developers well into 6 figures, provide them with lots of perks and activities at work, and expect them to dedicate their lives to the company. You're expected to put the tech company first in your life, and nothing - repeat, nothing - is to take precedence over that.

 

That's why they're so family and religion unfriendly. For instance, Google's culture caters to young, unmarried individuals. You're expected to live, breath and eat Google in order to succeed there.

 

SV high tech is a form of idolatry in every sense of the word. To claim, as you do, that such things don't exist is simply false.

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This story just came out about the new CEO of Mozilla who donated $1,000 dollars to Prop 8. Now LGBT activists are labeling him as hateful and boycotting Mozilla.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/27/mozilla-ceo-prop-8-_n_5042660.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

I'm not sure I read his motives as hateful, but it begs the question. Will being LDS (I don't know if he is LDS, but there is the Prop 8-LDS association) bar people from achieving professional success in the future? Thoughts?

 

There were a number of articles out there on this issue, and I read them with some interest as they were an indication of the entrenched intolerance that exists in Silicon Valley. I even took some time to wade through the usual flame wars of comments after the articles to get a sense of the rationalizations people were using. Many of the SSM supporters who commented had bought into The Big Lie that if you oppose SSM, you are anti-gay and a hateful, intolerant bigot. Hence, it is "valid" to demonize you, to drive you out of your job, and to punish you in any way possible.

 

The lesson with what's happening to Brendan Eich is one which members of the church need to take note of. Just by being a member of the church, it will be valid to brand you as a hateful, intolerant bigot. The culture of Silicon Valley and how it doesn't really relate well to the values espoused in Mormonism is well worth studying as an indication of where things could be headed. The disenfranchisement of Mormons in the 19th century over polygamy sets a precedent that could well be repeated today if the thought control culture of Silicon Valley is any indication of what can happen.

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Wrong again. Silicon Valley places a premium on people having the right politically correct beliefs. Real diversity is not tolerated or appreciated. For instance, SV is a very family unfriendly place. It's also very unfriendly to those with traditional religious beliefs. The arrogance that is readily evident in so many SV companies makes the claim that they have any regard for real values ludicrous.

You're not the only one with a tech background on this board.

My employer, one of the largest in SV gave us all unlimited personal leave. I never had to miss one of my kids' events. And I was able to stay with my wife and newborn in the hospital without using vacation time. They also gave me a ridiculously good health care plan for my family.

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I certainly would not have a doctor that was homophobic no matter what religion he was.  There are things I want to be able to talk to my doctor about that I want scientific information about not religious prejudice.  I would have to have some assurance from an LDS doctor that he wasn't prejudice against gay people before I would choose him.  I personally know too many LDS that are prejudice against gays to assume that an LDS doctor would have no such prejudice despite what the church teachings on the subject is.

I fail to understand your logic on how religious prejudice means a doctor can't give reliable scientific information or affects a doctor's abilities, or any other professional's abilities for that matter. Your last sentence seems prejudiced in its own right. Could you explain what you meant by that?

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Like Halconero, I think it could/has become an obstacle for high profile jobs in certain industries and geographies.  My experience having worked for a long time in the tech industry and in Silicon Valley, many place a high premium on diversity and respect for diversity.

 

As for politics, we will never again have an Oval Office occupant who is against gay marriage.

 

There does seem to be this committment in several areas.  They are adamantly supportive of diversity as long as the diversification thinks exactly like they do. No room for competing thoughts, ideas, or way of doing things. It is their way or the highway.  Yup, gotta love this kind of diversity.  We get to stand up proud because we are the enlightened ones and we can stamp out all those who oppose us.  Yup, no logical conflicts here. 

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There does seem to be this committment in several areas. They are adamantly supportive of diversity as long as the diversification thinks exactly like they do. No room for competing thoughts, ideas, or way of doing things. It is their way or the highway. Yup, gotta love this kind of diversity. We get to stand up proud because we are the enlightened ones and we can stamp out all those who oppose us. Yup, no logical conflicts here.

What you are describing was not my experience while living in Silicon Valley and while working for a Silicon Valley based tech company for over ten years. What experiences did you have while there to make you feel that way?

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Policies don't need to exist. The PC attitudes prevalent there simply tend to filter out those with different values. There's a reason software developers like myself, who have families and a life outside of their company aren't marketable in SV. They pay young developers well into 6 figures, provide them with lots of perks and activities at work, and expect them to dedicate their lives to the company. You're expected to put the tech company first in your life, and nothing - repeat, nothing - is to take precedence over that.

 

That's why they're so family and religion unfriendly. For instance, Google's culture caters to young, unmarried individuals. You're expected to live, breath and eat Google in order to succeed there.

 

SV high tech is a form of idolatry in every sense of the word. To claim, as you do, that such things don't exist is simply false.

 

Just what I thought.  You got nothing.  Yes these companies ask a lot from their employees, but NOTHING precludes someone from having a family.  There are a huge significant number of independent contractors working for these companies who provide services, often working from home and have completely flexible hours to work under.  There are also independent companies providing services to these high tech companies that do not demand the kind of hours that a HANDFUL of the high tech companies you call out.  I also know at least 10 families in my old ward that worked in the high tech industry.  Some of them had started businesses that were later bought up by companies such as Oracle.  They continued to run those divisions.  No one asked them to abandon their families and religion in order to work for the company.  Like I said nonsense.  You can not answer the CFR because no such policy exists.  

 

AND you have provided NOTHING to the religious victim claim.  How does demanding a lot from employees all the sudden become anti religious.  You are only perpetuating this crying wolf that seems to happen when it comes to religion.  No such conspiracy exists.  

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I fail to understand your logic on how religious prejudice means a doctor can't give reliable scientific information or affects a doctor's abilities, or any other professional's abilities for that matter. Your last sentence seems prejudiced in its own right. Could you explain what you meant by that?

 

Sure.  I was active in the same ward for over 20 years.  I thought I had friends that cared about me.  When I came out, I only heard from about 3 of them.  My own family has not invited me to any family events including birthdays, family reunions, missionary farewells, baptisms etc.  While the church tells the members to fellowship and love those that are gay, sometimes the translation of that into real life just doesn't take place.  If you are gay and not celibate, then you are not worthy of their love.  Yeah I get it.  Family and friends have conditions.  If you don't meet their expectations, then you are not a part of their life.  I know a lot of ex Mormons who are gay.  My story is not unique.  Some Mormons don't deal with gay family members very well.  Oddly enough there is one family in our ward who has a gay son.  They welcome their son and his boyfriend into their family and love them both without some kind of condition.  It can happen.  The father is a regional rep.  A wonderful guy.  It is just my experience that it doesn't happen very often.  If others have had a better experience, then good for them.

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Sure.  I was active in the same ward for over 20 years.  I thought I had friends that cared about me.  When I came out, I only heard from about 3 of them.  My own family has not invited me to any family events including birthdays, family reunions, missionary farewells, baptisms etc.  While the church tells the members to fellowship and love those that are gay, sometimes the translation of that into real life just doesn't take place.  If you are gay and not celibate, then you are not worthy of their love.  Yeah I get it.  Family and friends have conditions.  If you don't meet their expectations, then you are not a part of their life.  I know a lot of ex Mormons who are gay.  My story is not unique.  Some Mormons don't deal with gay family members very well.  Oddly enough there is one family in our ward who has a gay son.  They welcome their son and his boyfriend into their family and love them both without some kind of condition.  It can happen.  The father is a regional rep.  A wonderful guy.  It is just my experience that it doesn't happen very often.  If others have had a better experience, then good for them.

 

It is not easy when one does not feel welcome; however, when a family event is happening you should be there; there is no need for an invite.  It is obvious that many faithful people just don't know how to handle the complexities of a gay relationship. In the extended family situation it can be easier to handle. Everyone there knows you are a member of the family. Everyone knows you belong so it is harder, not impossible, but harder to exclude or to insult. 

 

The fact that you show up demonstrates your interest and commitment to the family. The fact that you, like every other person at the reunion, is a sinner is irrelevant.  It always takes two to have a conflict and one side is seldom the problem 100% of the time. Hurt feelings cause us to act in ways that tell the other we don't care; it is not that we don't care, but that our feelings are hurt. We have to decide what is most important.  Family, even the ornery ones, are still great to have around even if only for reunions. 

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I certainly would not have a doctor that was homophobic no matter what religion he was.  There are things I want to be able to talk to my doctor about that I want scientific information about not religious prejudice.  I would have to have some assurance from an LDS doctor that he wasn't prejudice against gay people before I would choose him.  I personally know too many LDS that are prejudice against gays to assume that an LDS doctor would have no such prejudice despite what the church teachings on the subject is.

 

I don't know about MD's, but a Social Worker that discriminated on the basis of sexual orientation would find his license to practice in jeopardy. 

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My employer, one of the largest in SV gave us all unlimited personal leave. I never had to miss one of my kids' events. And I was able to stay with my wife and newborn in the hospital without using vacation time. They also gave me a ridiculously good health care plan for my family.

 

And that is the exception rather than the rule, especially in the SV software developer culture that caters to young, unmarried work-all-the-time types where the right attitudes and PC "values" are required in order to fit in.

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Just what I thought.  You got nothing.  Yes these companies ask a lot from their employees, but NOTHING precludes someone from having a family.  There are a huge significant number of independent contractors working for these companies who provide services, often working from home and have completely flexible hours to work under.  There are also independent companies providing services to these high tech companies that do not demand the kind of hours that a HANDFUL of the high tech companies you call out.  I also know at least 10 families in my old ward that worked in the high tech industry.  Some of them had started businesses that were later bought up by companies such as Oracle.  They continued to run those divisions.  No one asked them to abandon their families and religion in order to work for the company.  Like I said nonsense.  You can not answer the CFR because no such policy exists.  

 

AND you have provided NOTHING to the religious victim claim.  How does demanding a lot from employees all the sudden become anti religious.  You are only perpetuating this crying wolf that seems to happen when it comes to religion.  No such conspiracy exists.  

 

I was specific that there were no policies; it's simply the culture that filters things out. Yet you, as usual, continue to put your own strawman spin on things in order to shoot it down.

 

It doesn't matter what evidence I provide, you're going to dismiss it. That's the way you work with things that don't fit your alternate-reality worldview. Being someone who keeps close tabs on what software developers in SV (and elsewhere) think and say, it is clearly evident that there is a culture of PC attitudes that breeds what amounts to intolerance for anyone who doesn't fit the "mold". Read the comments on the Huffpost article. Maybe if you try to have an open mind, you'll get the picture.

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