Mormon Monasticism, Communes, And Religious Orders

[MiserereNobis]

Hello LDS friends,

 

I was thinking about monasticism and how it might work in the LDS church.  It seems to me that the traditional idea of a monastery (or a convent) wouldn't work, because monks and nuns take vows of celibacy, and that seems to run quite counter to LDS theology.  But... what about the creation of a community whose intent was to live the spiritual life of the LDS church as fully as possible?  That would, of course, include families, so it would be more like a commune than a monastery, but it could have many of the same practicalities.  Everyone living in unison with all property held in community (United Order style, yes?).  Communal worship multiple times a day, such as prayer, song, readings, and a sacrament meeting (is there any proscription against having a sacrament meeting every day?)  Being economically self-sustainable.  Austerity and penance.  A total focus on God while minimizing the distractions of the world.

 

I wonder if the early LDS church, with its focus on gathering together in one spot, planning communities, etc, could be a blueprint.

 

Is there anything in LDS doctrine or practice that would frown upon a group of people attempting such an LDS commune?  I can see it perhaps going against the cultural grain, but from my limited understanding it does seem to have some sort of precedent in the history of the church.

 

Finally, it also occurs to me that going on a mission is probably similar to joining a religious order.  Obedience, celibacy, poverty, separation from the world, a continual focus on the things of God.  Are there other roles in the LDS church that would be similar to a religious order?

 

To sum up, if someone felt called to a life set apart, a life of spirit and prayer and community (such as offered in monasteries and religious orders), is there a place for such things in the LDS church?

 

Thanks!

Edited March 11, 2014 by MiserereNobis

[The Nehor]

Those communes you talked about are in our future but they will not be monastic as such. We tried and failed. One day we will try again. Maybe later tonight when I get off of work I can describe how I see it working now (as opposed to the past) and offend most of the board.

Missionary work has some of the elements you want but it is definitely not removal from the world. If anything it taught me how sheltered I actually was.

[MiserereNobis]

Missionary work has some of the elements you want but it is definitely not removal from the world. If anything it taught me how sheltered I actually was.

 

What I meant by "separation from the world" is more like a separation or removal from worldly values.  For example, the Franciscan religious order is (if it operating properly) most definitely fully engaged in the world, as far as being right in people's lives (the poor, the outcast) and helping them.  It is not cloistered.  Yet, I would still say that they are separated from the world in the sense that they are not out trying to make money, get new cars, spend all Sunday watching football, etc.  I assume a Mormon mission is similar in that regard, that it is in the middle of the world (proselytizing) yet removed/separated from worldly values?

[The Nehor]

What I meant by "separation from the world" is more like a separation or removal from worldly values.  For example, the Franciscan religious order is (if it operating properly) most definitely fully engaged in the world, as far as being right in people's lives (the poor, the outcast) and helping them.  It is not cloistered.  Yet, I would still say that they are separated from the world in the sense that they are not out trying to make money, get new cars, spend all Sunday watching football, etc.  I assume a Mormon mission is similar in that regard, that it is in the middle of the world (proselytizing) yet removed/separated from worldly values?

Ideally but of course with young kids out there you have varying degrees of success.

[mfbukowski]

Hello LDS friends,

 

I was thinking about monasticism and how it might work in the LDS church.  It seems to me that the traditional idea of a monastery (or a convent) wouldn't work, because monks and nuns take vows of celibacy, and that seems to run quite counter to LDS theology.  But... what about the creation of a community whose intent was to live the spiritual life of the LDS church as fully as possible?  That would, of course, include families, so it would be more like a commune than a monastery, but it could have many of the same practicalities.  Everyone living in unison with all property held in community (United Order style, yes?).  Communal worship multiple times a day, such as prayer, song, readings, and a sacrament meeting (is there any proscription against having a sacrament meeting every day?)  Being economically self-sustainable.  Austerity and penance.  A total focus on God while minimizing the distractions of the world.

 

I wonder if the early LDS church, with its focus on gathering together in one spot, planning communities, etc, could be a blueprint.

 

Is there anything in LDS doctrine or practice that would frown upon a group of people attempting such an LDS commune?  I can see it perhaps going against the cultural grain, but from my limited understanding it does seem to have some sort of precedent in the history of the church.

 

Finally, it also occurs to me that going on a mission is probably similar to joining a religious order.  Obedience, celibacy, poverty, separation from the world, a continual focus on the things of God.  Are there other roles in the LDS church that would be similar to a religious order?

 

To sum up, if someone felt called to a life set apart, a life of spirit and prayer and community (such as offered in monasteries and religious orders), is there a place for such things in the LDS church?

 

Thanks!

Well I appreciate the sentiment but that would not work.  I would probably even enjoy something like that, but it is very NON- LDS.

 

We are even cautioned against "study groups" and "gospel hobbies" which are an over-zealous dedication to a single principle of the gospel, like perhaps the Word of Wisdom.

 

If one wanted to for example, one could become obsessed with eating the "right" things and condemning others who did not, or who interpreted the scriptures differently. One might see all doctrine in terms of the WOW- that Eve fell because of a violation, that food addictions are the ultimate evil, that caffeine in any form is a diabolical plot etc.

 

The idea is moderation and not getting "carried away with" any one principle.

 

We are not to put ourselves "above" others.  We all dress the same in the temple- and remove jewelery etc-  as an indication that we are all the same before God, and so that we do not become prideful about "status"

 

We are to remain in the world and not isolate ourselves from it in small groups.  The energy put into creating a commune for instance, would be better spent in trying to upgrade the community at large, or I am sure that would be the counsel.

 

The concern is that we have offshoots everywhere where people have become obsessed with one type of life style or other- polygamist groups are one example.  Our very open canon and the vagueness of defined doctrine is a two-edged sword- on one hand it gives us a lot of freedom in beliefs, but on the other hand it makes it possible to go off the deep end and develop cult-like behavior when one doctrine is stressed to the exclusion of others.

 

So the bottom line is that would be frowned upon.

 

The key is to be IN THE WORLD but not of the world.  If you are in a monastery or living a similar lifestyle you are not "in the world".

Edited March 11, 2014 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

 I assume a Mormon mission is similar in that regard, that it is in the middle of the world (proselytizing) yet removed/separated from worldly values?

Not really.  They still receive an allowance and do not live communally.  They still need to figure out where to eat and how to pay for it, how to spend their time, when to wake up, and what to do all day.

 

They are very much IN the world- they just do church work 24-7 as opposed to work or school or playing with the Grandkids.

 

Perhaps you could think of Mormon missionaries as all Diocesan priests as opposed to a Monastic order.

Edited March 11, 2014 by mfbukowski

[Storm Rider]

Nobis, what you have described is what we would call Zion; where we become of one mind and one heart.  I believe that each believer in Christ has a degree of separation from the world. That separation grows the more one progresses on a path of holiness and obedience. 

 

In the early period of the latter days the LDS people were commanded to live the United Order, but failed at it on many levels.  They demonstrated that they were not ready to sacrifice all they had for the good of others.  We believe that we will one day be more prepared to be obedient enough to live the UO again.

 

I think in many ways LDS families are the closest thing we have to religious orders; obviously I am being flexible with the term. In addition, I would acknowledge that Catholic families follow in the same path that LDS families walk.  We commit to pray together often, read scriptures and teach its truths, we function for the good of each member to enable each family member to find their gifts and magnify them.  Our families are the first teachers and examples of discipleship.  

 

Celibacy, as a practice for the average individual in the Church, is not a viable option. Here is another similarity between our faiths; we each believe that we should be fruitful and multiply. Some magnify this call and some of us are prevented for one reason or another from producing offspring. I believe that it is our heart and willingness to follow, be obedient, that is of greatest value.  The fact that we actually have children is secondary.

[Coreyb]

Hello LDS friends,

 

I was thinking about monasticism and how it might work in the LDS church.  It seems to me that the traditional idea of a monastery (or a convent) wouldn't work, because monks and nuns take vows of celibacy, and that seems to run quite counter to LDS theology.  But... what about the creation of a community whose intent was to live the spiritual life of the LDS church as fully as possible?  That would, of course, include families, so it would be more like a commune than a monastery, but it could have many of the same practicalities.  Everyone living in unison with all property held in community (United Order style, yes?).  Communal worship multiple times a day, such as prayer, song, readings, and a sacrament meeting (is there any proscription against having a sacrament meeting every day?)  Being economically self-sustainable.  Austerity and penance.  A total focus on God while minimizing the distractions of the world.

 

I wonder if the early LDS church, with its focus on gathering together in one spot, planning communities, etc, could be a blueprint.

 

Is there anything in LDS doctrine or practice that would frown upon a group of people attempting such an LDS commune?  I can see it perhaps going against the cultural grain, but from my limited understanding it does seem to have some sort of precedent in the history of the church.

 

Finally, it also occurs to me that going on a mission is probably similar to joining a religious order.  Obedience, celibacy, poverty, separation from the world, a continual focus on the things of God.  Are there other roles in the LDS church that would be similar to a religious order?

 

To sum up, if someone felt called to a life set apart, a life of spirit and prayer and community (such as offered in monasteries and religious orders), is there a place for such things in the LDS church?

 

Thanks!

It sounds like a great idea, but I feel like if this sort of order started in Mormonism it would soon become polygamist and everyone would get excommunicated.

[thesometimesaint]

Hello LDS friends,

 

I was thinking about monasticism and how it might work in the LDS church.  It seems to me that the traditional idea of a monastery (or a convent) wouldn't work, because monks and nuns take vows of celibacy, and that seems to run quite counter to LDS theology.  But... what about the creation of a community whose intent was to live the spiritual life of the LDS church as fully as possible?  That would, of course, include families, so it would be more like a commune than a monastery, but it could have many of the same practicalities.  Everyone living in unison with all property held in community (United Order style, yes?).  Communal worship multiple times a day, such as prayer, song, readings, and a sacrament meeting (is there any proscription against having a sacrament meeting every day?)  Being economically self-sustainable.  Austerity and penance.  A total focus on God while minimizing the distractions of the world.

 

I wonder if the early LDS church, with its focus on gathering together in one spot, planning communities, etc, could be a blueprint.

 

Is there anything in LDS doctrine or practice that would frown upon a group of people attempting such an LDS commune?  I can see it perhaps going against the cultural grain, but from my limited understanding it does seem to have some sort of precedent in the history of the church.

 

Finally, it also occurs to me that going on a mission is probably similar to joining a religious order.  Obedience, celibacy, poverty, separation from the world, a continual focus on the things of God.  Are there other roles in the LDS church that would be similar to a religious order?

 

To sum up, if someone felt called to a life set apart, a life of spirit and prayer and community (such as offered in monasteries and religious orders), is there a place for such things in the LDS church?

 

Thanks!

 

We are to in the world but not of the world.