Book Of Mormon And Politics

[cdowis]

In all the years of participating in apologetics, in this form and others, I have yet to see this issue addressed. 

 

I see that politics were engrained in the fabric of the text, both explicit and implict. 

 

Now let's stay away from current events, but I would like to discuss what insights you may have on the politics in the BOM.  I will give some of my own ideas later. I read, for example, an interesting article on the integration of the Nephites and Mulekites, and the politics of the kingmen.

[why me]

In all the years of participating in apologetics, in this form and others, I have yet to see this issue addressed. 

 

I see that politics were engrained in the fabric of the text, both explicit and implict. 

 

Now let's stay away from current events, but I would like to discuss what insights you may have on the politics in the BOM.  I will give some of my own ideas later. I read, for example, an interesting article on the integration of the Nephites and Mulekites, and the politics of the kingmen.

The politics can be found in King Benjamin and in other areas of the text between judges and kings. Mainly seen in righteousness and corruption. However, politics centered on the ideals of righteous governance and the benefits of such a government is central to the text. In a sense it created a vision for people who wish to engage in the political arena. What to do and what to avoid. Politics should not be about contention because contention is from the devil is also another theme. Something that the current system could learn from. Also, politics is about people and how to rule people. I think that the book of mormons stresses this too. Difficult to stay away from current events since the book of mormon is a teaching tool for what could be and should be. General authorities have given guidence on how to use the book of mormon's politics for today.

 

From the link below:

 

President George Albert Smith observed, “There is nothing in the world more deleterious or harmful to the human family than hatred, prejudice, suspicion, and the attitude that some people have toward their fellows, of unkindness.”¹⁶ In matters of politics, he warned, “Whenever your politics cause you to speak unkindly of your brethren, know this, that you are upon dangerous ground.”¹⁷

 

http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2006/04/instruments-of-the-lords-peace?lang=eng&query=politics+and+the+book+of+mormon

 

The above link gives a great guide for those who wish to enter politics.

Edited January 10, 2014 by why me

[BookofMormonLuvr]

I believe the policitcal narrative found within the Book of Mormon leaves allowances for a number of political ideologies.

Example: I believe the Book of Mormon allows for one to be in favor of justified war, but also allows for conscientious objection.

[thesometimesaint]

I believe the policitcal narrative found within the Book of Mormon leaves allowances for a number of political ideologies.

Example: I believe the Book of Mormon allows for one to be in favor of justified war, but also allows for conscientious objection.

 

Agreed.

[why me]

I believe the policitcal narrative found within the Book of Mormon leaves allowances for a number of political ideologies.

Example: I believe the Book of Mormon allows for one to be in favor of justified war, but also allows for conscientious objection.

The key is to form an ideology from the book of mormon narrative which would be the key to understanding what exactly is righteous politics.

[Vance]

Also, politics is about people and how to rule people.

So, by nature it is going to cause contention. A person or group attempting to rule over another person or group is ALWAYS going to cause contention.

What the Book of Mormon clearly demonstrates is that righteous leaders promote individual liberty and wicked leaders promote bondage and servitude.

Nothing has changed.

[Brant Gardner]

During Book of Mormon times (and not limited to the Book of Mormon's location) there wasn't any reasonable separation between politics and religion. Pretty much everything in the Book of Mormon touches concepts of what we would call politics, beginning with Nephi's justification of his right to rule in spite of not being an eldest son. Politics become very complex (as does religion and social interrelationships) after the Nephites arrive in Zarahemla.

[why me]

So, by nature it is going to cause contention. A person or group attempting to rule over another person or group is ALWAYS going to cause contention.

What the Book of Mormon clearly demonstrates is that righteous leaders promote individual liberty and wicked leaders promote bondage and servitude.

Nothing has changed.

I think that you will need to read the link that I provided.

 

Liberty has the same problem as the word democracy. It has too many different meanings for people.  What is liberty? What is democracy? When we formulate the ideal ideology that the book of mormon promotes, the discussion will begin to take shape and form.

Edited January 10, 2014 by why me

[BookofMormonLuvr]

I think the ideal man-led government that can be extracted from the Book of Mormon is basically this...

Teach them moral principles and let them govern themselves. When their actions harm the person or assests of others punish them according to the law.

Liberty with restraint.

[Freedom]

The Nephite political system was very fragile. Alma resigned as chief judge in an effort to stem the tide of apostasy which was tearing his nation apart. This is because the religion and the goverment were one and the same. There was limited separation of church and state, it was not a democracy, and kings were only considered bad if the king was bad. Otherwise they were considered a great idea. 

 

The lesson to me is the type of government is not what matters, it is the type of person that matters. Every time I hear someone calling to talk radio complaining that the country is going to hell in a hand basket I have to ask - if Canada/U.S./Great Brittain ect is going to hell in a hand basket, where is Mexico, Turkey, Russia, Georgia and Albania going and how are they getting there? Stop complaining and get involved in the process. 

[BookofMormonLuvr]

I believe that because Canada/US/Great Britiain are primary gathering spots for Ephraim, their lack of obedience to moral law will bring down a harsher rebuke from JAH than other countries without the same knowledge/responsibilties.

[why me]

The Nephite political system was very fragile. Alma resigned as chief judge in an effort to stem the tide of apostasy which was tearing his nation apart. This is because the religion and the goverment were one and the same. There was limited separation of church and state, it was not a democracy, and kings were only considered bad if the king was bad. Otherwise they were considered a great idea. 

 

The lesson to me is the type of government is not what matters, it is the type of person that matters. Every time I hear someone calling to talk radio complaining that the country is going to hell in a hand basket I have to ask - if Canada/U.S./Great Brittain ect is going to hell in a hand basket, where is Mexico, Turkey, Russia, Georgia and Albania going and how are they getting there? Stop complaining and get involved in the process. 

I am afraid that we need to leave canada out of it. However we can talk about anglo-saxon capitalism centered in the US and In Great Britain. It is this capitalism that is dominating the world system, converting countries like yours to the anglosaxon model.

[Freedom]

I am afraid that we need to leave canada out of it. However we can talk about anglo-saxon capitalism centered in the US and In Great Britain. It is this capitalism that is dominating the world system, converting countries like yours to the anglosaxon model.

uh. what?

[Calm]

I am afraid that we need to leave canada out of it. However we can talk about anglo-saxon capitalism centered in the US and In Great Britain. It is this capitalism that is dominating the world system, converting countries like yours to the anglosaxon model.

Got to say huh? Here as well.

Plus this appears to be off topic from the op description of what is to be discussed.

[Vance]

I think that you will need to read the link that I provided.

 

Liberty has the same problem as the word democracy. It has too many different meanings for people.  What is liberty? What is democracy? When we formulate the ideal ideology that the book of mormon promotes, the discussion will begin to take shape and form.

I looked over your link. I don't see how it relates to what I said.

Both liberty and democracy are well defined. What isn't well defined is their application.

[why me]

Got to say huh? Here as well.

Plus this appears to be off topic from the op description of what is to be discussed.

People are mentioning various countries in this thread. These countries have particular types of political systems. We need to remember that the critics who believe that Joseph Smith wrote the book of Mormon claim to see aspects of Jacksonian Democracy in it. I don't. But others claim that it is. Also there has been a mention of liberty and democracy, two generalisms that can be implied to be American in context.

 

Also, someone said that it is not the type of government that matters but the person who leads it. I disagree. The type of government does matter.

Edited January 10, 2014 by why me

[why me]

I looked over your link. I don't see how it relates to what I said.

Both liberty and democracy are well defined. What isn't well defined is their application.

When I have a class of political science students I always tell them not to use such words as democracy, liberty, and freedom without giving their definitions because they have particular connotations for many people. They need to be clear on their definitions of such words. My definition of freedom may not agree with your definition, especially when political systems are discussed.

 

Likewise when it comes to discussing these terms in relation to the book of mormon.

Edited January 10, 2014 by why me

[Freedom]

When I have a class of political science students I always tell them not to use such words as democracy, liberty, and freedom without giving their definitions because they have particular connotations for many people. They need to be clear on their definitions of such words. My definition of freedom may not agree with your definition, especially when political systems are discussed.

 

Likewise when it comes to discussing these terms in relation to the book of mormon.

Perhaps you should re-read my post. 

[why me]

uh. what?

Nowadays, the market system is all over the globe. It doesn't actually matter what country is mentioned they are affected by the market system that is centered in the anglosaxon model of capitalism. I don't see such a capitalism in the book of mormon. I don't see market economics. I see a different system in place.

[Freedom]

 

Also, someone said that it is not the type of government that matters but the person who leads it. I disagree. The type of government does matter.

 

Since we are talking about the context of the Book of Mormon, you will need to provide a reference to support this claim. 

[Freedom]

Nowadays, the market system is all over the globe. It doesn't actually matter what country is mentioned they are affected by the market system that is centered in the anglosaxon model of capitalism. I don't see such a capitalism in the book of mormon. I don't see market economics. I see a different system in place.

Again, I think you need to re-read my post. 

[why me]

Perhaps you should re-read my post. 

What is liberty and what is democracy? These words were mentioned on this thread. What do they mean to you? And how do these words relate to the book of mormon? But this question could be asked to all on this thread. We tend to throw these words into the discussion without giving definitions of them.

Edited January 10, 2014 by why me

[why me]

During Book of Mormon times (and not limited to the Book of Mormon's location) there wasn't any reasonable separation between politics and religion. Pretty much everything in the Book of Mormon touches concepts of what we would call politics, beginning with Nephi's justification of his right to rule in spite of not being an eldest son. Politics become very complex (as does religion and social interrelationships) after the Nephites arrive in Zarahemla.

I think that you are correct. But this is why we need to be careful with using words such as liberty and democracy. The political ideologies that are in the book of mormon cannot be compared to our understanding of politcs today. They had particular systems of governance that either worked well and didn't. Much depended on the level of contention and strife in society. They were at peace when their values  and political governance did not stress wealth and greed, two words that can sow contention within a people and with god.

Edited January 10, 2014 by why me

[Vance]

But this is why we need to be careful with using words such as liberty and democracy.

By my count the word "liberty" or a derivative is used 44 times. The majority of which could be construed to be in a political context. Its usage in the BoM certainly should help us understand what its definition is with regard to this thread.

"Democracy" isn't used at all. I don't understand why you even brought it up.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Vance

[Freedom]

What is liberty and what is democracy? These words were mentioned on this thread. What do they mean to you? And how do these words relate to the book of mormon? But this question could be asked to all on this thread. We tend to throw these words into the discussion without giving definitions of them.

This response has nothing to do with your initial comments about my post in reference to Canada as compared to the UK and the U.S. But what ever. 

 

My point, just to get you back on track, is that the Book of Mormon does not address government systems. The authors are equally comfortable with kings as they are with judges, and they make no mention of constitutions, popular votes or any of the other conventions. The type of government, as far as th  Book of Mormon is concerned, is not relevant., All that matters is if the chosen leader is a man of God. 

 

My other point is that many people in the western world complain about the state of the government (I did not mention what type) as if they are in far worse a state than any other nation in the world such as those I mentioned.