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Is Religion Too Mystical?


EllenMaksoud

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I am not trying to reduce God to the rank of Starfleet commander, but sometimes I feel like we make religion too mysterious and unfathomable. Of course the religious texts we rely on today, including the BOM were published by people who had no idea what a Bullet Train, or Nuclear Sub were.  How would they know any of these things? Of course there were forward thinking people like Da Vinci and Nostradamus. They were heavily persecuted by the religious establishment. Poor Copernicus was put on house arrest until he recanted his ideas about the Sun being the center of the Solar system.

 

For myself, I am pretty sure that Ezekiel saw some kind of flying machine.  I know the author of a story called, "Katia In Afghanistan", in which aliens used a vessel camouflaged to look like a whale. Was Jonah's whale not a real whale?

 

I believe that Middle Eastern culture produced some very advanced science until radical elements in Islam drug them all back beyond the Middle Ages.

 

It is without question that Heavenly Father and perhaps others do things that we can not comprehend or see. I wonder why that is?

 

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I am not trying to reduce God to the rank of Starfleet commander, but sometimes I feel like we make religion too mysterious and unfathomable. Of course the religious texts we rely on today, including the BOM were published by people who had no idea what a Bullet Train, or Nuclear Sub were.  How would they know any of these things? Of course there were forward thinking people like Da Vinci and Nostradamus. They were heavily persecuted by the religious establishment. Poor Copernicus was put on house arrest until he recanted his ideas about the Sun being the center of the Solar system.

 

For myself, I am pretty sure that Ezekiel saw some kind of flying machine.  I know the author of a story called, "Katia In Afghanistan", in which aliens used a vessel camouflaged to look like a whale. Was Jonah's whale not a real whale?

 

I believe that Middle Eastern culture produced some very advanced science until radical elements in Islam drug them all back beyond the Middle Ages.

 

It is without question that Heavenly Father and perhaps others do things that we can not comprehend or see. I wonder why that is?

Some people think that a "mystical" experience is at the heart of religion.  I might mention Santa Teresa d'Avila and St John of the Cross within Roman Catholicism, Sufis and darwishes within Islam, and Sri Ramakrishna within 19th century Hinduism, just to name a few.

 

Such mysticism is indeed "unfathomable" in the sense that it cannot normally be understood via human reason and logic.  That you use the term "mysterious" is appropriate, since the so-called "pagan" mystery religions engendered mystical experiences through set rituals -- usually in temples or sacred precincts set aside for the rites of initiation, which were usually kept confidential (by oath).

 

So too, the mystes "initiant," was led through those rites of passage by a mystagogue "guide," in early Christianity.  For Mormons, the appropriate place for mystical experiences is the temple, especially the celestial room.

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I am not trying to reduce God to the rank of Starfleet commander, but sometimes I feel like we make religion too mysterious and unfathomable. Of course the religious texts we rely on today, including the BOM were published by people who had no idea what a Bullet Train, or Nuclear Sub were.  How would they know any of these things? Of course there were forward thinking people like Da Vinci and Nostradamus. They were heavily persecuted by the religious establishment. Poor Copernicus was put on house arrest until he recanted his ideas about the Sun being the center of the Solar system.

 

For myself, I am pretty sure that Ezekiel saw some kind of flying machine.  I know the author of a story called, "Katia In Afghanistan", in which aliens used a vessel camouflaged to look like a whale. Was Jonah's whale not a real whale?

 

I believe that Middle Eastern culture produced some very advanced science until radical elements in Islam drug them all back beyond the Middle Ages.

 

It is without question that Heavenly Father and perhaps others do things that we can not comprehend or see. I wonder why that is?

 

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017163629

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I am not trying to reduce God to the rank of Starfleet commander, but sometimes I feel like we make religion too mysterious and unfathomable. Of course the religious texts we rely on today, including the BOM were published by people who had no idea what a Bullet Train, or Nuclear Sub were.  How would they know any of these things? Of course there were forward thinking people like Da Vinci and Nostradamus. They were heavily persecuted by the religious establishment. Poor Copernicus was put on house arrest until he recanted his ideas about the Sun being the center of the Solar system.

 

For myself, I am pretty sure that Ezekiel saw some kind of flying machine.  I know the author of a story called, "Katia In Afghanistan", in which aliens used a vessel camouflaged to look like a whale. Was Jonah's whale not a real whale?

 

I believe that Middle Eastern culture produced some very advanced science until radical elements in Islam drug them all back beyond the Middle Ages.

 

It is without question that Heavenly Father and perhaps others do things that we can not comprehend or see. I wonder why that is?

 

I think you meant Galileo and not Copernicus. I also had a good laugh at Nostradamus being forward thinking. The guy wrote the equivalent of even-vaguer-then-usual horoscopes and people are still trying to twist them to fit events. Through bad translations and outright lying his supporters have convinced people he has credibility.

 

The Ezekiel seeing flying saucers theory is fun to UFO enthusiasts but Ezekiel was probably saying something his listeners would understand and that we do not.

 

I am not convinced of the veracity of the story of Jonah. It, like Job, is written as an edifying piece. I suspect Job is a story based on real events (I doubt anyone was there recording Job and his friend's speeches). Jonah is almost a comedy and is meant as a kind of spoof about Israelite pride and how dangerous and limiting it can be. I doubt it is based on real events.

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Then why wouldn't ezekiel have known how to describe it?

I would also like to point out that the eventually stagnant imperial hegemony known as the Ottoman Empire, and the arbitrary division of the Middle East by Western Europe had a far greater effect than radical Islam on the Middle East's current status.

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we need balance for sure, if you go to one extreme you get pie in the sky philosophy and if you go to the other extreme church is no different than a business meeting with numbers, graphs ala Corporation of the President da da da da da da

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I think you meant Galileo and not Copernicus. I also had a good laugh at Nostradamus being forward thinking. The guy wrote the equivalent of even-vaguer-then-usual horoscopes and people are still trying to twist them to fit events. Through bad translations and outright lying his supporters have convinced people he has credibility.

 

The Ezekiel seeing flying saucers theory is fun to UFO enthusiasts but Ezekiel was probably saying something his listeners would understand and that we do not.

 

I am not convinced of the veracity of the story of Jonah. It, like Job, is written as an edifying piece. I suspect Job is a story based on real events (I doubt anyone was there recording Job and his friend's speeches). Jonah is almost a comedy and is meant as a kind of spoof about Israelite pride and how dangerous and limiting it can be. I doubt it is based on real events.

I actually just try to learn the lessons taught by our theological works, and can wait until Jesus Christ has time to sit down for a piece of my Chocolate Cake and a glass of milk to explain it all to me. :) 

 

It is fascinating to me, having come from peudo Amish background that evolved into fundamentalist Christianity, with a side trip into Islam, thence to the crazy Mormons, who actually apply the word of God in a loving way.  Good heavens, what will happen next? :acute:

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I think you meant Galileo and not Copernicus. I also had a good laugh at Nostradamus being forward thinking. The guy wrote the equivalent of even-vaguer-then-usual horoscopes and people are still trying to twist them to fit events. Through bad translations and outright lying his supporters have convinced people he has credibility.

 

The Ezekiel seeing flying saucers theory is fun to UFO enthusiasts but Ezekiel was probably saying something his listeners would understand and that we do not.

 

I am not convinced of the veracity of the story of Jonah. It, like Job, is written as an edifying piece. I suspect Job is a story based on real events (I doubt anyone was there recording Job and his friend's speeches). Jonah is almost a comedy and is meant as a kind of spoof about Israelite pride and how dangerous and limiting it can be. I doubt it is based on real events.

No, wait, I wish to argue about this. :)  Copernicus is the one who postulated a sun centered solar system. Galileo made flying machines that we did not have the material science to support. He also designed Cello/Piano instrument that I do not think he ever heard.

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No, wait, I wish to argue about this. :)  Copernicus is the one who postulated a sun centered solar system. Galileo made flying machines that we did not have the material science to support. He also designed Cello/Piano instrument that I do not think he ever heard.

 

They both did but Copernicus did not share his work, knowing how controversial it was. Galileo was the one who got in trouble with the Church for it and ended up under house arrest. Admittedly Galileo got in trouble more for his acerbic tongue and the way he shared his conclusions more then for the conclusions themselves.

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They both did but Copernicus did not share his work, knowing how controversial it was. Galileo was the one who got in trouble with the Church for it and ended up under house arrest. Admittedly Galileo got in trouble more for his acerbic tongue and the way he shared his conclusions more then for the conclusions themselves.

I thought that Copernicus was under house arrest until he recanted his theory about the sun? I can't imagine Galileo recanting anything. :)

 

Nope, found where Galileo was the one under house arrest for supporting Copernicus's ideas. :(

Edited by EllenMaksoud
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I thought that Copernicus was under house arrest until he recanted his theory about the sun? I can't imagine Galileo recanting anything. :)

 

No, Galileo was under house arrest. Copernicus only published his work when he was near-death and they didn't create a stir. Copernicus was not as controversial a figure and he did not want to make waves and didn't. Galileo's trial led to a round of stamping out Copernicus's books. Galileo is reported to have recanted his theories when on trial but to have said under his breath that he was right.

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No, Galileo was under house arrest. Copernicus only published his work when he was near-death and they didn't create a stir. Copernicus was not as controversial a figure and he did not want to make waves and didn't. Galileo's trial led to a round of stamping out Copernicus's books. Galileo is reported to have recanted his theories when on trial but to have said under his breath that he was right.

You have my most humble thanks for helping this unworthy woman. :)

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I am not trying to reduce God to the rank of Starfleet commander, but sometimes I feel like we make religion too mysterious and unfathomable. Of course the religious texts we rely on today, including the BOM were published by people who had no idea what a Bullet Train, or Nuclear Sub were.  How would they know any of these things? Of course there were forward thinking people like Da Vinci and Nostradamus. They were heavily persecuted by the religious establishment. Poor Copernicus was put on house arrest until he recanted his ideas about the Sun being the center of the Solar system.

 

For myself, I am pretty sure that Ezekiel saw some kind of flying machine.  I know the author of a story called, "Katia In Afghanistan", in which aliens used a vessel camouflaged to look like a whale. Was Jonah's whale not a real whale?

 

I believe that Middle Eastern culture produced some very advanced science until radical elements in Islam drug them all back beyond the Middle Ages.

 

It is without question that Heavenly Father and perhaps others do things that we can not comprehend or see. I wonder why that is?

 

You know don't you that the macro-evolutionists dismiss all that as superstitious myth don't you? 

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No, wait, I wish to argue about this. :)  Copernicus is the one who postulated a sun centered solar system. Galileo made flying machines that we did not have the material science to support. He also designed Cello/Piano instrument that I do not think he ever heard.

See Bruno http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giordano_Bruno

 

Yikes. :shok:

Edited by thesometimesaint
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You know don't you that the macro-evolutionists dismiss all that as superstitious myth don't you? 

Reduced which to superstitious myth? If it is in the Bible, something happened full stop.

 

As to if I know that author, I assure you that she and I are quite close. She is especially proud of the last several paragraphs of the 4th chapter. :)

 

The fact that the Muslim civilization crashed and much knowledge was lost is fairly well established.

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Reduced which to superstitious myth? If it is in the Bible, something happened full stop.

 

As to if I know that author, I assure you that she and I are quite close. She is especially proud of the last several paragraphs of the 4th chapter. :)

 

The fact that the Muslim civilization crashed and much knowledge was lost is fairly well established.

 

I am not the one dismissing it.  I have posted in several threads that much of this information is not being considered in origin theories.

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I am not the one dismissing it.  I have posted in several threads that much of this information is not being considered in origin theories.

Sorry, Ditz mode is fully locked on. :) Dismissing the stories in the Bible? Yes, well that has gone on for a long time. I don't give "Athiest Scientists" much credence. Some of the OT may be metaphorical, so I am content to just wait and get it first hand.

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