Stone holm Posted November 30, 2013 Author Posted November 30, 2013 When two very different cultures collide bad things happen.Sometimes, other times they just open fashionable restaurants.
thesometimesaint Posted November 30, 2013 Posted November 30, 2013 So did the Sioux, point being? That the white man didn't bring evil to a bunch of peace loving hippies.
thesometimesaint Posted November 30, 2013 Posted November 30, 2013 Sometimes, other times they just open fashionable restaurants. Fusion Cuisine. Yummm.
Storm Rider Posted November 30, 2013 Posted November 30, 2013 I have no problem celebrating Christopher Columbus and the early settlers of the Americas. I long ago forfeited the notion of the noble savage that lived peacefully with others and in tune with nature; this is strictly the romantic idealization of an idea that has no basis in historical fact. atrocities that people commit against one another. I am grateful that my ancestors were some of the first Europeans to come to this part of the world and I am grateful for their sacrifice. I cannot pinpoint a specific atrocity that any of my ancestors committed against some of the earlier settlers of this country, but I acknowledge the fact that atrocities occurred. What is surprising is that no one has yet been able to identify with any degree of certainty the earliest settlers or the original peoples of this continent. The fact that one group of settlers displaced another group of settlers is a story that has been repeated constantly throughout history and is being repeated today.
ERayR Posted November 30, 2013 Posted November 30, 2013 Sometimes, other times they just open fashionable restaurants. Heartburn. As I said bad things happen.
Stone holm Posted December 1, 2013 Author Posted December 1, 2013 Fusion Cuisine. Yummm. Except we normally convert healthy cultural diets into something unhealthy its one of our American specialties.
thesometimesaint Posted December 1, 2013 Posted December 1, 2013 Except we normally convert healthy cultural diets into something unhealthy its one of our American specialties. In America the four food groups are sugar, fat, salt, and caffeine.
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted December 1, 2013 Posted December 1, 2013 Yeah, they all got a lot worse before they got better..have occasionally wondered what cultural insights we could have gleaned before crushing themOur greatest mistake was isolating them on reservations and paying them for just "being". Unemployment, a lack of higher education, alcoholism and broken families are higher than any other people. These are the sins we are creating today, they need to live among us and have access to the same opportunities that other Americans have. When we pay for someone to simply live, we destroy their potential and self esteem...we must do what is right at long last, live according to our creed, have one Nation, one people and understand that indeed, "all men are created equal". Some tribes have advance through having gambling in States where it is not permitted, but this harms those who gamble, because the "house" usually wins and family suffer as a result. If we took another race and put them on reservations we would be considered monsters, and rightfully so.
Stone holm Posted December 1, 2013 Author Posted December 1, 2013 In America the four food groups are sugar, fat, salt, and caffeine. Left out chocolate.
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted December 1, 2013 Posted December 1, 2013 Left out chocolate.Chocolate...food of the God's.
Stone holm Posted December 2, 2013 Author Posted December 2, 2013 Our greatest mistake was isolating them on reservations and paying them for just "being". Unemployment, a lack of higher education, alcoholism and broken families are higher than any other people. These are the sins we are creating today, they need to live among us and have access to the same opportunities that other Americans have. When we pay for someone to simply live, we destroy their potential and self esteem...we must do what is right at long last, live according to our creed, have one Nation, one people and understand that indeed, "all men are created equal". Some tribes have advance through having gambling in States where it is not permitted, but this harms those who gamble, because the "house" usually wins and family suffer as a result. If we took another race and put them on reservations we would be considered monsters, and rightfully so.Well we wanted their land, and it fit better with our morals in those days to imprison them on land no one wanted than simply shoot them
teddyaware Posted December 2, 2013 Posted December 2, 2013 (edited) Your point is misguided. You said: The word of the Lord does have great impact, your interpretation on the other hand... I personally find your understanding of 1 Nephi 13 to be a gross misunderstanding of scripture by overgeneralizing all Native Americans as Lamanites, and by justifying all gentiles in their rapes, murders, and broken covenants toward the Native Americans. To assume that such heinous acts can be performed in, and guided by the Spirit is just wrong! Where the scripture says, " And I beheld the Spirit of the Lord, that it was upon the Gentiles" I take that to mean collectively and not so much individually. Kind of like the period of enlightenment. Yes, the spirit led the gentiles to the promised land, and yes the prophesy about the Lamanites was fulfilled. However, the fulfilling of prophecy by a person or people does not necessarily justify their actions in fulfilling the prophecy. Satan will ultimately fulfill prophecy, will he not? There are probably a ton of other examples.Hi Pogi Your point is misguided. You said: The word of the Lord does have great impact, your interpretation on the other hand... I personally find your understanding of 1 Nephi 13 to be a gross misunderstanding of scripture by overgeneralizing all Native Americans as Lamanites, and by justifying all gentiles in their rapes, murders, and broken covenants toward the Native Americans. To assume that such heinous acts can be performed in, and guided by the Spirit is just wrong! Where the scripture says, " And I beheld the Spirit of the Lord, that it was upon the Gentiles" I take that to mean collectively and not so much individually. Kind of like the period of enlightenment. Yes, the spirit led the gentiles to the promised land, and yes the prophesy about the Lamanites was fulfilled. However, the fulfilling of prophecy by a person or people does not necessarily justify their actions in fulfilling the prophecy. Satan will ultimately fulfill prophecy, will he not? There are probably a ton of other examples. Hi pogi, Back from the holiday. Considering I deliberately said next to nothing about my interpretation of the verses in question, I'm amazed at how much you've been able to glean about my interpretation of the same with such paucity of information. You make the same mistake so many make in discussion forums like this one -- you've made assumptions, jumped to conclusions and read between the lines to find rhetorical phantoms that aren't actually there. Fact is, I'm largely in agreement with what you have to say. My original posted response on this thread was made with a twinkle in my eye and my tongue planted firmly in cheek. I was having some fun by knowingly stirring the pot, and with next to nothing said on my part, you presumed to think you had my position on Nephi's words down pat. We'll chat later; I'm off to work. Edited December 3, 2013 by teddyaware
thesometimesaint Posted December 2, 2013 Posted December 2, 2013 Left out chocolate. Ever try eating pure cocoa powder?
Stone holm Posted December 2, 2013 Author Posted December 2, 2013 Ever try eating pure cocoa powder? No should I have said milk chocolate?
thesometimesaint Posted December 2, 2013 Posted December 2, 2013 No should I have said milk chocolate? Maybe. I tend towards the bitter-sweet chocolate myself.
Stone holm Posted December 2, 2013 Author Posted December 2, 2013 The thing that bothers me the most about the great reduction in the Amerindian population, is the irretrievably lost cultural wisdom. I realize that this has been over romanticized, however, I also suspect there was an incredible amount of spiritual knowledge and understanding, and probably other more temporal knowledge that was simply destroyed because of our superior technological attainments.
thesometimesaint Posted December 2, 2013 Posted December 2, 2013 The thing that bothers me the most about the great reduction in the Amerindian population, is the irretrievably lost cultural wisdom. I realize that this has been over romanticized, however, I also suspect there was an incredible amount of spiritual knowledge and understanding, and probably other more temporal knowledge that was simply destroyed because of our superior technological attainments.Agreed.
brightpath Posted December 3, 2013 Posted December 3, 2013 Help me out here, of all the native americans that were killed and scattered, how many were the Lamanites? All of them were Lamanites. All native people in the Americas are Lamanites. Sorry no Asians made it over the mythical land bridge. The Gentile invasions happened after Israel rejected the gospel 421 AD.
brightpath Posted December 3, 2013 Posted December 3, 2013 I have no problem celebrating Christopher Columbus and the early settlers of the Americas. I long ago forfeited the notion of the noble savage that lived peacefully with others and in tune with nature; this is strictly the romantic idealization of an idea that has no basis in historical fact. atrocities that people commit against one another. I am grateful that my ancestors were some of the first Europeans to come to this part of the world and I am grateful for their sacrifice. I cannot pinpoint a specific atrocity that any of my ancestors committed against some of the earlier settlers of this country, but I acknowledge the fact that atrocities occurred. What is surprising is that no one has yet been able to identify with any degree of certainty the earliest settlers or the original peoples of this continent. The fact that one group of settlers displaced another group of settlers is a story that has been repeated constantly throughout history and is being repeated today. Noble savage really Storm Rider! What a racist statement. let me help you out here. The earliest known peoples were the Jaradites, followed by the Nephites, and Mulekites! No Asians were present.
thesometimesaint Posted December 3, 2013 Posted December 3, 2013 Noble savage really Storm Rider! What a racist statement. let me help you out here. The earliest known peoples were the Jaradites, followed by the Nephites, and Mulekites! No Asians were present.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clovis_point
Stone holm Posted December 3, 2013 Author Posted December 3, 2013 All of them were Lamanites. All native people in the Americas are Lamanites. Sorry no Asians made it over the mythical land bridge. The Gentile invasions happened after Israel rejected the gospel 421 AD. Pretty strong assertion for a position that even the Church is backing away from and which DNA evidence is strongly contradicting.
brightpath Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 The church is backing away from slot of things lately. It still doesn't make it right.
thesometimesaint Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 The church is backing away from slot of things lately. It still doesn't make it right. Unfortunately for you the Church gets to decide its own doctrine.
Stone holm Posted December 18, 2013 Author Posted December 18, 2013 The church is backing away from slot of things lately. It still doesn't make it right. That skates on pretty thin ice.
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