Unworthy Leaders And Inspiration

[Duncan]

They should not serve in a church capacity. Read 1 Tim 3:1-7

 

This is what is says among other things:

A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

 

He must be the husband of one wife. This scripture therefore also disqualifies Joseph Smith from being an overseer in the church.

 

 

Do you believe Jesus was married?

[omni]

I think the purpose of those verses, Rob Osborn, is to deter leaders from acting unrighteously or unworthily.  I don't think it's to say that the blessings and ordinances received (righteously and worthily) even at the hands of those who bestow such blessings who have acted otherwise unrighteously or unworthily are "null and void" or of no effect.  I'm unaware of any case (though I would welcome correction from anyone more in-the-know than I am) of blessings or ordinances needing to be redone because of the unrighteousness or unworthiness of the leader who performed them.  (We don't require ordinances to be redone even if the officiator is unworthy.)   In such cases, I believe the righteousness and worthiness of the recipient controls.

You are correct, but I'm too lazy to look up a statement to back it up. It's something along the lines of the ordinance performed is still valid, but there will be condemnation upon the head of him who performed it unworthily. If this were not the case think of how many sacraments that were blessed by a 16 year old boy with raging hormones would now be invalidated.

[ERayR]

They should not serve in a church capacity. Read 1 Tim 3:1-7

 

This is what is says among other things:

A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

 

He must be the husband of one wife. This scripture therefore also disqualifies Joseph Smith from being an overseer in the church.

 

Well yes that is obvious but people who do these things usually do not do so in plain sight or hang a sign around their neck confessing their sins.  It is not the policy of the Church to seek them out to serve.

[ERayR]

Any unrepentant person will not be in the presence of God in the life hereafter. If you are selfish and live for yourself and do whatever you lust after you will be condemned to hell. That is what the Bible teaches. 

 

Yup that is what it says.

[Scott Lloyd]

I am very bothered by Martin MacNeill who is on trial for murder. He had multiple affairs, forgeries, probable murder, faked religious experiences. He was predatory in at least some of his sexual misbehavior including molesting a daughter. He had been called to be bishop and had issued multiple callings and ordained multiple people.

Is any modicum of worthiness necessary?

Is there any inspiration in his callings or his being called?

Joining this thread late, and haven't read through it yet, but it occurs to me this could be an extreme example of tares and wheat growing together.

[rongo]

You are correct, but I'm too lazy to look up a statement to back it up. It's something along the lines of the ordinance performed is still valid, but there will be condemnation upon the head of him who performed it unworthily. If this were not the case think of how many sacraments that were blessed by a 16 year old boy with raging hormones would now be invalidated.

This is what Dan Peterson argued much more extensively in a response to Paul Toscano (and though it was yet in the future, more recently, Denver Snuffer): if the worthiness of the priesthood holder determined ordinance validity, we could never be sure of anything. You are not really baptized, I am not really baptized, and nobody holds the priesthood. Not really. 

 

As Peterson pointed out, this is the same conclusion the Catholic Church reached when similar questions were raised. It is the only conclusion that can be raised, without putting an asterisk next to everything in the Church. My first counselor when I was a bishop, was a converted atheist with a powerful testimony. The man who baptized him was later found out to be clearly unworthy at the time (similar to the subject of the OP), and this bothered him for a long time. This is the conclusion he has reached as well, both intellectually and spiritually. 

 

I had reached similar conclusions to Dr. Peterson when I was in high school and wondered where Alma got the priesthood from. Was he ordained by an angel and it wasn't recorded in the Book of Mormon? I believe that he had it from King Noah, even though Noah and his priests were clearly not worthy. They held the authority, but not the power, and Alma's priesthood power was unleashed upon his true repentance and access to the atonement. But he didn't have to be ordained/re-ordained. I think that many ordinances are validly performed in the Church by unworthy men. We try our best to ensure worthiness, but these ordinances aren't invalidated (it's not the recipient's fault). And, the unworthy priesthood holder is in deep trouble if he does not repent of this serious matter.

[Rob Osborn]

The priesthood holds the power to seal both things in heaven and in earth. This power is sustained by ones own righteousness. The more righteous one is the more in tune he is with the spirit in his priesthood calling and spiritual gifts. Sins, especially those we try to hide from God, diminish ones power and authority as they do go hand in hand. Because we are all sinners God has mercy upon us through Jesus Christ which allows us to still operate and use the priesthood even though we are not completely perfect or without sin. As we learn to be more righteous and seek to use the priesthood power in more divine and pure manners that gift and power becomes more enhanced and focused just as the more unrighteous we become that gift and power fades. It may even fade to a point to where the spirit- the sealing power (that which gives us true authority) is completely withdrawn and the individual acts without power or authority and is manifest within that individual who would no longer feel that spirit of revelation and spirit of authority. Others who are in tune with the spirit can and often do acknowledge a lack of power and authority in another who is not living in accordance with that priesthood calling. There have been times in my own life because of my sins which seem to often confront me that I not only feel inadequate to perform priesthood blessings and give inspiration but when I do anyway I do not feel a connection with the sealing power (the holy Ghost) as strongly as I do when I am living righteously. God has great mercy on us though and works with our infirmities and sins and gently persuades us to overcome our weaknesses and still use the priesthood in our callings as imperfect individuals. What must be understood though is that lighting and dimming scale of power and authority one wields according to ones righteousness and that at times, because of ones sins, that power and authority can dim to the point where he is no longer acting as Gods agent in his calling and the powers of heaven, including inspiration and revelation are withdrawn. A person acting in this manner is obviously living under a very diminished spiritual life and does not look to God in his life and comes to actually become disgusted with Gods real work. God just cannot allow these type of men to run his affairs and thus why the heavens withdraw themselves from these individuals in these circumstances. Usually and most often the individual is discerned out and relieved of his callingby his own admission or by the findings and promptings of others. Many sons of perdition are those who continued to wield the powers of heaven during the process of their own turning away from God and away from the priesthood power and authority. At some point God completely withdrew all powers of heaven from them and they no longer had any powers of heaven to bind and seal.

[Calm]

This power is sustained by ones own righteousness.

In part or in whole?  And if that latter, then where is God's part in it?

[Rob Osborn]

In part or in whole?  And if that latter, then where is God's part in it?

We have the right to act with power and authority from God when we are righteous beings. When I say that the priesthood power is sustained by our righteousness what this means is that our access or conduit to heavenly things, powers, etc, (the priesthood) is wholly dependent upon our righteousness. Thus, this power or "access to Gods power" is maintained and sustained by our own personal righteousness.

[Calm]

our access or conduit to heavenly things, powers, etc, (the priesthood) is wholly dependent upon our righteousness.

"Wholly dependent upon our righteousness"?  You don't believe that God has anything to do with granting us access?

[Rob Osborn]

"Wholly dependent upon our righteousness"?  You don't believe that God has anything to do with granting us access?

Of course. God grants all blessings and gifts and access to them. But it is still wholly dependant on our righteousness to access these things.

[VideoGameJunkie]

Bishops are human and make mistakes. The ordinances they do for others still count.