Why Do So Few Hear The Gospel? 2 Part ?

[Duncan]

Why is life set up so that the vast majority of people never have a chance of hearing, let alone accept, the gospel in this life? I know it isn't for lack of trying. It seems that almost everyone will hear it in the next life, why is it like that?

 

Wait there's more. Accepting Christ is more than having ordinances performed-do these people in the next life have to be charitable, have hope, exercise faith, go through an Abrahamic like test, all the qualities of a Christian lifestyle? How much faith is it if you see Jesus in the spirit world and don't live by faith but are now living by sight?

[Stargazer]

Why is life set up so that the vast majority of people never have a chance of hearing, let alone accept, the gospel in this life? I know it isn't for lack of trying. It seems that almost everyone will hear it in the next life, why is it like that?

 

Wait there's more. Accepting Christ is more than having ordinances performed-do these people in the next life have to be charitable, have hope, exercise faith, go through an Abrahamic like test, all the qualities of a Christian lifestyle? How much faith is it if you see Jesus in the spirit world and don't live by faith but are now living by sight?

 

That's interesting.

 

Have you had an Abrahamic test?  I know I haven't.  Who has lived for more than a few years and has NOT had hope, exercised faith, loved, been loved, and had to make choices between wrong and right?  Nobody!  Except those who might be unaccountable.

 

In fact, for those who lived in a time and place where the knowledge of Christ was not at all available, I would surmise that God would count obedience to whatever light those persons possessed as obedience to the Law of God, and disobedience to it as disobedience to the Law of God. 

 

It sure seems to me that there are Laws such as Thou shalt not kill and Thou shalt not commit adultery in most cultures, even in those who may never have heard of Christ.  I suspect that all of those people were sufficiently tested even without the full light and knowledge of the Gospel being available.

Edited October 17, 2013 by Stargazer

[canard78]

Why is life set up so that the vast majority of people never have a chance of hearing, let alone accept, the gospel in this life? I know it isn't for lack of trying. It seems that almost everyone will hear it in the next life, why is it like that?

 

Wait there's more. Accepting Christ is more than having ordinances performed-do these people in the next life have to be charitable, have hope, exercise faith, go through an Abrahamic like test, all the qualities of a Christian lifestyle? How much faith is it if you see Jesus in the spirit world and don't live by faith but are now living by sight?

 

I love this topic. I firmly believe in a personalised curriculum. God is the master teacher and knows the tools and timelines each of us need. 

 

You're right. The vast majority of people will live and die with no interaction with Mormonism and only a little more with Christianity. We are individuals. One size does not fit all. For a while my kids attended a private school where class sizes were 9-10 children with a teacher and classroom assistant. They used "student lead learning" where they would have a curriculum and lesson plan but the children could go off on tangents and progress at a different pace. They really thrived in this environment. Perhaps the closest they will get to a personalised education curriculum. In government schools funding means that there is one lesson for 30 students. The curriculum is great for a few, acceptable for some and fails others.

 

Other religions and philosophies still teach principles of charity, sacrifice, loyalty, obedience etc etc. People are still taught how to take 1/2 or 5 talents and double them. They know and love God even if they call him by different name.

 

A few perspectives from our leaders and other 'approved' sources:

 

“Based upon ancient and modern revelation, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints gladly teaches and declares the Christian doctrine that all men and women are brothers and sisters, not only by blood relationship from mortal progenitors, but also as literal spirit children of an Eternal Father.

“The great religious leaders of the world such as Mohammed, Confucius, and the Reformers, as well as philosophers including Socrates, Plato, and others, received a portion of God’s light. Moral truths were given to them by God to enlighten whole nations and to bring a higher level of understanding to individuals.

“The Hebrew prophets prepared the way for the coming of Jesus Christ, the promised Messiah, who should provide salvation for all mankind who believe in the gospel.

“Consistent with these truths, we believe that God has given and will give to all people sufficient knowledge to help them on their way to eternal salvation, either in this life or in the life to come.

“We also declare that the gospel of Jesus Christ, restored to his Church in our day, provides the only way to a mortal life of happiness and a fullness of joy forever. For those who have not received this gospel, the opportunity will come to them in the life hereafter if not in this life.

“Our message therefore is one of special love and concern for the eternal welfare of all men and women, regardless of religious belief, race, or nationality, knowing that we are truly brothers and sisters because we are the sons and daughters of the same Eternal Father.”

 

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1988/01/i-have-a-question?lang=eng

Also partially quoted by James E. Faust, “Communion with the Holy Spirit,” Ensign, Mar 2002, 2–7

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?locale=59&sourceId=e1e08c6a47e0c010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

 

"Perhaps the Lord needs such men on the outside of His Church to help it along... They are among its auxiliaries, and can do more good for the cause where the Lord has placed them, than anywhere else. … Hence, some are drawn into the fold and receive a testimony of the truth; while others remain unconverted … the beauties and glories of the gospel being veiled temporarily from their view, for a wise purpose. The Lord will open their eyes in His own due time. God is using more than one people for the accomplishment of His great and marvelous work. The Latter-day Saints cannot do it all. It is too vast, too arduous for any one people."

Elder Orson F. Whitney of the Quorum of the Twelve

Quoted by President Ezra Taft Benson in 1972:

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1972/07/civic-standards-for-the-faithful-saints?lang=eng

And more recently here on the church interfaith page:

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/interfaith

 

Latter-day Saints believe that all human beings are God’s children and that He loves all of us. He has inspired not only people of the Bible and the Book of Mormon but other people as well to carry out His purposes through all cultures and parts of the world. God inspires not only Latter-day Saints but also founders, teachers, philosophers, and reformers of other Christian and non-Christian religions. The restored gospel holds a positive relationship with other religions. Intolerance is always a sign of weakness. The Latter-day Saint perspective is that of the eleventh article of faith: “We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may” (Articles of Faith 1:11).

 

Elder Uchtdorf

http://rsc.byu.edu/archived/global-mormonism-21st-century/20-church-cross-cultural-world

 

"...we claim that God’s inspiration is not limited to the Latter-day Saints."

 

James E. Faust, “Communion with the Holy Spirit,” Ensign, Mar 2002, 2–7

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?locale=59&sourceId=e1e08c6a47e0c010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

 

"We believe there is a spiritual influence that emanates from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space. (See D&C 88:12.) All men share an inheritance of divine light. God operates among his children in all nations, and those who seek God are entitled to further light and knowledge, regardless of their race, nationality, or cultural traditions."

 

Howard W. Hunter http://www.lds.org/general-conference/print/1991/10/the-gospel-a-global-faith?lang=eng

 

 “[God] is using not only his covenant people, but other peoples as well, to consummate a work, stupendous, magnificent, and altogether too arduous for this little handful of Saints to accomplish by and of themselves. …All down the ages men bearing the authority of the Holy Priesthood—patriarchs, prophets, apostles and others, have officiated in the name of the Lord, doing the things that he required of them; and outside the pale of their activities other good and great men, not bearing the Priesthood, but possessing profundity of thought, great wisdom, and a desire to uplift their fellows, have been sent by the Almighty into many nations, to give them, not the fulness of the Gospel, but that portion of truth that they were able to receive and wisely use.” (In Conference Report, Apr. 1921, pp. 32–33.)

 

Elder Orson F. Whitney, (In Conference Report, Apr. 1921, pp. 32–33.)

Quoted by Howard W. Hunter http://www.lds.org/general-conference/print/1991/10/the-gospel-a-global-faith?lang=eng

 

“ndividual orientation to the Church of the Lamb or to the great and abominable church is not by membership but by loyalty. Just as there Latter-day Saints who belong to the great and abominable church because of their loyalty to Satan and his life-style, so there are members of other churches who belong to the Lamb because of their loyalty to him and his life-style. Membership is based more on who has your heart than on who has your records.”

 

Stephen E. Robinson, “Warring against the Saints of God,” Ensign, Jan 1988, 34.

http://www.lds.org/ensign/1988/01/warring-against-the-saints-of-god?lang=eng

[Hamba Tuhan]

When I was studying in America and serving as the president of an elders quorum, my first counsellor was a recent convert who was also in America to study (PhD), having grown up in Calcutta in a devoutly Hindu family. He slid seamlessly into the Church once he found it. All the life experiences he'd had beforehand had taught him exactly what he needed to know/value in order to recognise and then embrace the Restored Gospel. That's precisely what this life is doing for everyone: giving them opportunities to learn and make choices in preparation for eventually making other choices. Why should it be any different for people who don't get all the choices here?

[Duncan]

That's interesting.

 

Have you had an Abrahamic test?  I know I haven't.  Who has lived for more than a few years and has NOT had hope, exercised faith, loved, been loved, and had to make choices between wrong and right?  Nobody!  Except those who might be unaccountable.

 

In fact, for those who lived in a time and place where the knowledge of Christ was not at all available, I would surmise that God would count obedience to whatever light those persons possessed as obedience to the Law of God, and disobedience to it as disobedience to the Law of God. 

 

It sure seems to me that there are Laws such as Thou shalt not kill and Thou shalt not commit adultery in most cultures, even in those who may never have heard of Christ.  I suspect that all of those people were sufficiently tested even without the full light and knowledge of the Gospel being available.

 

 

Have I had an Abrahamic test?! yes! I thought everyone has to have one or some at least?! I was taught that in Church. It comes from D&C 101 the first few verses

[canard78]

In fact, for those who lived in a time and place where the knowledge of Christ was not at all available, I would surmise that God would count obedience to whatever light those persons possessed as obedience to the Law of God, and disobedience to it as disobedience to the Law of God. 

 

It sure seems to me that there are Laws such as Thou shalt not kill and Thou shalt not commit adultery in most cultures, even in those who may never have heard of Christ.  I suspect that all of those people were sufficiently tested even without the full light and knowledge of the Gospel being available.

 

I can't find it but Kevin Christensen posted something a while back which was a quote from Joseph Smith that said as much. It was in an article he'd written for the FairMormon blog (or similar). Something about how people will be judged by the laws of their own books and people with no law against the laws they chose for themselves.

 

I'm hoping he swing by and remember.

 

An LDS friend of mine said the other day "it's easy for people in Asia, they get a free pass." Absolutely not:

 

"We believe that God has given and will give to all peoples sufficient knowledge to help them on their way to eternal salvation”

 

James E. Faust

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?locale=59&sourceId=e1e08c6a47e0c010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

[CV75]

Why is life set up so that the vast majority of people never have a chance of hearing, let alone accept, the gospel in this life? I know it isn't for lack of trying. It seems that almost everyone will hear it in the next life, why is it like that?

Because this life continues into the spirit world, which is part of the same test. There are many benefits to this life that prepare us to receive the Gospel in this life or the next (getting a body, gaining experieince, gaining knowledge of opposition, exercising agency, obeying the Light of Christ, etc.).

 

Wait there's more. Accepting Christ is more than having ordinances performed-do these people in the next life have to be charitable, have hope, exercise faith, go through an Abrahamic like test, all the qualities of a Christian lifestyle? How much faith is it if you see Jesus in the spirit world and don't live by faith but are now living by sight?

Anyone can learn to be charitable, have hope, exercise faith, go through an Abrahamic like test, all the qualities of a Christian lifestyle just by heeding the Light of Christ within them during their lifetime's assigned time and place ("bounds of habitations" -- Acts 17:26) they may live in. By His grace these attributes will help us in the Spirit World to go the rest of the way.

 

I don't think it's a given that all the deceased see Jesus in the Spirit World (D&C 138:30-37), but He did prepare a way for them to find Him. This is much the same kind of missionary that work goes on in this life, so I don't see it as being any easier or any harder.

[Stargazer]

Have I had an Abrahamic test?! yes! I thought everyone has to have one or some at least?! I was taught that in Church. It comes from D&C 101 the first few verses

 

Darn it, I completely forgot that I did in fact have an Abrahamic test.  It slipped my mind.  When I told my Dad that I was going on a mission (he was a non-member) first instead of to college, he told me that if I went to college and got my degree, he'd pay for both college and my mission, but if I went on a mission first, I'd be on my own for both.  I contemplated that, and realized that if I went to college first I would probably never go on a mission, so I told him thanks but on my own was the way it would have to be.  It kinda put a strain on our relationship, but worked out in the end.  Not serving a mission wouldn't have caused me to leave the Church, I'm certain, but....

 

Well, hmmm.

 

But surely not everyone has this!  For example, a man in my ward is very wealthy and he sent all of his sons both on missions and to college, on his dime.  Maybe their missions were there Abrahamic tests?  But what about his daughters, who got married?  Oh, wait, they are not Abrahams, they are Sarahs.  Is there a Sarahic test?  Well, she had one I guess where she gave her servant to Abraham to have children with.  Does that count?  And what kind of Sarahic tests are there?

[CV75]

Is there a Sarahic test?  Well, she had one I guess where she gave her servant to Abraham to have children with.  Does that count?  And what kind of Sarahic tests are there?

Funny I was just reading this yesterday and thought that whenever "Abraham" is used in the context of the Gospel covenant, it includes "Sarah" without saying:

 

2 Nephi 8:2: "Look unto Abraham, your father, and unto Sarah, she that bare you; for I called him alone, and blessed him." I think when you say one name, you mean both persons, as in "Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created." (Genesis 5:2)

 

This is one wau in that husbands and wives are one in the Lord's marriage covenant.