British Pageant

[Alan]

To all my fellow Brits on the forum; if you haven't been to the British pageant yet, make sure you go.

Went last night and can report it is very, very good.

[savedbygrace]

where and when?

[theplains]

To all my fellow Brits on the forum; if you haven't been to the British pageant yet, make sure you go.

Went last night and can report it is very, very good.

Can you point me to where I can obtain an LDS-authorized-and-taped version of a live

production of any of these types of pageants? I have seen some mention on non-LDS

websites that pageant content is not accurate in some depictions. Some parts even give

false representations.

Thanks,

Jim

[canard78]

where and when?

It's on right now - near the Preston Temple. I think it runs for another 8 days.

I would imagine that if you don't have tickets you might not be able to get them now. I have relatives in the production and am gutted to be away on business for the whole 2 weeks of performances.

[Alan]

The British Pageant depicts the arrival of the first missionaries in these Isles in 1837, although it actually starts with the work of the reformers, Wycliffe, Tyndale et al. It follows various historical stories such as the first baptisms in the River Ribble in Preston, Benbows Farm etc, and then follows some of the Saints as they make the voyage across the ocean to Nauvoo and later the Salt Lake valley.

The singing and dancing is good, and it is very moving in places.

I did notice the production being filmed, so maybe there will be a DVD later.

I went on the first night and it was pouring with rain. There were some anti-Mormon protestors nearby on Temple Way who were getting soaked. Some of the pageant crew took a gazeebo out to them to help them stay dry. Nice touch.

Edited August 6, 2013 by Alan

[canard78]

I went on the first night and it was pouring with rain. There were some anti-Mormon protestors nearby on Temple Way who were getting soaked. Some of the pageant crew took a gazeebo out to them to help them stay dry. Nice touch.

That is one of the coolest things I've heard. Makes me smile just to think of it. Fighting fire with... a big hug.

I didn't realise we had anti-Mormon protesters in UK.

[MrG]

I am the guy who organized the "Anti Mormon" protests. Please see my blog for updates and thoughts

www.mormonisminvestigated.co.uk

While we were not of course endorsed by Pageant leadership, I did meet up with the Pageant president and he appreciated our manner and respectfulness. We were by no means there to protest but rather to share what we see as the Biblical gospel. I appreciate that discussion has like been had many times on this forum regarding what is the biblical gospel etc. However we were by no means protesting, I also went in and watched the pageant, it was very good.

Also we REALLY appreciated that gazebo

[canard78]

I am the guy who organized the "Anti Mormon" protests. Please see my blog for updates and thoughts

www.mormonisminvestigated.co.uk

While we were not of course endorsed by Pageant leadership, I did meet up with the Pageant president and he appreciated our manner and respectfulness. We were by no means there to protest but rather to share what we see as the Biblical gospel. I appreciate that discussion has like been had many times on this forum regarding what is the biblical gospel etc. However we were by no means protesting, I also went in and watched the pageant, it was very good.

Also we REALLY appreciated that gazebo

But why at our pageant?

We also send people out to share our understanding of the gospel. But you don't have Mormons gathering to soap-box outside of the gathering of other faiths.

[MrG]

If you want to reach Mormons I guess going where they are is the most logical thing.

There is no way I am gonna be able to convince you that this was a good idea, understandably, however as I said we were by no means protesting. We were very purposeful about letting everyone who did not want to speak to us pass us by with no problems at all, many of us had some great conversations and built a good rapport with people there.

On a personal note I would welcome you guys outside my church event anytime, though I appreciate many Christians would feel differently. Doing this outreach showed me possibly for the first time that it is possible to do this stuff in a positive way that can actually build relationships rather than walls.

[canard78]

Also MrG, one of your activists holds up a placard saying 1 John 5:13.

We believe that too:

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

I think there's a big misunderstanding about what people think we Mormons believe about Christ. The prophets and ordinances are all in place to help us believe in the name of Christ and be more Christlike as we serve him by loving and serving out fellow-man.

Joseph Smith said:

If I esteem mankind to be in error, shall I bear them down? No. I will lift them up, and in their own way too, if I cannot persuade them my way is better; and I will not seek to compel any man to believe as I do, only by the force of reasoning, for truth will cut its own way. Do you believe in Jesus Christ and the Gospel of salvation which he revealed? So do I. Christians should cease wrangling and contending with each other, and cultivate the principles of union and friendship in their midst; and they will do it before the millennium can be ushered in and Christ takes possession of His kingdom.

Joseph Smith, in History of the Church, 5:499

Also here: (Jeffrey R Holland Ensign Article: http://www.lds.org/liahona/2012/08/standing-together-for-the-cause-of-christ?lang=eng

And partly quoted here: (Teachings of the Presidents: Joseph Smith): http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=1b28b00367c45110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=da135f74db46c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

[MrG]

Thanks for that. Its funny while you are right we absolutely did have that sign saying "read 1John 5:!3 a lot of the stuff we showed to people was Mormon scripture. Such as Moroni 10:32, 2 Nephi 25:23 etc.

I appreciate there are many apologetic responses to the issues that us "Anti-Mormons" raise with these verses. However many day to day Mormons that we spoke too did not know for sure that they have eternal life. When asked will you be exalted and be with heavenly Father in eternity many sincerely said "I hope so". So while we critics may have "misunderstood" so much of Mormonism it seems that many members have too, you would likely agree with that point.

Our hope and desire in being there was to communicate that Jesus and Jesus alone is enough to save, bring eternal life, exalt, whatever you want to call it. And not membership of any church whether yours or mine. Great example found at the end of Luke 7.

44 And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head.

45 Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet.

46 My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.

47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.

49 And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?

50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

[canard78]

Thanks for that. Its funny while you are right we absolutely did have that sign saying "read 1John 5:!3 a lot of the stuff we showed to people was Mormon scripture. Such as Moroni 10:32, 2 Nephi 25:23 etc.

I appreciate there are many apologetic responses to the issues that us "Anti-Mormons" raise with these verses. However many day to day Mormons that we spoke too did not know for sure that they have eternal life. When asked will you be exalted and be with heavenly Father in eternity many sincerely said "I hope so". So while we critics may have "misunderstood" so much of Mormonism it seems that many members have too, you would likely agree with that point.

Our hope and desire in being there was to communicate that Jesus and Jesus alone is enough to save, bring eternal life, exalt, whatever you want to call it. And not membership of any church whether yours or mine. Great example found at the end of Luke 7.

I fully agree that it's not the membership or the ordinances that saves us, but the grace of Christ.

If some Mormons don't realise this then they aren't reading their own scriptures. It's not that we don't preach this (as you've well demonstrated with Moroni 10:32), some just don't hear it.

I believe that in our acceptance of Christ it is manifested in following Christ. And the way Christ asked us to show we follow Christ was in loving God by serving our neighbour. But that's still not what saves us.

[MrG]

Cool thanks for that, I think thats obviously a big discussion and I plan on dropping on here more in days to come so for the sake of staying in topic I will leave that there.

Back to the British Pageant though have many people here been and what did they think? Are there any good honest sources that I could look at to see more of British Mormon history?

[cdowis]

MrG

Please understand that we understand that there is a very wide divide between those who disagree with the church and the anti-Mormons. We appreciate your respectful behaviour, and respect your right to disagree and to educate us on your beliefs.

You actually come onto this forum to talk with us ==>> Amazing!

Edited August 6, 2013 by cdowis

[MrG]

Thanks a lot I appreciate that!

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I am the guy who organized the "Anti Mormon" protests. Please see my blog for updates and thoughts

www.mormonisminvestigated.co.uk

While we were not of course endorsed by Pageant leadership, I did meet up with the Pageant president and he appreciated our manner and respectfulness. We were by no means there to protest but rather to share what we see as the Biblical gospel. I appreciate that discussion has like been had many times on this forum regarding what is the biblical gospel etc. However we were by no means protesting, I also went in and watched the pageant, it was very good.

Also we REALLY appreciated that gazebo

Well at least you call it anti-Mormon; what are you "pro" for?

[canard78]

Cool thanks for that, I think thats obviously a big discussion and I plan on dropping on here more in days to come so for the sake of staying in topic I will leave that there.

Back to the British Pageant though have many people here been and what did they think? Are there any good honest sources that I could look at to see more of British Mormon history?

I'm currently working away from UK and will get back a couple of weeks too late. The reviews of friends in the UK on Facebook has been very positive.

There's not a lot written on UK LDS history that I'm aware of. Peter Fagg, who runs the book shop near Preston Temple, runs a UK LDS history blog: http://ldsbritain.blogspot.com/

I'm not sure what else there is.

[MrG]

PAPA this could potentially open a corker of a discussion but I am Pro Jesus and the absolute sufficiency of Him for the salvation and eternal life of those that trust in Him. I also believe in the absolute condemnation of those that do not trust in Him and I would like to do what I can in living out that great commission even when it does not please everyone.

[MrG]

Thanks for that Canard

[canard78]

I also believe in the absolute condemnation of those that do not trust in Him and I would like to do what I can in living out that great commission even when it does not please everyone.

Can I ask what your perspective is of people of non-Christian faiths. People who born and die having being born into a structure and perspective that still teaches good principles but does not teach a belief, let alone a trust in Christ.

Do you believe the huge nations of the non-Christian world are damned? Do you condemn them?

[MrG]

I condemn noone, I am just going from Biblical teachings.

John 3:18 (two verses after the one everyone likes)

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Regardless of faith background etc if anyone has not totally trusted in Christ then they are condemned and their eternity will reflect this.

I certainly cannot look at whole groups of people and say they all fit into this, it is down to the individual and their trust in Christ. Many muslims will have looked past the Islamic teachings and trusted in Jesus for their salvation and be saved. This however would be despite rather than because of their movements teachings.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I condemn noone, I am just going from Biblical teachings.

John 3:18 (two verses after the one everyone likes)

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Regardless of faith background etc if anyone has not totally trusted in Christ then they are condemned and their eternity will reflect this.

I certainly cannot look at whole groups of people and say they all fit into this, it is down to the individual and their trust in Christ. Many muslims will have looked past the Islamic teachings and trusted in Jesus for their salvation and be saved. This however would be despite rather than because of their movements teachings.

Good you believe the Bible and in Christ...wow so do we. When you have enough posts to start a thread on that topic, we can all discuss those scriptures...that way we won't derail this thread. Edited August 6, 2013 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[MrG]

I can only look forward to that level of responsibility haha thanks for that.

[Tacenda]

I am the guy who organized the "Anti Mormon" protests. Please see my blog for updates and thoughts

www.mormonisminvestigated.co.uk

While we were not of course endorsed by Pageant leadership, I did meet up with the Pageant president and he appreciated our manner and respectfulness. We were by no means there to protest but rather to share what we see as the Biblical gospel. I appreciate that discussion has like been had many times on this forum regarding what is the biblical gospel etc. However we were by no means protesting, I also went in and watched the pageant, it was very good.

Also we REALLY appreciated that gazebo

I hope you're nothing like the anti's I witnessed going into the Nauvoo Pageant in Illinois. Yelling at those entering that they will go to hell if they believe in the church. That only makes one feel good about belonging to a loving group of people like LDS's. And makes a doubter like me, want to run to the arms of my fellow LDS saints.

[MrG]

We didnt yell at anyone. Just a bit of chit chat.