"New New Testament" From Dead Sea Scrolls

[rpn]

Does anyone here have information about this publication that incorporates 10 books from the DSS with the traditional New Testament? Why these additions? Etc.?

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/print/765625269/Dead-Sea-Scrolls-part-of-pastors-New-New-Testament.html

[MormonMason]

Does anyone here have information about this publication that incorporates 10 books from the DSS with the traditional New Testament? Why these additions? Etc.?

http://www.deseretne...-Testament.html

There are no Dead Sea Scrolls in the book. They are discussing and including sections from the texts of the Nag Hammadi Library. They have advocated for discarding the idea of 'Gnostic' for various of the texts and have decided to add a number of them, interspersed within the books of the current NT canon. The individuals themselves have included Acts of the Apostles under the category of a Gospel, as well. They have also added a translation of the Odes of Solomon from a critical edition of the Septuagint because these were revised and rewritten as Christian liturgical texts, and added to various Septuagint manuscripts. Their purpose was to make the New Testament more inclusive of other Christian traditions and texts from the first to third centuries as a kind of expanded, revised canon.

For the record, the Nag Hammadi Library and the Dead Sea Scrolls are two different collections from two completely different regions of the Middle East. The Nag Hammadi Library was found in Egypt and the Dead Sea Scrolls were found in caves around Qumran, not far from the shore of the Dead Sea, in Israel. I have no idea how the writer of the DN article could botch things up like that.

ETA: Here is a link to where you can purchase the book, if readers wish to do so:

http://www.amazon.com/New-Testament-Combining-Traditional-Discovered/dp/0547792107/ref=tmm_hrd_title_0

Edited March 26, 2013 by MormonMason

[CASteinman]

It is a bit strange to observe people believing that the writings of ancient apostates are so valuable, while the writings of modern prophets are ignored.

[MormonMason]

Yes, it seems to me a bit odd, too. But, if the idea of expanding the canon catches on, it will remove a very common objection about our expanded canon. We'll have to see how time plays this out.

[Ron Beron]

It is a bit strange to observe people believing that the writings of ancient apostates are so valuable, while the writings of modern prophets are ignored.

Apostates perhaps, but apostates held as apostates by other apostates.

[Stone holm]

Apostates perhaps, but apostates held as apostates by other apostates.

I was thinking a little about this today -- the role of apostates. We tend to be very derogatory about the Catholic and to a lesser extent the Orthodox and Protestant Churches concerning the apostasy. Which I guess comes naturally from the idea of the Restoration. But I have to pause and wonder exactly where would we be if Constantine hadn't made Christianity the established religion of the Roman Empire? True the result was that Augustine and others took many of the plain and precious truths away and substituted Greek philosophy in their place. But if the Roman Church had not Christianized basically all of Europe and the Orthodox hadn't done the same in the East -- where would we actually be? Might it not have been absolutely essential to God's Plan that something like that happen in order to make Christianity so widespread and isn't it pretty much an axiom that when you combine Church and State like Constantine did that religion becomes corrupted -- and if so, then perhaps it was necessary that Christianity be spread in a corrupted manner to prepare the ground for a latter Restoration? Or do we imagine that Joseph Smith would have had an easier time of it had he brought the Restoration into play in a completely pagan society?

[Kenngo1969]

... For the record, the Nag Hammadi Library and the Dead Sea Scrolls are two different collections from two completely different regions of the Middle East. The Nag Hammadi Library was found in Egypt and the Dead Sea Scrolls were found in caves around Qumran, not far from the shore of the Dead Sea, in Israel. I have no idea how the writer of the DN article could botch things up like that. ...

It wasn't written by a Deseret News writer, Mason. While the News apparently republished it, it was written by David O'Reilly of The Philadelphia Enquirer.

[blackstrap]

Ask a missionary to Japan which type is the most receptive to the restored gospel, a Japanese from a Bhuddist tradition or one from a Christian tradition.

[tyler90az]

Ask a missionary to Japan which type is the most receptive to the restored gospel, a Japanese from a Bhuddist tradition or one from a Christian tradition.

I do not know a Japanese missionary. A bhuddist?

Edited March 26, 2013 by tyler90az

[MormonMason]

It wasn't written by a Deseret News writer, Mason. While the News apparently republished it, it was written by David O'Reilly of The Philadelphia Enquirer.

I did not say DN writer. In any case, I am glad to know that it was not a DN writer. But, the DN should have written some sort of clarification as a footnote at the end of the article as is sometimes done when republishing articles of this kind.

[MormonMason]

I was thinking a little about this today -- the role of apostates. We tend to be very derogatory about the Catholic and to a lesser extent the Orthodox and Protestant Churches concerning the apostasy. Which I guess comes naturally from the idea of the Restoration. But I have to pause and wonder exactly where would we be if Constantine hadn't made Christianity the established religion of the Roman Empire? True the result was that Augustine and others took many of the plain and precious truths away and substituted Greek philosophy in their place. But if the Roman Church had not Christianized basically all of Europe and the Orthodox hadn't done the same in the East -- where would we actually be? Might it not have been absolutely essential to God's Plan that something like that happen in order to make Christianity so widespread and isn't it pretty much an axiom that when you combine Church and State like Constantine did that religion becomes corrupted -- and if so, then perhaps it was necessary that Christianity be spread in a corrupted manner to prepare the ground for a latter Restoration? Or do we imagine that Joseph Smith would have had an easier time of it had he brought the Restoration into play in a completely pagan society?

I think it was part of God's plan that things unfold as they did. I also am opinion that God had to wait as long as he did because had Joseph Smith existed earlier and tried to propagate the Restored Gospel, he would have been burned at the stake. I, as well as several General Authorities, pretty much agree that the spread of the Catholic faith and the Protestant Reformation opened up and prepared the way for the Restoration, as well as the setting up of a nation that would have allowed for freedom of religion enough for the formation and survival of the visible Church as it emerged from the wilderness anew.

[rayhale]

There is a “Dead Sea Scrolls Bible”, here is it’s Amazon’s link:

http://www.amazon.co...a scrolls bible

Edited March 27, 2013 by rayhale

[maklelan]

I just left a comment on the DesNews article:

The Nag Hammadi library has nothing to do with the Dead Sea Scrolls. The scrolls were texts hidden by a Jewish community that came to an end around 70 CE. They were discovered near the northern shores of the Dead Sea. The Nag Hammadi library was a collection of Gnostic texts hidden by Gnostic Christians at least a century later in Egypt.

My biggest concern with this "New New Testament" is the fact that the editor is just publishing Gnostic and proto-Gnostic texts that may or may not have enjoyed widespread circulation (one is completely unknown to antiquity or modernity outside of the single manuscript used for the publication), while ignoring numerous early Christian texts that were actually considered authoritative for the first couple centuries of the Christian faith, like the Shepherd of Hermas or the Epistle of Barnabas. The goal of the publication is just to highlight texts, irrespective of their popularity, that promote an anti-patriarchal and subversive brand of Christianity. I think it's important people understand that these other streams of tradition existed, but this publications strikes me as promoting ideology more than understanding.

[Ron Beron]

I was thinking a little about this today -- the role of apostates. We tend to be very derogatory about the Catholic and to a lesser extent the Orthodox and Protestant Churches concerning the apostasy. Which I guess comes naturally from the idea of the Restoration. But I have to pause and wonder exactly where would we be if Constantine hadn't made Christianity the established religion of the Roman Empire? True the result was that Augustine and others took many of the plain and precious truths away and substituted Greek philosophy in their place. But if the Roman Church had not Christianized basically all of Europe and the Orthodox hadn't done the same in the East -- where would we actually be? Might it not have been absolutely essential to God's Plan that something like that happen in order to make Christianity so widespread and isn't it pretty much an axiom that when you combine Church and State like Constantine did that religion becomes corrupted -- and if so, then perhaps it was necessary that Christianity be spread in a corrupted manner to prepare the ground for a latter Restoration? Or do we imagine that Joseph Smith would have had an easier time of it had he brought the Restoration into play in a completely pagan society?

Why start with Constantine? I had the same questions regarding Paul. If Paul hadn't changed the focus of Jesus' ministry then Christianity would have disappeared. Quite a paradox.

[Ron Beron]

Ask a missionary to Japan which type is the most receptive to the restored gospel, a Japanese from a Bhuddist tradition or one from a Christian tradition.

A Buddhist. Japan Tokyo 1975-77

[MormonMason]

A Buddhist. Japan Tokyo 1975-77

Maybe changing the inflection on the Japanese word for "personage" when retelling the Joseph Smith First Vision story might have helped?

[MormonMason]

Why start with Constantine? I had the same questions regarding Paul. If Paul hadn't changed the focus of Jesus' ministry then Christianity would have disappeared. Quite a paradox.

The apostasy already was well under way before Constantine. Already there had been at least two mass defections (one in the days of Christ's ministry) and wolves entering among the flock even in the days of the apostles. A growing number of people were beginning to ignore and to abandon the genuine apostles. The anticipated antichrist had come in John's time and John knew that it was the last hour for the Church as he knew it.

The apostasy had not been completed until some centuries later, however, after the major Councils that changed the Church's doctrines of God (I remember reading the sad plea of an Egyptian Christian when he was told that worship of an embodied Father now would be forbidden in the Church) and salvation to fit their understanding of earlier philosophers and began enforcing the same, and after Rome had seized control of the few independent Christian groups still not under Catholic sway.

[Calm]

Maybe changing the inflection on the Japanese word for "personage" when retelling the Joseph Smith First Vision story might have helped?

Please explain.

[Ron Beron]

Maybe changing the inflection on the Japanese word for "personage" when retelling the Joseph Smith First Vision story might have helped?

The word used in Japanese is Okata which means honorable personage. There is only one way to use the proper intonation here; O_ka_ta.

[MormonMason]

Please explain.

When some new missionaries used a word for "person" when telling the First Vision to investigators, the word sometimes used was ningen.

The word for carrot is ninjin.

Those hearing the telling by a new missionary mispronouncing the proper word for person would receive absolute looks of astonishment and wonder from the investigator(s) on his/her/their hearing Japanese equivalent of: " When the light rested upon me I  saw two carrots, whose brightness and  glory defy all description,  standing above me in the air One of them spoke to me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My  Beloved  Son. Hear Him!"

Well...you get the picture.

A returned missionary I knew, who served in Japan, told me that this happened with one of his "greenies."