Former [Mormon] Army Staff Sergeant To Receive Medal Of Honor For Actions In Afghanistan

[Darren10]

I suspect that no one here is seriously suggesting that the US military should disband.

However ... the US of A spent 711 billion dollars this last year on the military. Freedom ... seriously ... is NOT that expensive.

China spent 143 billion.

Russia spent 72 billion.

The UK spent 63 billion.

France spent 62 billion.

Japan spent 59 billion.

All other countries spent substantially less.

All other countries have substantially less freedom than the United States.

[Darren10]

We were attacked and our enemy is all over the world in many countries...and few else will step up to stop terrorists who kill women and children. How soon we forget.

And it is also primarily the US Navy which keeps the world's pirates in check.

[volgadon]

Somehow I don't think the writer understood what church leadership or seminary actually entails.

There was an LDS tour group in Israel a few years ago. One of the older couples in the group suddenly got VIP treatment by the hotel they were staying at, and it turns out that one of the staff had overheard the other members call the man bishop. The staff, knowing almost nothing about our church and its etiquette, starting thinking along the lines of a Catholic bishop or something of the sort, so immediately upgraded his room, meals, the lot. Nice accomplishment for a former bishop...

[The Nehor]

All other countries have substantially less freedom than the United States.

I've heard "Might makes Right" but "Might makes Freedom" is a new one for me.

By this standard though Canada is less free then China and Russia is more free then Britain. Or does it go by percentage of GDP? In which case North Korea under "Glorious Leader" is the most free nation on Earth.

[Darren10]

and have seen no need for the harsh internal measures we adopted to be "safe".

Like the ones used to find Bin Laden and stop another 9/11 attack upon Los Angeles?

Russia faces all kinds of issues both external and internal. Despite being in many ways a police state with military support they have a fraction of our spending.

Russia's military ain't didly squat compared to the US's. The best Russia can do is pose a threat from within a close geographic range to their homeland.

China has similar problems. France is not that far off from the UK.

China has a superb up and coming military and they aren't shy to use it. Keep a close eye on them. France's most used military tactic is to surrender. As a whole, they are utterly militarily pathetic. Who'd they run to to save their butts? The US saved them at least twice. Both a direct result in significantly increasing military spending.

Why do we have to have the best?

Who else would you like to have "the best" military? China? If so invest in a Chinese dictionary cuz much of the world will be speaking it (lol, on a non-military factoid, more or less 1/4 already do).

It worries me how much we seem to trust in munitions and killing technology. From what I have read in scripture God generally uses the wicked to punish the wicked. Military strength never seems to help the target of his wrath. In some ways we are lime the oldest generation of the British. Proud of our empire. I suspect the future or our empire and military prowess will look something like theirs.

You're absolutely correct in that true individual and collective strength (and freedom) comes by serving God and by remaining faithful to His commandments. With that in mind:

17 And Moroni took all the command, and the government of their wars. And he was only twenty and five years old when he was appointed chief captain over the armies of the Nephites.

18 And it came to pass that he met the Lamanites in the borders of Jershon, and his people were armed with swords, and with cimeters, and all manner of weapons of war.

19 And when the armies of the Lamanites saw that the people of Nephi, or that Moroni, had prepared his people with breastplates and with arm-shields, yea, and also shields to defend their heads, and also they were dressed with thick clothing—

Alma 43

Also;

27 Yea, he was exceedingly wroth, and he did curse God, and also Moroni, swearing with an oath that he would drink his blood; and this because Moroni had kept the commandments of God in preparing for the safety of his people.

Alma 49

And Captain Moroni's character?

16 And also, that God would make it known unto them whither they should go to defend themselves against their enemies, and by so doing, the Lord would deliver them; and this was the faith of Moroni, and his heart did glory in it; not in the shedding of blood but in doing good, in preserving his people, yea, in keeping the commandments of God, yea, and resisting iniquity.

17 Yea, verily, verily I say unto you, if all men had been, and were, and ever would be, like unto Moroni, behold, the very powers of hell would have been shaken forever; yea, the devil would never have power over the hearts of the children of men.

Alma 48

There's a direct link between godly righteousness and having "the best" military.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Darren10

[Darren10]

I've heard "Might makes Right" but "Might makes Freedom" is a new one for me.

By this standard though Canada is less free then China and Russia is more free then Britain. Or does it go by percentage of GDP? In which case North Korea under "Glorious Leader" is the most free nation on Earth.

Nope, your making this all hyperbolic. A nation's freedom is based on what a nation's people chooses to do. This is true in Canada which is definitely more free than China but it has a great luxury of not having to spend billions on a military. The US would NEVER allow another nation to invade and conquor it. Ditto for Japan.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Darren10

[Darren10]

N. Korea has the luxury of receiving China's full unadulterated help in the case of an invasion. Like, you know, what happened during the Korean War.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Darren10

[cursor]

All other countries have substantially less freedom than the United States.

How exactly do the freedoms that you enjoy as a US citizen exceed those of the French, or the Japanese, or the citizens of the UK?

Edited January 17, 2013 by cursor

[mfbukowski]

While I know this is going to be unpopular here, I have to say that I do not agree that this is "cool".

What is cool about killing people?

Ask the Brits who died on D day why they killed people. They did so so you could say that on this thread.

[Darren10]

Come to think of it, I'd say that there is *definitely* a higher level to secure freedom when a nation spends strictly on military mght as opposed to healthcare, Social Security, etc. But that's getting a bit too political I think for the terms of conditions to post here so I digress.

[mfbukowski]

Seriously ...? I'm hardly forgetting. The scale of US military investment must, however, be seriously questioned.

I wonder why none of those other nations have attacked us. The reason should be self-evident.

But I would love to see the source for that graph.

[volgadon]

Russia's military ain't didly squat compared to the US's. The best they can do is pose a threat from within a close geogrphic range to their homeland.

Not strictly true. The US has better quality aircraft, but the Russian airforce can still pack a punch, and it has impressive missile systems. Same goes for submarines. The land forces are also formidable, so even if the USA goes up against them and wins, you would still taking a painful bruising.

The US would NEVER allow another nation to invade and conquor it.

Nor would Russia, for that matter.

Edited January 17, 2013 by volgadon

[Darren10]

How exactly do the freedoms that you enjoy as a US citizen exceed those of the French, or the Japanese, or the citizens of the UK?

The Bill of Rights is a good place to start educating yourself.

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights.html

They help to avoid precisely the overbearing reach of a central government which we see in Japan, France, and the UK.

[mfbukowski]

There was an LDS tour group in Israel a few years ago. One of the older couples in the group suddenly got VIP treatment by the hotel they were staying at, and it turns out that one of the staff had overheard the other members call the man bishop. The staff, knowing almost nothing about our church and its etiquette, starting thinking along the lines of a Catholic bishop or something of the sort, so immediately upgraded his room, meals, the lot. Nice accomplishment for a former bishop...

Now what hotel did you say that was?

[volgadon]

Ask Johnny Cope,

If he's waukin yet?

[Darren10]

Not strictly true. The US has better quality aircraft, but the Russian airforce can still pack a punch, and it has impressive missile systems. Same goes for submarines. The land forces are also formidable, so even if the USA goes up against them and wins, you would still taking a painful bruising.

Nor would Russia, for that matter.

Yes, the Russian military could pack a punch no matter where it is but it's true force is shown only in places geographically near its homeland. Still, i agree it's not a force to trifle with.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Darren10

[Darren10]

volgadon;

As for "Nor would Russia, for that matter.", do you mean another country to conquor Canada? If so wouldn't the US and Great Britain respond quicker and even more aggressively if for anything, they have a direct interest in Canada's societal survival?

Forgot to add: Or did you mean Russia would never let Russia be conquored?

Edited January 17, 2013 by Darren10

[mfbukowski]

Oh yeah?

Well that guy might be big but he's only got a sword and I bet John Wayne could take him with his six-shooter anyway!

[Darren10]

FREEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMM!!!!!...in Great Britain. (Ditto France)

http://www.taxrates.cc/html/uk-tax-rates.html

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/11/28/274978/millionaires-leave-uk-to-avoid-tax/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html (With very strict gun control which the 2nd ammendment prohibits from the federal government) - http://newsblaze.com/story/20130114105621zzzz.nb/topstory.html

http://pjmedia.com/blog/great-britains-free-speech-breakdown/ (1st Amendment forbids the federal government to do any such thing in the US)

[Darren10]

Oh yeah?

Well that guy might be big but he's only got a sword and I bet John Wayne could take him with his six-shooter anyway!

You got True Grit there, buddy.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0065126/

Edited January 17, 2013 by Darren10

[volgadon]

Oh yeah?

Well that guy might be big but he's only got a sword and I bet John Wayne could take him with his six-shooter anyway!

The one with a sword is a woman, a mother, so I think John Wayne wouldn't stand a chance...

[volgadon]

volgadon;

As for "Nor would Russia, for that matter.", do you mean another country to conquor Canada? If so wouldn't the US and Great Britain respond quicker and even more aggressively if for anything, they have a direct interest in Canada's societal survival?

Forgot to add: Or did you mean Russia would never let Russia be conquored?

i meant allowing itself to be conquered, so I must have misread you.

[The Nehor]

Like the ones used to find Bin Laden and stop another 9/11 attack in Los Angeles?

Bin Laden was found by tracing him externally. As for 9/11 it was a one-shot. No one else could pull it off again. For some reason we are still pretending body scan devices and keeping liquids off planes keep us safe.....we are morons:

Russia's military ain't didly squat compared to the US's. The best they can do is pose a threat from within a close geogrphic range to their homeland.

At least you are now seem to be admitting that our military is used to threaten others and not to defend ourselves. Why do we need to threaten others. Seems opposed to Book of Mormon principles that only defense is justified. A preemptive or even retributive external strike is strictly prohibited.

China has a superb up and coming military and they aren't shy to use it. Keep a close eye on them. France's most used military tactic is to surrender. As a wholem, they are utterly pathetic. Who'd they run to to save their butts? The US saved them at least twice. both a direct result in significantly increasing military spending.

China wants to play saber-rattling power politics in the Pacific. They can't seriously threaten us and we cannot seriously threaten them except in a MAD scenario. Why do we need this many carriers?

As for France you may want to be a little more thankful. They did after all intervene in the Revolutionary War so we could one day have a Constitution.

Who else would you like to have "the best" military? China? If so invest in a Chinese dictionary cuz much of the world willl be speaking it (lol, on a non-military factoid, more or less 1/4 already do).

A strawman. They cannot realistically strike at us and we cannot realistically strike at them. Even if they could I do not accept that Soviet-style realpolitick "How many divisions do you have?" can or should make our decisions.

you're absolutely correct in that true individual and collective strength comes by serving God and by remaining faithful to His commandments. With that in mind:

Alma 43

Alma 49

Alma 48

Since we are praising Moroni (and I can join in that) can we look at why he thought they started out losing the big war (hint: it wasn't because they lacked swords)

There's a direct link between godly righteousness and having "the best" military.

I can think of no dispensation of the gospel where this applied or even was suggested. When Enoch's city was attacked God wiped out the attackers without them doing a thing. The righteous need no army.

N. Korea has the luxury of receiving China's full unadulterated help in the case of an invasion. Like you know, what happened during the Korean War.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! China intervening to protect N Korea? Someone is still stuck in the 60s and 70s.

China's only concern at this point is propping up the government so they are not deluged with refugees when the regime fails. They have no other vested interest left in North Korea. In fact if South Korea was willing and able to occupy North Korea and reunite the nation I expect they would be very pleased if that happened. South Korea would not if they had the opportunity as it would be economic suicide. West Germany was the strongest economy in Europe and integrating East Germany (which was much more developed then N Korea) taxed their political, economic, and social structures nearly to the breaking point.

Both sides prop up N Korea to prevent the crisis which will ensue when or if it collapses.

Come to think of it, I'd say that there is *definitely* a higher level to secure freedom when a nation spends strictly on military mght as opposed to healthcare, Social Security, etc. But that's getting a bit too political I think for the terms of conditions to post here so I digress.

So, in your opinion, huge standing militaries make it less likely governments will oppress their people?

Nope, your making this all hyperbolic. A nation's freedom is based on what a nation's people chooses to do. This is true in Canada which is definitely more free than China but it has a great luxury of not having to spend billions ona military. The US would NEVER allow another nation to invade and conquor it. Ditto for Japan.

I am pretty sure no nation on earth has a standing policy of allowing other nations to invade and conquer it. Also, Japan spent more of its budget on the military in the 30s and 40s and they would have been invaded had they not surrendered. Spending money on military does not ensure security. I bet Nephite military spending was high when they decided to end the Lamanite threat permanently and they still lost. I am guessing Shiz and Coriantumr were not diverting the treasury to support the retired just before the final battle.

The Bill of Rights is a good place to start educating yourself.

http://www.archives...._of_rights.html

They help to avoid precisely the overbearing reach of a central government which we see in Japan, France, and the UK.

I would point out that most people with your ideas believe the United States lost its way. Was that back when the US Army had less then a hundred men in it like back in some periods of the 1800s? Or the 30s when our army was dwarfed by the army of Greece?

I think you have only a vague awareness of current geopolitical realities and a fairly vague grasp of history.

[Darren10]

I just noticed that the dude statue below does have a gun as well. It eve looks like something I used playing Medal of Honor (oh, the irony).

[volgadon]

The real question is whose big board is coolest.