Batgirlsmom Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 Well, I will repeat Article of Faith number nine: We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God. So, obviously there are an unspecified number of great and important things yet to be revealed. And, I realize that a Joseph Smith would not have a place in today's church. He would be an unschooled boy unthinkable that God would bestow His message upon - since God reveals His will only to the old, wise, and learned men. As far as salvation goes, we know of no other principles and ordinances that are missing as of yet. That is true. We have the truth that has been revealed to us which we accept. Further light and knowledge we have yet to receive. In reading a different thread on this site I was reminded of the scripture concerning the latter-day state of the church (to which Mormon speaks - speaking to us, its members): Mormon 8:35-39 - so I hesitate to ever cry "All is well in Zion!" We are promised that the truth that has been currently restored will not be removed from the earth again. But, that does not mean the majority of the church will always follow that truth. One may have the majority of the church hypothetically apostasize yet still have a small group who keep the truth on the earth.
Batgirlsmom Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 That is to say: We probably don't need a boy sent from God to tell us (the church) that we have gone astray, since we have Mormon telling us that we have.
pogi Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 (edited) Well, I will repeat Article of Faith number nine: We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God. So, obviously there are an unspecified number of great and important things yet to be revealed. No doubtAnd, I realize that a Joseph Smith would not have a place in today's church. He would be an unschooled boy unthinkable that God would bestow His message upon - since God reveals His will only to the old, wise, and learned men. God reveals his will and message to men, women, and children. God reveals his will for the entire church through the president only. Joseph Smith would most certainly have a place in todays church, but his previous role would no longer be needed. As far as salvation goes, we know of no other principles and ordinances that are missing as of yet. That is true. We have the truth that has been revealed to us which we accept. Further light and knowledge we have yet to receive. The "fullness of the gospel" has been restored. That means all of the principles and ordinances necessary for salvation. Any further truths that have not yet been revealed will not add to the saving principles and ordinances, but will be frosting on the cake. http://www.lds.org/t...gospel?lang=engThat is to say: We probably don't need a boy sent from God to tell us (the church) that we have gone astray, since we have Mormon telling us that we have.I don't know how you interpret that scripture to mean that the restored church will go astray in the last days."I say to Israel, the Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as president of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the program. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so he will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty. God bless you" (Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, pp. 212-13; see also Official Declaration 1). This has been included into the canon of the church in the Official Declaration 1. Edited December 31, 2012 by pogi 2
Darren10 Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 Who knows? Perhaps we actually all share the same Heavenly Mother and have multiple Heavenly Fathers - merely using the term "Heavenly Father" to apply to all of them. LoL!!!
Darren10 Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 I wonder how much knowledge of our Heavenly Mother has been lost over the many centuries and millenia by evil and conspiring men?None or right next to none.I wonder how the world would receive it if a 14 year old young woman had Christ and Heavenly Mother appear to her in a grove tomorrow to tell her that there were important portions of the Gospel that still were not restored?If Heavenly Mother appeared to restore eternal truths to anyone I'd consider the teachings of that person false.I wonder how men might take it if all the female aspects of the Gospel that had been lost were restored?They'd drink a beer, burp, and say...."OK". Then they'd go drink more beer.
Darren10 Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 I don't know if we would.... I suspect it would not be accepted in the LDS church. For that matter, if a 14-15 year old young man in some obscure ward were to step forward today claiming that Christ and Heavenly Father had appeared to him in the woods behind his house and had told him the church had gone horribly astray how might that go over? lol We don't accept the miraculous as we once did.Same as learning about Joseph Smith's account: follow the Holy Spirit and its promptings.
Darren10 Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 All things are not restored. Yes, they are, including living revelation, just like in times of old.And, it is hubris to believe we know everything that has yet to be restored and that it will always be revealed or restored in exactly the same manner.Policies, procedures, political structure, etc. may vary but the same eternal principles are followed in the restoration as in ancient times.Joseph Smith was quite a surprise to the Christian world - and his message was rejected precisely because it didn't come in the "correct" (from his timeperiod all the way back to Christ's timeperiod) manner: Through a well-trained theologian regarded as both wise and knowledgeable.Can't argue with that assuming Christ's time period includes the post apostolic era.
Darren10 Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 "I say to Israel, the Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as president of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the program. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so he will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty. God bless you" (Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, pp. 212-13; see also Official Declaration 1). This has been included into the canon of the church in the Official Declaration 1.AMEN!!!
bluebell Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 How God has revealed his word and will to the entire church to this point. All things are not restored. And, it is hubris to believe we know everything that has yet to be restored and that it will always be revealed or restored in exactly the same manner. Joseph Smith was quite a surprise to the Christian world - and his message was rejected precisely because it didn't come in the "correct" (from his timeperiod all the way back to Christ's timeperiod) manner: Through a well-trained theologian regarded as both wise and knowledgeable.It's not hubris, it's the only way to do so without creating havoc, which is probably why God set it up that way. 1
Damien the Leper Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 Yes, they are, including living revelation, just like in times of old.Now you sound evangelical. So if God were to reveal and restore more truths that are not already restored what would your reaction be? "La la la la la...I'm not listening!" Or would you be like those in 2 Nephi who were contending for sola scriptura? "All has been restored and nothing else need be restored?" Let God be the judge of that...
Damien the Leper Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 Darren,No disrespect but the way you have been posting in this thread makes it difficult to take anything you say seriously. I hope that this is not to be an ongoing pattern of behavior.
thesometimesaint Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 Darren10:I must have missed where Article of Faith #9 has been repealed. 1
Darren10 Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 (edited) Now you sound evangelical. So if God were to reveal and restore more truths that are not already restored what would your reaction be? "La la la la la...I'm not listening!" Or would you be like those in 2 Nephi who were contending for sola scriptura? "All has been restored and nothing else need be restored?" Let God be the judge of that...What are you talking about? Evangelicals don't believe in living revelation beyond than a spiritual witness that the Bible and the Bible alone is the only revealed word of God. Mormons don't believe in such a confining limitation of revelation. If the prophet revealed a truth than I'd accept it and if it did not settle right in me I'd take it to The Lord humbly for understanding. By and large I accept modern-day revelation from the Manifesto to the Proclamation to the World. I get a spiritual confirmation the momentI learn of it. Tree was one occasion when I did not agree with a revealed new Church policy but, as stated earlier, I took it humbly to The Lord for understanding and the matter has long since been settled inside me. The conflict was resolved and I saw great wisdom in the mentioned LDS policy. Where in the world did you come up with your conclusion that I sound like an Evangelical and would nonchalantly not listen to new revelation. Especially since you've long rejected not only the LDS Church but God Himself?Stop weirding out on me and I'll actually probably like your posts. Edited December 31, 2012 by Darren10 1
Darren10 Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 Darren,No disrespect but the way you have been posting in this thread makes it difficult to take anything you say seriously. I hope that this is not to be an ongoing pattern of behavior.OK, thanks.
Damien the Leper Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 What are you talking about? Evangelicals don't believe in living revelation beyond than a spiritual witness that the Bible and the Bible alone is the only revealed word of God. Mormons don't believe in such a confining limitation of revelation. If the prophet revealed a truth than I'd accept it and if it did not settle right in me I'd take it to The Lord humbly for understanding. By and large I accept modern-day revelation from the Manifesto to the Proclamation to the World. I get a spiritual confirmation the momentI learn of it. Tree was one occasion when I did not agree with a revealed new Church policy but, as stated earlier, I took it humbly to The Lord for understanding and the matter has long since been settled inside me. The conflict was resolved and I saw great wisdom in the mentioned LDS policy.Where in the world did you come up with your conclusion that I sound like an Evangelical and would nonchalantly not listen to new revelation. Especially since you've long rejected not only the LDS Church but God Himself?Stop wearing out on me and I'll actually probably like your posts.Read post #112 above and you'll get the point. I also don't care whether you like my posts.
Darren10 Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 Darren10:I must have missed where Article of Faith #9 has been repealed.Huh? Didn't I say that living revelation was restored, just like in times of old? Hold on a sec. Let me check............Why yes, yes I did: And what does the 9th Article of Faith? 9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.Why that sounds like living revelation to me. This does NOT obligate one to conclude that all things have not been restored, only that revelation may indeed come pertaining to the kingdom of God. Take the Proclamation to the World, for example. It teaches us no new doctrine, only a consolidation of what has already been revealed into a warning to the world. While the Proclamation is modern-day revelation, it's doctrines are not and still it is an important revelation pertaining to the kingdom of God.I think you and Valentinus need to start a new post about how wrong I am. You seem to be weirding out with him. No wonder he liked your post. ; > )
Damien the Leper Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 Nor does it obligate anyone to believe all things have been restored.
Darren10 Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 Read post #112 above and you'll get the point. I also don't care whether you like my posts.Read my 116. I don't care if you I don't like your posts either other than you should make them worthwhile readings. Especially if you're going to analyze my character.
Damien the Leper Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 (edited) Read my 116. I don't care if you I don't like your posts either other than you should make them worthwhile readings. Especially if you're going to analyze my character.And we 're done. I'm not going to dignify any more of your silliness. Take care. Edited December 31, 2012 by Valentinus
Darren10 Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 Nor does it obligate anyone to believe all things have been restored.Here:He said there was a abook deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the bfulness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants;http://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/js-h/1.34?lang=eng#33Sounds pretty clear to me. The fullness of the gospel was restored in part via the Book of Mormon. This does not mean that we know all things pertaining to the Kingdom of God but its fullness has been restored. All things of old are as they should be today. That's what a *restoration* is. Furthermore, a "restoration" does not exclude further additions which is what the Ninth Article of Faith teaches.
Darren10 Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 (edited) And we 're done. I'm not going to dignify any more of your silliness. Take care.Tchau Edited December 31, 2012 by Darren10
Damien the Leper Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 And the sealed portion? There's no evidence to suggest that what is in that portion has in any way been revealed. That is just silly.
Darren10 Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 What are you talking about? Evangelicals don't believe in living revelation beyond than a spiritual witness that the Bible and the Bible alone is the only revealed word of God. Mormons don't believe in such a confining limitation of revelation. If the prophet revealed a truth than I'd accept it and if it did not settle right in me I'd take it to The Lord humbly for understanding. By and large I accept modern-day revelation from the Manifesto to the Proclamation to the World. I get a spiritual confirmation the momentI learn of it. Tree was one occasion when I did not agree with a revealed new Church policy but, as stated earlier, I took it humbly to The Lord for understanding and the matter has long since been settled inside me. The conflict was resolved and I saw great wisdom in the mentioned LDS policy. Where in the world did you come up with your conclusion that I sound like an Evangelical and would nonchalantly not listen to new revelation. Especially since you've long rejected not only the LDS Church but God Himself?Stop weirding out on me and I'll actually probably like your posts.I really hate iPad auto correct.
Darren10 Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 And the sealed portion? There's no evidence to suggest that what is in that portion has in any way been revealed. That is just silly.If we needed it, it would have been given. But we don't as far as I can tell. I don't think any new doctrine would result in revealing the sealed portion. And if there's any portion which we need to do now as in times of old, there are other means to reveal it. That's in perfect harmony with the 9th Article of Faith.And while I'd love to learn of the content of the lost portion or sealed portion of the plates, there's no need to crave it especially since I'm not as faithful as I should be with the scriptures we do have. 1
Darren10 Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 Valentinus et al; The Book of Mormon is a volume of holy scripture comparable to the Bible. It is a record of God’s dealings with the ancient inhabitants of the Americas and contains the fulness of the everlasting gospel.http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/introduction?lang=engThat's from the Book of Mormon which has been translated from the gold plates. So much for needing the sealed or even lost portion of the plates.
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