Lds Gay Suicides

[Tacenda]

I don't know if this man's suicide has been mentioned on here before. But I posted it because the other day I had an argument with my husband who believes much the same as some posters on here that oppose SSM. I asked my husband this..."what if someone came to you and told you that you were never to love a woman, only a man and you are definitely not allowed to marry one, only a man. So what if that happened to you naysayers out there? Could any of you put yourself in their shoes for maybe...half a second?

http://www.advocate.com/news/daily-news/2012/03/23/gay-mormon-mans-suicide-points-tensions

When is it going to stop?

[Calm]

This is not to be unsympathetic to this man's situation or anyone who feels hopeless enough to commit suicide, but it is important to help to find out what the real cause of the suicide is.

My memory says that suicide numbers have not dropped for gays in countries where homosexual marriage is legal or the equivalent and where there is little discrimination against them. Nor have I ever read any numbers that indicate suicide is less among gays outside of the Church than inside. If so, it would seem that there is something else going on that contributes much more to suicidal thoughts and actions than the Church's position on homosexuality.

OTOH, it has been demonstrated that suicide is much less among active LDS than it is among nonactive and nonLDS so perhaps the Church is actually contributing to prevention.

Critics also ignore that religion is generally a protective factor against suicide; religions provide both social support for people who are struggling, and religious beliefs which condemn suicide can be a disincentive to acting on suicidal thoughts.[5] Studies of "high religious groups" (including LDS) have shown benefits for emotional maturity, self-esteem, and lower depression rates.[6]Studies of countries with high levels of religious belief have shown a correlation with lower rates of suicide.[7]

Some studies of LDS patients and non-LDS patients have shown no differences in the rate of suicidality based on being homemakers and working outside of the home.[8] Suicide rates in LDS patients went down as their religious involvement went up.[9] Inactive LDS males experience a suicide rate roughly four times that of active LDS males. Non-LDS males experience a suicide rate roughly six times that of active LDS males.[10] This same research shows that U.S. white males (aged 20-34) had suicide rates two and one-half to seven times that of active LDS males of equal age. Active LDS males, aged 15–19, have an equal suicide rate to that of national rates.[11]

http://en.fairmormon...e_among_Mormons

http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_gender_issues/Same-sex_attraction/Suicide

Edited November 12, 2012 by calmoriah

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I don't know if this man's suicide has been mentioned on here before. But I posted it because the other day I had an argument with my husband who believes much the same as some posters on here that oppose SSM. I asked my husband this..."what if someone came to you and told you that you were never to love a woman, only a man and you are definitely not allowed to marry one, only a man. So what if that happened to you naysayers out there? Could any of you put yourself in their shoes for maybe...half a second?

http://www.advocate....points-tensions

When is it going to stop?

I am not entirely sure what you just said.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

This is not to be unsympathetic to this man's situation or anyone who feels hopeless enough to commit suicide, but it is important to help to find out what the real cause of the suicide is.

My memory says that suicide numbers have not dropped for gays in countries where homosexual marriage is legal or the equivalent and where there is little discrimination against them. Nor have I ever read any numbers that indicate suicide is less among gays outside of the Church than inside. If so, it would seem that there is something else going on that contributes much more to suicidal thoughts and actions than the Church's position on homosexuality.

OTOH, it has been demonstrated that suicide is much less among active LDS than it is among nonactive and nonLDS so perhaps the Church is actually contributing to prevention.

http://en.fairmormon...e_among_Mormons

So is she saying that if we accepted SSM this guy would not have killed himself?

[Tacenda]

I am not entirely sure what you just said.

Me neither, lol. No, I was just putting it as in what we are asking the gays to do. In a shorter version, what if someone told you that you were to love the opposite of what your inborn instinct tells you to love.

[TAO]

Tacenda, not just someone. It'd have to be God himself, through his servants, the prophets. Luckily, he has said so. Thus, yes, that is what must be done; we must change ourselves from our usual selfs into reflections of how he wishes us to be. That is important... to change. No, not every part of us will change, but we must change what he asks us to.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Me neither, lol. No, I was just putting it as in what we are asking the gays to do. In a shorter version, what if someone told you that you were to love the opposite of what your inborn instinct tells you to love.

I would tell them to talk with a counselor.

[Calm]

Me neither, lol. No, I was just putting it as in what we are asking the gays to do. In a shorter version, what if someone told you that you were to love the opposite of what your inborn instinct tells you to love.

When is it going to stop?

Demanding action before one is even aware of what the underlying problems may be is as likely to lead to more problems as solutions. Emotional responses may feel good to the individual, but they dont generally accomplish anything---especially change---long term. Edited November 12, 2012 by calmoriah

[Tacenda]

Demanding action before one is even aware of what the underlying problems may be is as likely to lead to more problems as solutions. Emotional responses may feel good to the individual, but they dont generally accomplish anything---especially change---long term.

I believe a Christlike attitude will go along way in changing things. Putting ourselves in someone elses shoes. But maybe pushing marriage equality is going too far. I'm semi on the fence about it. Torn over it actually. I understand the desire they have to marry, it makes it more holy to them. It's a tough one. To put it lightly.

[Calm]

I believe a Christlike attitude will go along way in changing things.

Since we as Saints are commanded to have this attitude in all things, I am not sure of your point.

It's a tough one.

And thus should be approached with more than just off the cuff feel good demands and answers. Edited November 12, 2012 by calmoriah

[Tacenda]

This isn't off the cuff, it's pretty legitimate information concerning our gay LDS brothers and sisters.

http://www.affirmation.org/suicides/

or this is a transcript from a court case that shows alot of the feelings they have

Edited November 12, 2012 by Tacenda

[wenglund]

Emotional blackmail is not a solution to suicides of any sort. The solution, if there is any, is as Cal suggests--i.e. delve into the personal mental/emotional problems, working to fix them, and do something about the high risk factors if possible. I say this as someone who has had his heart broken a number of times, and who for various reasons wont be able to marry several loves of his life.

Please, stop using suicides inanely as a stick to beat proponents of traditional marriage over the head.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[altersteve]

Me neither, lol. No, I was just putting it as in what we are asking the gays to do. In a shorter version, what if someone told you that you were to love the opposite of what your inborn instinct tells you to love.

We do not tell people to love someone else, only that God has declared that homosexual behavior is immoral. Who they love is none of our business and is something only God can judge.

[Hamba Tuhan]

In a shorter version, what if someone told you that you were to love the opposite of what your inborn instinct tells you to love.

Isn't this the very definition of discipleship? I'm now thinking about all the things I used to love before I was converted to Christ. Then He told me to love their opposites. He did this because He wants me to be happy, and He has made the changes in me and my desires possible, though I'm still a work in progress. The one thing I'm sure of is that He's right: choosing to love the right things brings us happiness.

[Nemesis]

You know the rules, stop proselyting and have discussions instead.

Nemesis