Missionary Duty Vs Volunteering

[CV75]

Can missionary service be both a duty / responsibility and voluntary at the same time? That seems like a contradiction to me.

We voluntarily do our duty, just as we can voluntarily not. We vountarily accept responsibility, just as we can vountarily not. But we cannot voluntarily choose the consequences!

[Rob Osborn]

All things, all decisions must be based upon if is a "sin" and thus need repenting of, especially as it pertains to our own personal worthiness to receive and partake of the sacrament. It is thus not a "sin" to choose to not go on a mission. It is purely voluntary- something young men and women are "asked" to do. I am not aware of any personal or official revelation directly from God that commands young men and women that they must serve a mission.

There are some in the church that honestly believe it to be a great sin and thus place one in severe jeopardy of losing their salvation by choosing to not serve a mission. The same can be said of finding a potential future spouse outside of our religion.

[rongo]

Just so I/we can be clear on your stats, do you mean a third from total #'s claimed. 14million members, or are your stats based on the more realistic 5-6 million active members?

Can you please clarify your numbers and which basis they are from?

I mean roughly 1/3 of young men-turning mission age end up actually serving. The majority of young men currently do not go on missions. I'm not certain how many that actually is in numbers. It is based on statements that are frequently made and on my anecdotal experience. I would happily "amend my returns" if people have verifiable sources that are better than that.

[sdc999]

I mean roughly 1/3 of young men-turning mission age end up actually serving. The majority of young men currently do not go on missions. I'm not certain how many that actually is in numbers. It is based on statements that are frequently made and on my anecdotal experience. I would happily "amend my returns" if people have verifiable sources that are better than that.

The reason for asking is that close to 2/3 do not consider themselves active or maybe even members, although the church may. That would leave 1/3 active and thus, a high return on serving a mission. If it is shown that 2/3 of "active" kids choose not to serve, I think that would correlate to a better synopsis of no coersion; although I do not believe that to be the case. (My personal observation since I have seen college money held ransom and cars promised in exchange for serving).

[rongo]

I think you're correct that most of the 2/3 who don't go aren't very active. In fact, mission service might be an excellent determinant of how active a young man is.

[mfbukowski]

Can missionary service be both a duty / responsibility and voluntary at the same time? That seems like a contradiction to me.

No contradiction. Everything we do in the church is in that category. You get a calling and you voluntarily do your duty.

If you don't want to do it, you don't do it.

[KevinG]

I never put any expectations on my children so that when they are grown they never feel guilty or inadequate about accomplishing nothing.

(and yes that is a joke).

[KevinG]

No contradiction. Everything we do in the church is in that category. You get a calling and you voluntarily do your duty.

If you don't want to do it, you don't do it.

Even our membership in this covenant is entirely voluntary.

[Senator]

I hope people don't go on missions for social pressures as much as I hope they don't only keep the word of wisdom for social pressures.

The fact, is that many have, and still do serve missions due to social pressures. The social pressure in the church for young men to serve a mission is real.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Senator

[Saints Alive]

The fact, is that many have, and still do serve missions due to social pressures. The social pressure in the church for young men to serve a mission real.

without it I'd bet we'd see an even bigger drop in service

[Senator]

No contradiction. Everything we do in the church is in that category. You get a calling and you voluntarily do your duty.

Another way of saying it would be, 'You are expected to volunteer for duty'.

[Rob Osborn]

without it I'd bet we'd see an even bigger drop in service

I doubt it. I went to an alternative high school. The teachers told us straight up first day that we could come and go as we please- no parents would be called, no pressure, etc. Sure, there was that 5% that took that as a free pass to sluff and never come back but the other 95% of us pretty much came every day and were diligent on our own. The pressure in church to go to church every Sunday, serve a mission and get married to a mormon in a temple is overbearing! You dont want to know how many times I have been told I am gonna be damned because I didnt want to serve a mission, didnt attend church regularly and married outside the temple. My own son is following my same path. Yes its sad to see and I honestly believe its because the members tend to unduly pressure one into forced obedience. How many times I have been told that it is wrong for me to give my son the choice on attending church I cannot tell you. And yet we teach free will, agency, etc....

BTW, I have since been reactivated, go to church regularly and have been sealed to my family in the temple.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Rob Osborn

[mfbukowski]

Another way of saying it would be, 'You are expected to volunteer for duty'.

If you don't like it leave the church- it is all voluntary. Join some church where nothing is expected, like most of them. What's the big deal?

[mfbukowski]

Even our membership in this covenant is entirely voluntary.

Exactly!

[Senator]

If you don't like it leave the church- it is all voluntary. Join some church where nothing is expected, like most of them. What's the big deal?

Mmmm......of all the exhortations I heard over the past two days, this wasn't one of them.

By the way, even if I wanted to leave the church, I couldn't. I value and love my wife and kids, and our intact family status too much.

Where you really being serious with the, "What's the big deal" retort?

Edited October 8, 2012 by Senator

[Saints Alive]

mfbukowski:

Gosh, do even realize how bad that sounds? "you are expected to volunteer two years of your life, at your own expense, and if you don't like it you can leave the church" so much for having a choice to serve. It says nothing about those who truly believe in 99% of the church but haven't gained a testimony of missionary work. Are you honestly suggested it is better for them to leave the church? Are you so perfect? What is your flaw? I suggest you fix it or leave the church!

Edited October 8, 2012 by Saints Alive

[Senator]

mfbukowski:

Gosh, do even realize how bad that sounds? "you are expected to volunteer two years of your life, at your own expense, and if you don't like it you can leave the church" so much for having a choice to serve. It says nothing about those who truly believe in 99% of the church but haven't gained a testimony of missionary work. Are you honestly suggested it is better for them to leave the church? Are you so perfect? What is your flaw? I suggest you fix it or leave the church!

I think (hope) Mark was employing a bit of intentional exaggeration/sarcasm. Even so, you're right, it doesn't sound good.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Senator

[urroner]

If you don't like it leave the church- it is all voluntary. Join some church where nothing is expected, like most of them. What's the big deal?

Ecclesiastes 12:13

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

[sdc999]

If you don't like it leave the church- it is all voluntary. Join some church where nothing is expected, like most of them. What's the big deal?

Can you clarify, "most of them"? On the surface, that sounds like a very arrogant statement. Do you mean, those poor Baptists, they don't even clean their own bathrooms, or those methodist made sure that family was taken care of in their time of need but because they don't have a 'home teacher', they are beneath the LDS church.

[mfbukowski]

Touchy Touchy!

Sorry I didn't mean to offend anyone.

I am a convert and I have left churches before and I have joined churches before. I left because I didn't believe in them any more. I have been LDS now 30+ years and am sure I will never leave, but if God told me to leave I would in a heartbeat.

In a heartbeat.

If you have doubts why would you stay in a church you didn't believe in or work resentfully for something you were half-hearted about?? Life is too short.

If you love the church and love the work- do it. If you don't, don't. I don't for the life of me know why that is offensive or arrogant.

There is a reason I left the belief systems I have. It seems like this entire line of question is based on some child who is being forced to go on a mission. I suppose that could be a problem.

But if you are an adult, you do what you think is best for your life, not what someone else tells you to do. Why that view is "arrogant" I don't know for a minute.

Again if I offended anyone I am sorry. Time to leave the thread- I have said my piece.

I would never go on a mission or do anything because it is "expected". If anyone believes they should, that is their responsibility and they will be pushed around all of their lives because someone always has some "expectation" that may or may not match what you think is best. We need to grow up and kindly tell people that we have other plans, thank you for your advice, and I think another path is best for me.

Get some courage for pete's sake and stand up for yourself.

Edited October 8, 2012 by mfbukowski

[KevinG]

The fact, is that many have, and still do serve missions due to social pressures. The social pressure in the church for young men to serve a mission is real.

without it I'd bet we'd see an even bigger drop in service

Sounds like a family dysfunction to me. If we dropped those who went on missions unprepared or unworthy because of social pressure we would have fewer unsuccessful missionaries and more successful missions.

http://www.ldschurch...-standards.html

[urroner]

Can you clarify, "most of them"? On the surface, that sounds like a very arrogant statement. Do you mean, those poor Baptists, they don't even clean their own bathrooms, or those methodist made sure that family was taken care of in their time of need but because they don't have a 'home teacher', they are beneath the LDS church.

I live in the South and most of the active non0LDS Christians I know don't have very much to do with their church group other than on Sundays. Of course, I know many Mormons who fall it that category also. Of course, these other churches do pull in groups occasionally to do service projects, but when it comes to doing the weekly/daily stuff, I know that several of them that get paid. I don't know how true this is for most denominations down here. I do know that in the biggest local Southern Baptist church in town, the organists, pianists, choir directors, and choir members all get paid, though I don't know how much it they get paid.

But, my neighbor, when she was going through a difficult time, some local church came in and helped her fix up her house and they didn't ask for anything in return.

[KevinG]

Touchy Touchy!

Sorry I didn't mean to offend anyone.

I am a convert and I have left churches before and I have joined churches before. I left because I didn't believe in them any more. I have been LDS now 30+ years and am sure I will never leave, but if God told me to leave I would in a heartbeat.

In a heartbeat.

Seconded. I have little empathy or patience for those who profess belief for appearance sake. Critics and adherents alike.

Going along for appearance sake makes for poor discipleship.

[Senator]

If you have doubts why would you stay in a church you didn't believe in or work resentfully for something you were half-hearted about?? Life is too short.

It's not that simple for some. I gave you my reason. Is it not reasonable, or at least respectable?

I would never go on a mission or do anything because it is "expected". If anyone believes they should, that is their responsibility and they will be pushed around all of their lives because someone always has some "expectation" that may or may not match what you think is best. We need to grow up and kindly tell people that we have other plans, thank you for your advice, and I think another path is best for me.

Get some courage for pete's sake and stand up for yourself.

Wonderful, I do hope you've preached that to all the young men under your stewardship; using those exact words!

[Senator]

Sounds like a family dysfunction to me.

And a religious cultural dysfuntion.

If we dropped those who went on missions unprepared or unworthy because of social pressure we would have fewer unsuccessful missionaries and more successful missions.

agreed