Missionary Duty Vs Volunteering

[Saints Alive]

Seconded. I have little empathy or patience for those who profess belief for appearance sake. Critics and adherents alike.

Going along for appearance sake makes for poor discipleship.

Then don't you see how the current situation of "encouragement" causes this exact phenomenon? I would wager near 40 - 50% of young men who go on missions simply go because it is both a family and social expectation. If we didn't talk about missions in terms like "the best years of my life" "a priesthood obligation" and "only marry return missionaries" or "young men who go on missions mature so much more than those who dont" I doubt we would have the number of missionaries we do. I just don't think there are as many young men that go on missions because it is, what good Saints do, as you seem to infer.

[mfbukowski]

I never pushed anyone to be a missionary- in fact if they were not sure, I would tell them to wait, and work with them to get a testimony.

I didn't even push my kids to get baptized or go on missions- I worked with them to gain testimonies. In fact I counseled them that these were "big decisions" and only to take them on if they were ready, and they all did.

"A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still".

You want a missionary that will come home before finishing her mission? Make her go against her will.

Teach them good principles and then let them govern themselves. If you want a rebellious teenager, restrict them. If you want a teenager who is not rebellious, teach them what consequences will happen if they don't let them follow the gospel, and if they are stupid enough to not believe you, you must let them find out for themselves. I would tell my kids what would happen if they followed stupid courses of action, and when they did anyway, they found out I was right, so they didn't have to rebel on the big stuff. They saw the consequences I predicted with their friends who did things differently and they saw I was right about drinking etc. They saw the consequences of broken homes and drug use. They saw the consequences of teenage pregnancy and contrasted it with the peace and calm of their lives, and followed the right path-- because I showed them the consequences when they arose in their friends. I would explain to them what happens when you go down the wrong path, but always told them that life was open to them if they wanted it. Of course they never wanted it.

And for those who do go down that path, we must not give up hope. Those who don't follow the commandments will find out for themselves what a rotten life that leads to.

They will find out for themselves, (like I did) and they will be back. That is what this life is for- to learn by consequences what does NOT work, so eventually we will experience for ourselves what does work.

I've seen both sides, and nobody has to tell me anything about what works and what does not work in life. I know from first hand experience.

So if the gospel is not working for you in every detail- no one is forcing you to follow a single principle. Prove each principle for yourselves so you know it's true. Don't take anybody's word for anything- learn it for yourself the hard way if you have to- but learn it

The gospel is true. You can learn it the hard way, or the easy way- and not have to go through all that rotten stuff. But if you are bone-headed and stubborn like me- go ahead and learn it the hard way. You will be back. And if not, find what works for you. Everyone must follow their conscience- that is what agency is for.

Now I really will shut up!

[KevinG]

I encourage my young men and women to be worthy to serve missions. Beyond that it is up to them to see if they are called by the Lord to go on a mission. I have a friend whose two sons joined the Marines because they were intelligent and worthy young men, not in spite of it. I told him what impressive men they are.

What is the "situation of encouragement"? It isn't the prophet who says the mission is not a rite of passage but something that a young man needs to be worthy of even if it takes time.

I cannot control what sister busybody says all young men in church should do. I can let my own kids know (and I have) that their personal repentance process and honesty with the Lord is much more important than public appearance. I consoled my son who came home early* because of a mistake and insured him that being honest in his repentance process has him further along to the path of exaltation than anyone who served a mission dishonestly because they hid a sin to appear worthy.

Someone find me a talk or policy in church that encourages someone to serve the moment they are of age regardless of worthiness. Then we can criticize the church culture and not project family and ward weaknesses upon the prophets inspired decisions.

*he still talks about his missionary service today and we have his framed mission plaque on the wall proudly displayed. It was great preparation for his Army service where he taught several fellows the missionary lessons in Basic Training.

Edited October 8, 2012 by KevinG

[Senator]

I never pushed anyone to be a missionary- in fact if they were not sure, I would tell them to wait, and work with them to get a testimony.

I didn't even push my kids to get baptized or go on missions- I worked with them to gain testimonies. In fact I counseled them that these were "big decisions" and only to take them on if they were ready, and they all did.

"A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still".

You want a missionary that will come home before finishing her mission? Make her go against her will.

Teach them good principles and then let them govern themselves. If you want a rebellious teenager, restrict them. If you want a teenager who is not rebellious, teach them what consequences will happen if they don't let them follow the gospel, and if they are stupid enough to not believe you, you must let them find out for themselves. I would tell my kids what would happen if they followed stupid courses of action, and when they did anyway, they found out I was right, so they didn't have to rebel on the big stuff. They saw the consequences I predicted with their friends who did things differently and they saw I was right about drinking etc. They saw the consequences of broken homes and drug use. They saw the consequences of teenage pregnancy and contrasted it with the peace and calm of their lives, and followed the right path-- because I showed them the consequences when they arose in their friends. I would explain to them what happens when you go down the wrong path, but always told them that life was open to them if they wanted it. Of course they never wanted it.

And for those who do go down that path, we must not give up hope. Those who don't follow the commandments will find out for themselves what a rotten life that leads to.

They will find out for themselves, (like I did) and they will be back. That is what this life is for- to learn by consequences what does NOT work, so eventually we will experience for ourselves what does work.

I've seen both sides, and nobody has to tell me anything about what works and what does not work in life. I know from first hand experience.

So if the gospel is not working for you in every detail- no one is forcing you to follow a single principle. Prove each principle for yourselves so you know it's true. Don't take anybody's word for anything- learn it for yourself the hard way if you have to- but learn it

The gospel is true. You can learn it the hard way, or the easy way- and not have to go through all that rotten stuff. But if you are bone-headed and stubborn like me- go ahead and learn it the hard way. You will be back. And if not, find what works for you. Everyone must follow their conscience- that is what agency is for.

Now I really will shut up!

Well expressed, and am in agreement with it all. I too have adopted a more pragmatic approach to testimomy and faith.

[rongo]

I never pushed anyone to be a missionary- in fact if they were not sure, I would tell them to wait, and work with them to get a testimony.

This is my experience, too. Those who needed to be coaxed, cajoled, pleaded with, etc. to get ready for and to serve missions are going to be nothing but trouble to themselves and to those responsible for them on their mission, if you ever succeed in getting them to go.

I had a young man with a lot of problems whose mother was desperately trying to get him to commit to a mission. It gave him psychological leverage over her, and he only ever conceded enough to offer scant enouragement, but to keep the balance of power over her. There is a lot more to the background and his nature and behavior than this.

I only had one talk with him his senior year, and that was to tell him that this was the only and last time I would bring up mission preparation. I told him that he knew what was right and what he needed to do, and I wasn't going to play the fool like those he was stringing along (not in those words, but along those lines). I told him that a mission, rightly and worthily approached and carried out, would be one of the greatest blessings in his life, and that he knew this, but that this would be the extent of my exhortation with him. And it was ---- and he has continued on the life-path and trajectory he was heading towards all along.

There are a lot of good statements from the Brethren in Journal of Discourses about the folly of trying to "drive" people to do what is right or what they know they should do. Here are a few from one of my JoD commentaries (in progress):

"If you undertake to drive people into heaven, you will have a job on hand. I would just as soon undertake to drive an antelope into Emigration Kanyon. If we cannot lead them there, we cannot get them there at all; and if we should happen to drive a few through the gate, we should have to stand there with clubs in order to keep them there; for I can assure you that heaven is no place for any one who has to be driven in order to get him there . . . I want to know if you ever heard anything from the Prophets of God about driving people into heaven. Did they ever teach you a doctrine of this kind? (John Young, April 8, 1857. Journal of Discourses 6:234)

"I have learned one thing to a demonstration since I became a member of this Church, that if a man is determined to be damned, nothing can hinder it. I have argued with men for hours, for weeks, for months, and for years, to prevail on them to serve the Lord; but my labors have generally been spent in vain on persons who needed so much persuasion to do good." (Heber C. Kimball, April 6, 1854. Journal of Discourses 6:323-324)

"I am not going to drive a man or a woman to heaven. A great many think that they will be able to flog people into heaven, but this can never be done . . . People are not to be driven, and you can put into a gnat's eye all the souls of the children of men that are driven into heaven by preaching . . ." (Brigham Young, February 17, 1861. Journal of Discourses 9:123-124)

[KevinG]

This is my experience, too. Those who needed to be coaxed, cajoled, pleaded with, etc. to get ready for and to serve missions are going to be nothing but trouble to themselves and to those responsible for them on their mission, if you ever succeed in getting them to go.

I hate supervising Boy Scouts who were coerced into summer camp. I cannot imagine how difficult it is to be a Mission President with a reluctant or disengaged Missionary under his care for 2 years.

A lot of dysfunctional parenting or ward leadership could be solved if the leaders asked themselves "am I doing this for the growth and eventual exaltation of the child/missionary/member or am I doing it because it makes us look better/is expected of us?"

Edited October 9, 2012 by KevinG

[Walden]

Missionary work is to volunteering as tithing is to charity.

[volgadon]

Missionary work is to volunteering as tithing is to charity.

As post #57 is to a reasoned discussion.