Don Bradley'S Fair Presentation: What Are The Ashera And Nehushtan Parallels?

[USU78]

So was the sword of Goliath.

Yup: 1 Sam 21:9 . . . David receives Goliath's sword from Ahimelech the Cohen, which had been kept in the Sanctuary [then residing in Nod] behind the ephod.

[Bill Hamblin]

Yup: 1 Sam 21:9 . . . David receives Goliath's sword from Ahimelech the Cohen, which had been kept in the Sanctuary [then residing in Nod] behind the ephod.

And Ahimelech the Cohen means "the [High?] Priest, the brother of the king," an interesting parallel to Jacob's status.

[Bill Hamblin]

As has already repeatedly been pointed out, there are a number of studies which establish the temple context of the Book of Mormon, almost all available for free online. The critics have obviously not bothered to read them, let alone respond to them. A fatuous wave of the hand is apparently considered sufficient response in some circles.

John W. Welch, Illuminating the Sermon at the Temple and the Sermon on the Mount (Provo, UT: FARMS, 1999) http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/books/?bookid=113&chapid=

Welch, Third Nephi as Holy of Holies

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/jbms/?vol=19&num=1&id=508

Welch, Benjamin’s Speech

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/books/?bookid=31&chapid=119

John Tvedtnes, "King Benjamin and the Feast of Tabernacles,"

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/books/?bookid=109&chapid=1259

Christensen, BOM and Barker

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/books/?bookid=2&chapid=35

David Bokovoy, "Temple Imagery in the Book of Mormon," 4-part BYU Education Week lectures, Aug 16 - 19, 2011.

David Bokovoy, "Divine Council Imagery in the Book of Mormon," BYU Education Week lecture, Aug 17, 2012.

David Bokovoy, "'Thou Knowest That I Believe': Invoking the Spirit of the Lord as Council Witness in 1 Nephi 11," Interpreter, 1/1 (2012), 1-23, online at http://www.mormonint...that-i-believe/ .

David John Butler, Plain and Precious Things: The Temple Religion of the Book of Mormon, eBook (Amazon Digital Services, 2012).

http://www.amazon.com/Plain-Precious-Things-Religion-Visionary/dp/147816736X/

Joseph Spencer, An Other Testament: On Typology (Salem, OR: Salt Press, 2012), 42-57.

http://www.amazon.com/Other-Testament-Typology-Spencer-Joseph/dp/0983963622/

William Hamblin, “Jacob and the Day of Atonement”

David Bokovoy –

[ANACO]

Let us all worship Asherah, in- the-pleasant-groves,

Out in Utah in the forest with, our-camping-stoves.

And after carving her figure, on-the-trees,

FAIRLDS members bow to her, on-their-knees!

Yes, during the Summer 2012 Annual FAIRLDS Conference, all in attendance sang the “Songs of Solomon” to Asherah!

Asherah! The most glorious creature in the world!

Cause-we-make-money-and-fame-writing-articles-about-her!!

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

I'm probably the most vocal proponent for recognizing a place in our religion for Asherah/Lady Wisdom on this board, and I have yet to make a single penny off my writing. (Besides, I've never been to Utah, let alone a FAIR conference.) I wish you well in your attempt to shut down discussion through ridicule rather than reasoned discourse.

For anyone who's interested in an actual evidence-based conversation about the possibility that Asherah is a legitimate aspect of our worship which could easily -- easily! -- be incorporated into our Church (which already believes in a Prophet who prayed for Wisdom in a Sacred Grove, received scriptures with a heavy emphasis on the Tree of Life/Spirit of Wisdom being excluded from the Great and Spacious Building of the Temple at exactly the same time period that numerous scholars have recognized as pivotal for the Reforms, and restored the use of multiple Temples in which the Hieros Gamos is enacted in accordance with the good pattern made by a Father-God married to a Mother-Goddess), I recommend such interesting perspectives as:

A Mother There: A Survey Of Historical Teachings About Mother In Heaven by David L. Paulsen and Martin Pulido

Nephi And His Asherah by Daniel C. Peterson

Where Shall Wisdom Be Found? by Margaret Barker

What Did King Josiah Reform? by Margaret Barker (presented at BYU)

The Images Of Mary In The Litany Of Loreto by Margaret Barker

Nephite Feminism Revisited by Shauna and Kevin Christensen

Kevin Christensen On The Scholarship Of Margaret Barker

Does God Have A Wife? by Alyson Skabelund Von Feldt

The Assyrian Tree Of Life: Tracing The Origins Of Jewish Monotheism And Greek Philosophy by Simo Parpola

Shadday As A Goddess Epithet [For Asherah] by Harriet Lutzky

How To Worship Our Mother In Heaven (Without Getting Excommunicated) by Kevin L. Barney

Asherah, The Tree Of Life, And The Menorah: Continuity Of A Goddess Symbol In Judaism? by Asphodel P. Long

The Deseret Connection by Hugh W. Nibley (plus a whole bunch of stuff from his last -- amazing -- book One Eternal Round)

The Sacred Tree Of The Ancient Maya by Allen J. Christensen

Did God Have A Wife? by William G. Dever

The Hebrew Goddess by Raphael Patai

It's also good to recall the scriptures which teach that:

Lady Wisdom is a Tree of Life to them that lay hold upon Her; in the Book of Revelation, in the midst of the street, and on either side of the river, was there the Tree of Life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded Her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

As W. W. Phelps wrote to William Smith on December 25, 1844:

"O Mormonism! Thy Father is God, thy Mother is the Queen of Heaven, and so thy whole history, from eternity to eternity, is the laws, ordinances and truth of the Gods-- embracing the simple plan of salvation, sanctification, death, resurrection, glorification and exaltation of man, from infancy to age, from age to eternity, from simplicity to sublimity: from faith, repentance, baptism, reception of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of the hands, to washing, anointing, presence of angels, the general assembly and church of the first born; to the unspeakable glory of seeing God and the Lamb, and to spirits of just men, made perfect, and to be ordained unto eternal life!"

Truth is reason; truth eternal tells me I've a Mother there, and we are, after all, supposed to honor our Father and Mother.

When I leave this frail existence,

When I lay this mortal by,

Father, Mother, may I meet you

In your royal courts on high?

Then, at length, when I’ve completed

All you sent me forth to do,

With your mutual approbation

Let me come and dwell with you.

(There's also the other Queen of Heaven hymn, which is less often referred to -- Phelps' A Voice From The Prophet: Come To Me: "Here’s the myst’ry that man hath not seen; here’s our Father in heaven, and Mother, the Queen; here are worlds that have been, and the worlds yet to be; here’s eternity, endless, amen: Come to me.")

Honestly, I don't understand why we get so embarrassed so often and try hide the Light of the Queen of Heaven (symbolized by the Menorah?) under a bushel. As a convert, I can say that the Great Mother is a feature of Mormonism, not a bug, and I never hear of a man being damned for believing too much.

Edited September 30, 2012 by JeremyOrbe-Smith

[Nathair/|\]

I'm probably the most vocal proponent for recognizing a place in our religion for Asherah/Lady Wisdom on this board, and I have yet to make a single penny off my writing. I wish you well in your attempt to shut down discussion through ridicule rather than reasoned discourse.

For anyone who's interested in an actual evidence-based conversation about the possibility that Asherah is a legitimate aspect of our worship which could easily -- easily! -- be incorporated into our Church (which already believes in a Prophet who prayed for Wisdom in a Sacred Grove, received scriptures with a heavy emphasis on the Tree of Life/Spirit of Wisdom being excluded from the Great and Spacious Building of the Temple at exactly the same time period that numerous scholars have recognized as pivotal for the Reforms, and restored the use of multiple Temples in which the Hieros Gamos is enacted in accordance with the good pattern made by a Father-God married to a Mother-Goddess), I recommend such interesting perspectives as:

A Mother There: A Survey Of Historical Teachings About Mother In Heaven by David L. Paulsen and Martin Pulido

Nephi And His Asherah by Daniel C. Peterson

Where Shall Wisdom Be Found? by Margaret Barker

What Did King Josiah Reform? by Margaret Barker (presented at BYU)

The Images Of Mary In The Litany Of Loreto by Margaret Barker

Nephite Feminism Revisited by Shauna and Kevin Christensen

Kevin Christensen On The Scholarship Of Margaret Barker

Does God Have A Wife? by Alyson Skabelund Von Feldt

The Assyrian Tree Of Life: Tracing The Origins Of Jewish Monotheism And Greek Philosophy by Simo Parpola

Shadday As A Goddess Epithet [For Asherah] by Harriet Lutzky

How To Worship Our Mother In Heaven (Without Getting Excommunicated) by Kevin L. Barney

Asherah, The Tree Of Life, And The Menorah: Continuity Of A Goddess Symbol In Judaism? by Asphodel P. Long

The Deseret Connection by Hugh W. Nibley (plus a whole bunch of stuff from his last -- amazing -- book One Eternal Round)

The Sacred Tree Of The Ancient Maya by Allen J. Christensen

Did God Have A Wife? by William G. Dever

The Hebrew Goddess by Raphael Patai

It's also good to recall the scriptures which teach that:

Lady Wisdom is a Tree of Life to them that lay hold upon Her; in the Book of Revelation, in the midst of the street, and on either side of the river, was there the Tree of Life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded Her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

As W. W. Phelps wrote to William Smith on December 25, 1844:

Truth is reason; truth eternal tells me I've a Mother there, and we are, after all, supposed to honor our Father and Mother.

(There's also the other Queen of Heaven hymn, which is less often referred to -- Phelps' A Voice From The Prophet: Come To Me: "Here’s the myst’ry that man hath not seen; here’s our Father in heaven, and Mother, the Queen; here are worlds that have been, and the worlds yet to be; here’s eternity, endless, amen: Come to me.")

Honestly, I don't understand why we get so embarrassed so often and try hide the Light of the Queen of Heaven (symbolized by the Menorah?) under a bushel. As a convert, I can say that the Great Mother is a feature of Mormonism, not a bug, and I never hear of a man being damned for believing too much.

I, for one would love to hear more discussion of HM/Asherah/Queen of Heaven. As far as I can tell, the only reason we don't is that the Saints aren't ready for it. (Of course, as a Druid-in-training, I'd also like to see more discussion of the goddess in Moses 7:48. And more trees.)

Yours under the sacred oaks,

Nathair /|\

[Bill Hamblin]

Margaret Barker has a new book coming out in the next month or two related to the topic.

http://www.amazon.com/Mother-Lord-Margaret-Barker/dp/0567528154/

[Bill Hamblin]

I think there are some important things to remember.

1- There is simply no doubt that many ancient Israelites worshipped Asherah, or some other form of Mother goddess ("Queen of Heaven") as a consort of YHWH (not as a foreign pagan deity, but as an Israelite goddess). (On the other hand, Asherah was also worshipped by the Canaanites.) This is confirmed by both archaeology, inscriptions, and the Bible itself.

2- There was an ongoing sectarian debate within Israelite religion about the legitimacy of this veneration, but throughout most of Israelite history most Israelite kings and people worshipped a mother goddess. Goddess worship was the majority view of most Israelite. position. This worship began at least with Solomon (1 Kgs. 11:1-8, esp. 5), and continued into the exilic period (Jer. 44:17-19).

3- As far as I can tell, none of the prophets ever approved of goddess worship; the editors of the final version of the Bible clearly were of the YHWH-alone sect of Israelite religion, which became the majority view only after the return from exile. On the other hand, Israelite syncretism continued in various ways into the first century AD. (e.g. Philo's syncretism of YHWH with the philosophical monism of Plato.)

4- There is no compelling reason to equate the Israelite Asherah/Mother with the LDS concept of Mother in Heaven. On the other hand, such an equation is not necessarily impossible either. It should be remembered, in this regard, that it appears that the Israelite cult of Asherah involved cultic prostitution.

5- "Wisdom" (hÄkmÄh) in scripture is not necessarily a hypostatic divine figure rather than an abstraction. There is no reason to see biblical Wisdom as necessarily a goddess because the noun is grammatically feminine. Christ in the NT is called the Wisdom of God, using a feminine Greek noun sophia (1 Cor. 1:24), the straightforward equivalent of the Hebrew hÄkmÄh. (Hagia Sophia--Holy Wisdom, the great Byzantine church in Istanbul was dedicated to Christ.)

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

Margaret Barker has a new book coming out in the next month or two related to the topic.

http://www.amazon.co.../dp/0567528154/

Zomg. I wants it. I needs it. Thanks for the heads-up!

...

I also think it's extremely important to separate the perversion of a doctrine/practice from whether or not the original version had merit. That is, Jeremiah can be very much against the insincere Temple rituals and insincere baking of cakes to the Queen of Heaven, but this is actually strong evidence that he was very much in favor of true Temple practices and true worship of the Queen (I think Dever, for one, simply reads Jeremiah wrong). The Lafferty brothers can claim that God told them to go on their little killing spree, but that doesn't mean He really did; on the other hand, it's not an argument against the existence of a loving God to simply point to the fundamentalist extremists who will inevitably latch on to whatever story is at hand to try to justify their own sins. By the same token, pointing to sins committed in the name of Asherah is not evidence that Asherah-worship is inherently sinful.

It's important to keep the timeline in mind and remember that Asherah was El's consort before El was later conflated with Yahweh and Asherah was subsumed under Yahwistic worship until She was excised altogether -- she certainly wasn't a "foreign contamination" from Solomon's Phoenician wives or whatever as some have argued (Patai, for instance, if I am remembering correctly). But even that objection is somewhat beside the point; if all the world has had the gospel, then we should find more and commonalities and resemblances between religions the further back in time we go; we should find less and less distinction between tribes.

(Frankly, I think the entire issue of "paganism" -- a word not mentioned in the Hebrew Bible a single time -- is a misleading red-herring imported in from later concerns about Christian "uniqueness" after the Apostasy, when guys like Tertullian and Augustine started using Roman military imagery to describe the Army of God, etc., with paganus being the incompetent rural soldier. It's almost always used as a pejorative, and I think distracts from what I'd see as the legitimate issues. While the editors of the Bible had a negative view of the Canaanites, it doesn't mean that the Canaanites didn't have truth. There should be no shock-factor about noting that Asherah was held in common between the tribes; as Nibley noted in the Expanding Gospel, the Divine Council was downplayed in later theology.)

I think the later conflation of all aspects of Lady Wisdom to Christ was clearly a reaction to the tension between the attractiveness to fashionable philosophical monotheism and the underlying need to harmonize the inherently non-monotheistic Christian faith. I think the usual objection from 1 Corinthians is ambiguous; in much the same way that Ma'at was known for "fusing" with others as a representation of divine Order and Law, I think Wisdom/hokhmah/Sophia can be applied to others, specifically Christ.

That is, if Lady Wisdom is the Tree of Life, then to be Anointed with life-giving Olive Oil is to take upon the Vision She brings of the Son. The symbolism is all intertwined, but it's centered on Wisdom as a Priestly archetype. Nibley has a fantastic section on this in the Message of the Joseph Smith Papyri. (I would also hasten to note that continuing on, in 1 Corinthians 1:30, it states that "Of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us Wisdom. [Emphasis added.] That is, Christ is made a representative of God the Father and Lady Wisdom to His followers. "He hath abounded toward us in all Wisdom and prudence," "that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the Spirit of Wisdom and Revelation," for "the Lord by Wisdom hath founded the earth.")

I think there's simply too much evidence that there was a feminine component to the entire thing. In the creation narratives, the Spirit broods over the waters; some people read Asherah's name itself as being 'She Who Treads On The Sea', which would be analogous to the Mediterranean Goddesses like Aphrodite (possibly from Aphros, the Foam). She was represented with a Bird-Face, a common Goddess motif echoed in the Dove of the Holy Spirit of Wisdom. Asherah was a stylized Tree, which of course brings to mind the Menorah bearing the Light of the Anointed One to be born into the world as the only light in the Tabernacle.

(And of course, this brings in the cross-cultural evidence that the Goddess was connected to the eternal Fire, the Hearth, which might be cognate with Hestia/Vesta. It's also unfortunate that epithets so often get mistaken for proper names, as in the case of the The Mother/Da-Mater/Demeter.) If the feminine translation of Shadday is privileged ("One Of The Breast") then many passages in Genesis are considerably clarified. ("By the Almighty [ie, Shaddai], who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb." Abraham planting his little sacred groves, etc.)

In the New Testament, Wisdom is repeatedly said to be justified of Her Children. When Christ came to His own country to teach in the synagogue, the people were astonished and asked "whence hath this man this Wisdom?" John went with the power of the Spirit to turn the hearts of the disobedient to the Wisdom of the just. The Wisdom of God said "I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute." In Acts, it is said to "look ye out among you seven men [seven being a common sacred Goddess number, as in the Seven Hathors] of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and Wisdom"; also in Acts it is said that Moses was learned in all the Wisdom of the Egyptians -- ie, Ma'at.

Christ and the Apostles are constantly preaching in favor of the Wisdom of the World Above as opposed to the Strange Woman, the Wisdom of this world. "My speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s Wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power." Note the immediate juxtaposition of "man's Wisdom" with the true Spirit of Wisdom. "The Wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy." This is itself a motif which figures very strongly in the Book of Mormon and the Pearl of Great Price, both of which contain a plethora of Tree/Goddess/Vision/Fire/Holy-Spirit-Of-Wisdom/Rebirth motifs. ("We speak the Wisdom of God in a Mystery [a Temple reference, a Mysterion for those who have been initiated?], even the hidden Wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory.")

Even the Word of Wisdom is plainly a reference to the Wisdom of the Proverbs, Jeremiah, Ecclesiastes, Job, etc.; "To one is given by the Spirit the word of Wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit." In the Gospel to the Hebrews it is said that "Even so did my mother, the Holy Spirit, take me by one of my hairs and carry me away to the great mountain Tabor," which makes perfect sense for Christ to say, if Lady Wisdom/The Spirit of Wisdom was, in fact, a Mother Goddess, ie., a restatement of Asherah's relationship to Yahweh.

The point is, while a grammatical gender is certainly not definitive "proof" of a feminine deity, it certainly doesn't preclude it. And if we look at the entire complex of symbolism, then while parakletos and spiritus are grammatically masculine and pneuma is a neuter noun, the fact that ruach, the Hebrew 'Spirit', is feminine seems to point to the possibility that John was simply translated wrong in the Latin. Christ was offering a renewal of Wisdom's Light, a Restoration of the Tree which had been excised from the Great and Spacious Building of the Temple. "Walk in Wisdom toward them that are without, redeeming the time." "If any of you lack Wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him." "Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost." Breath = Wind = Ruach (= Sensen = Book of Breathings, a passport to be reborn -- certainly a feminine office -- in a new world?)

...

On a tangential note, I'm reminded of the movie The Fountain, which all LDS folks ought to see. Along with the Tree of Life, of course.

[media=]

Edited September 30, 2012 by JeremyOrbe-Smith

[Bob Crockett]

If, as you hold, we should seek our understanding of scripture and doctrine from General Authorities, then here we have a clear statement from the founder of this dispensation that it is our doctrine, one of our very defining principles, to receive truth from any and all sources. The sort of tunnel vision in our search for truth that you propound is, on Joseph Smith's standard, anti-Mormon

We should not twist the mandate to hold on to every good thing into a desire to spend our days doing little else but to hear or tell some new thing which contravenes the essence of the Restored Gospel and the teachings of the Brethren. In the main, and to an overwhelming degree, an acceptable new thing which directly contravenes the text of the Bible comes about through revelation, and not from the scholar who treats the unlearned as unworthy ("anti-Mormon") to endure modern Gnosticism.

You cite from many statements of the Brethren for the general proposition that knowledge is a good thing. However, generalia specialibus non derogat, meaning a specific proposition is not to be derogated by a general one. In the case of the proposition that the reforms of Jeremiah removed from the temple the detestable and sinful cult of Asherah, I have the statements of the Brethren and current statements of lds.org publications. There have been specific teachings.

Given further the Church's known hostility to worshipping the divine feminine, I would then remark that following Dever and Barker down into this particular hole is to no better than Toscano and Sonia Johnson.

Edited September 30, 2012 by Bob Crockett

[volgadon]

And, speaking of conflation, the Alma 37 citation above had more to do with the Liahona and its parallel function with the Nehushtan, rather than the Torah/Brass Plates. Yet the conflation is definitely there, as you mention: Torah and Nehushtan/Christ and Nehushtan/Liahona and Nehushtan/Liahona and Christ: all conflated and cross-referenced by Alma for Helaman's benefit. And ours.

As I just realised, I didn't make it particularly clear that the Law was a symbol of life.

[USU78]

And Ahimelech the Cohen means "the [High?] Priest, the brother of the king," an interesting parallel to Jacob's status.

I thank you. And Mahonri thanks you!

[Hestia]

I have removed Bob Crockett from the discussion so the discussion can continue without getting sidetracked.

[USU78]

Thank you, Hestia. BTW? I did not request the banning, though I was frustrated by the refusal to engage the actual OP topic.

Perhaps we can now proceed to have an actual conversation?

[Nathair/|\]

Well, USU78, suppose you were my bishop and I told you I wanted to develop a mentor/student type relationship with Asherah, giving her the kind of respect I give you as my bishop or one of my college professors. What would you tell me?

Anyone else feel free to weigh in.

Yours under the heretical oaks,

Nathair /|\

Edited October 3, 2012 by Nathair

[urroner]

Well, USU78, suppose you were my bishop and I told you I wanted to develop a mentor/student type relationship with Asherah, giving her the kind of respect I give you as my bishop or one of my college professors. What would you tell me?

Anyone else feel free to weigh in.

Yours under the heretical oaks,

Nathair /|\

That would be between you and God and as long as you can honestly answer the TR questions and still end up with a TR, but whatever goes on between you and God, stays between you and God.

[USU78]

Well, USU78, suppose you were my bishop and I told you I wanted to develop a mentor/student type relationship with Asherah, giving her the kind of respect I give you as my bishop or one of my college professors. What would you tell me?

Anyone else feel free to weigh in.

Yours under the heretical oaks,

Nathair /|\

{sigh}

Please stop it already with the threadjacking.

The issue is parallels between Nephite temples and ritual/cultic objects associated therewith and Solomon's pre-reform Temple and ritual/cultic objects associated therewith. Specifically possible parallels between the specific pre-reform objects, the Asherah and the Nehushtan, in Solomon's Temple and as yet unidentified ritual/cultic objects associated with the Nephite temples in Nephi and Zarahemla.

[Nathair/|\]

{sigh}

Please stop it already with the threadjacking.

The issue is parallels between Nephite temples and ritual/cultic objects associated therewith and Solomon's pre-reform Temple and ritual/cultic objects associated therewith. Specifically possible parallels between the specific pre-reform objects, the Asherah and the Nehushtan, in Solomon's Temple and as yet unidentified ritual/cultic objects associated with the Nephite temples in Nephi and Zarahemla.

Sorry, that wasn't my intent. I'm curious what you would say, as I have a vested interest in it, but I'll wait for another thread.

[USU78]

Sorry, that wasn't my intent. I'm curious what you would say, as I have a vested interest in it, but I'll wait for another thread.

Why not you do another thread? Or maybe a poll?

[Nathair/|\]

Why not you do another thread? Or maybe a poll?

I'm working on an essay reconciling polytheistic pagan cosmology with the cosmology presented in LDS scripture. The linchpin will be Psalms 82:6 and Abraham 3. When I get it done, I'll post it here, but I just got back on my antidepressants after not being able to afford them for a month and I'm not fully back to normal yet, so I'm a little behind.

[USU78]

I'm working on an essay reconciling polytheistic pagan cosmology with the cosmology presented in LDS scripture. The linchpin will be Psalms 82:6 and Abraham 3. When I get it done, I'll post it here, but I just got back on my antidepressants after not being able to afford them for a month and I'm not fully back to normal yet, so I'm a little behind.

Any movement on suggestions here?

[DonBradley]

Link to Bradley's transcript: http://www.fairlds.o...lost-116-pages

Bradley proposes parallels between the ancestral relics possessed by the Nephite Kings and the items kept in the Debir in Solomon's Temple. He also proposes that those Nephite Royal Relics were kept in the Temple in Nephi, and later taken and placed in the Temple in Zarahemla by Mosiah I.

Those parallels were:

Tablets of the Decalogue -> the Brass [bronze] Plates

Aaron's Rod & the Pot of Manna -> The Liahona

The Ephod with the Breastplate and Urim/Thummim -> The Breastplate and Interpreters

Goliath's Sword -> Laban's Sword

He does not mention two ritual objects kept in Solomon's Temple, but later removed and destroyed during the Josiahan Reformation: The Ashera and the Nehushtan, the sacred "Tree" of Yahweh's consort and the Brazen Serpent on a pole constructed by Moses to heal the people of snakebite.

I would like to propose parallels here as well:

As to the Ashera, I will speculate that the Nephi/Zarahemla Temples both had within them representations of the Sacred Tree. I think I am on defensible ground here: http://maxwellinstit...26&num=5&id=468, even though there is no obvious scriptural reference, other than Lehi's Dream, which is repeated twice in extant Nephite scripture . . . and was probably also listed in the now lost Book of Lehi. Did those two temples contain artistic representations of Lehi's Dream or of the World Tree? We can never know for certain, but it is reasonable to me that they would.

As for the Nehushtan, which means "the brazen/bronze thing," I propose the following: The Brass [bronze] Plates are made of the same substance and perform the same function. The Israelites were to "look and live," look at the Nehushtan and be healed. Alma 33:19, 37:46-47. Alma draws the parallel between the Brass Plates and the Nehushtan, between the Savior whose favor is gained by looking to His Holy Symbol and the scriptures which testify of Him.

Whaddya think?

 

 

Kind of a loooooong time to take in replying to this, I suppose, but I'd like to re-open this conversation.

 

When it originally occurred, the discussion got side-tracked by questions about the validity of divine Mother worship in ancient Israel, which was associated with both the brazen serpent/Nehushtan and the Asherah/sacred tree. But validity isn't the question the OP seeks to address, and isn't the question I'd like to address here. Rather, the question is, given that for centuries after Solomon built his temple, that temple housed Moses' brazen serpent/"Nehushtan" and the Asherah/sacred tree, what, if anything, in the Nephite temple--which was patterned on Solomon's--might have paralleled the brazen serpent and the Asherah/sacred tree?

 

I'm working up some thoughts right now on the brazen serpent--I think I can answer that one clearly. The Asherah, though, is trickier. (And this, of course, is also the one people are more reluctant about the validity of.) Daniel Peterson has raised some fascinating arguments that Nephi's vision alludes to the Asherah in his piece "Nephi and His Asherah": https://ojs.lib.byu.edu/spc/index.php/JBMRS/article/view/19903%C2'>

 

Don

[Tacenda]

Hi Don, just wanted to say that I saw you at the Hale Center theatre when Le Miserables was playing, and I was too chicken to say "hi".

[DonBradley]

Hi Don, just wanted to say that I saw you at the Hale Center theatre when Le Miserables was playing, and I was too chicken to say "hi".

 

Oh, well that's a shame, Tacenda. You would have also met the most amazing woman ever--whom I am now marrying!

 

Next time, go ahead and say "hi." I'm always interested in connecting IRL with my friends from online.

 

Don

[Kevin Christensen]

Kind of a loooooong time to take in replying to this, I suppose, but I'd like to re-open this conversation.

 

When it originally occurred, the discussion got side-tracked by questions about the validity of divine Mother worship in ancient Israel, which was associated with both the brazen serpent/Nehushtan and the Asherah/sacred tree. But validity isn't the question the OP seeks to address, and isn't the question I'd like to address here. Rather, the question is, given that for centuries after Solomon built his temple, that temple housed Moses' brazen serpent/"Nehushtan" and the Asherah/sacred tree, what, if anything, in the Nephite temple--which was patterned on Solomon's--might have paralleled the brazen serpent and the Asherah/sacred tree?

 

I'm working up some thoughts right now on the brazen serpent--I think I can answer that one clearly. The Asherah, though, is trickier. (And this, of course, is also the one people are more reluctant about the validity of.) Daniel Peterson has raised some fascinating arguments that Nephi's vision alludes to the Asherah in his piece "Nephi and His Asherah":

 

Don

From my essay in Glimpses Lehi's Jerusalem:

Barker explains that the ancient temple in Jerusalem was furnished so as to represent the Garden of Eden:

Descriptions of the temple, however, do suggest that it was Eden. Ezekiel described a temple built on a high mountain (Ezek. 40.2), whose courtyards were decorated with palm trees (Ezek. 40.31, 34). The interior was decorated with palm trees and cherubim (Ezek. 41.17ff.), and from the temple flowed a river which brought supernatural fertility (Ezek. 47.1–12). Ezekiel did not invent these Eden-like features; each is mentioned elsewhere in the Old Testament. The temple on a high mountain was the theme of Isa. 2.2–4 and Mic. 4.1–3; the righteous were described as the trees of the house of the Lord (Ps. 92.13), a metaphor which would have been pointless had there been no trees there; 1 Kings 6.29 described the palm trees, cherubim and flowers carved on the temple walls; and several prophets looked forward to the day when waters would flow from the temple (e.g. Zech. 14.8; Joel 3.18). Hezekiah had removed a bronze serpent from the temple (2 Kings 18.4),41 and the seven-branched candlestick, as we shall see presently, was remembered as the tree of life. Ezekiel, it seems, had a vision of a garden sanctuary like those known elsewhere in the ancient Near East, but it was also an accurate description of the temple he had known in Jerusalem.42

We do not have formal descriptions of the Book of Mormon temple furnishings. However, references to the fall of Adam and to Eden are explicit in several temple discourses. And the key imagery of the tree of life and the fountain of living waters appears in the visions of Lehi and Nephi. Lehi's discourse to his son Jacob in 2 Nephi 2 includes not only a discussion of Eden and the creation, but also the fall of Adam. Lehi mentions Jacob's own vision, the fallen angels, the atonement of the Messiah, the Holy One, and the coming judgment. These all show affinities with Barker's reconstruction and are apt considering Jacob's later role as a temple priest. Jacob 5 quotes at length the allegory of the olive tree, in which both the righteous and the wicked are described as trees, and which includes "harvest as judgment" themes that are conspicuous in Barker's view. Jeremiah, Nephi1, and Nephi2 allude to the bronze serpent story about Moses (Jeremiah 8:17–19;43 2 Nephi 25:20; Helaman 8:14–15). The temporary tents or tabernacles in the Mosiah account of Benjamin's discourse (Mosiah 2:6), besides functioning as reminders of Israel's wandering in the desert, may also bring to mind the palms that decorated the First Temple and also suggest Eden. "The temple was Eden and its rituals will have interacted with this fundamental belief about the creation. The temple itself, like Eden, was between heaven and earth with access to both the divine and material worlds."44 The 3 Nephi account of Jesus at the temple demonstrates, in a very literal fashion, the access to both the divine and material worlds.

The footnotes under this paragraph:

See Friedman, Who Wrote the Bible? 126. "Not only is Jeremiah the only prophet to refer to Shiloh and allude to Moses' bronze snake [Jeremiah 8:17–22]; he is the only prophet to refer to Samuel, the priest-prophet-judge who was the greatest figure in Shiloh's history."

Ibid., 102; see Donald W. Parry, "Garden of Eden: Prototype Sanctuary," in Temples of the Ancient World, ed. Donald W. Parry (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book and FARMS, 1994), 126–51.

See Sorenson, Nephite Culture and Society, 25–39. See also Steve St. Clair, "The Stick of Joseph: The Book of Mormon and the Literary Tradition of Northern Israel": "As described in the Bible, the southern kingdom had standard practices in regard to who held the priesthood: it was restricted to members of the tribe of Levi and specifically to descendants of Aaron, the brother of Moses. In the northern kingdom and the peoples descended from it, the picture was much more interesting, and more confusing. They accepted priesthood service by people who did not fit the southern pattern. . . . Priesthood practice among the Rechabites is most instructive as an example of northern Israelite views. When the Prophet Jeremiah, himself perhaps a descendant of northern Israelite priests, praised the covenant-keeping of the Rechabites shortly before the Babylonian captivity, he made them a striking promise in the name of the Lord: 'Jonadab, son of Rechab, shall never lack a man to stand before me.' To 'stand before the Lord' was a technical term with the specific meaning of serving as a priest, because the title 'priest' (Heb. cohen) is derived from a word meaning 'to stand upright.' . . . The Rechabites, then, were a group of functioning priests who had no traceable connection with the tribe of Levi or the ancestry of Aaron." Unpublished paper in author's possession. Compare Barker, Great High Priest, 122.

You might also want to read Alan Christenson, "The World Tree and Maya Mythology" from The Tree of Life: From Eden to Eternity" here (ahh which I see Jeremy has already recommended):

http://publications.maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/fullscreen/?pub=2318&index=8

Also this by Gordon Thomasson, on the symbols of Kingship:

http://publications.maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/fullscreen/?pub=1382&index=3

Best,

Kevin Christensen

Bethel Park, PA

Edited May 7, 2014 by Kevin Christensen